|
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 6, 2006 16:05:37 GMT -5
Do you think that fundamentalists who teach a 'perfect in christ' doctrine are false teachers?
yes or no. please explain why.
|
|
|
Post by evanschaible on Jun 6, 2006 19:21:47 GMT -5
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Matt. 5:48)
These are the words of my Lord.
"Finally brethren, farewell, Be perfect; Be of good comfort; be of one mind; live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you." (II Cor. 13:11)
The words of Paul as inspired by the Holy Ghost.
Shall I go on?
|
|
|
Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jun 6, 2006 22:51:11 GMT -5
If they mean "perfect in christ" in the sense that they no longer have the ability to sin. I would say yes.
Otherwise, no.
|
|
|
Post by biblethumper on Jun 7, 2006 7:35:52 GMT -5
The ones claiming Holiness Preachers are false are themselves the false wolves.... of course a wolf would cry "False Doctrine!" to Holiness
|
|
|
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 7, 2006 8:45:59 GMT -5
evan, you take things too literally. i am glad you are not a muslim. you would take passages of it and start killing non-believers.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Jun 7, 2006 9:20:29 GMT -5
Evan is correct. The ones who teach that we are perfect in Christ regardless of how we live our lives are false. The ones who teach that we are perfect in Christ because the grace of God empowers us to live a life of perfect obedience and holiness are correct.
So Dusty are you saying the quran teaches its followers to kill?
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 7, 2006 12:06:27 GMT -5
It says that just as much as the christian bible says that. So yes, it does.
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 7, 2006 12:07:48 GMT -5
This brings us to another point: Literal or figurative interpretation(sp?) of the bible. How do you choose? The bible should be clear, easy to follow, and the dumbest of the dumb should be able to get it's instructions easily. That is clearly not the case. WHy?
|
|
|
Post by tonyholland on Jun 7, 2006 12:19:17 GMT -5
Ok, you are so going to not like this answer, but.......... Who says it isn't? There are things that you have had trouble understanding (no offense, that could also be written, "don't believe") that have made perfect sense to me. To avoid the "trap" There are some parts of the Bible that are figurative speech and some parts that are literal, but all in all, the Bible is not understood only by reading, but by understanding given by the Holy Spirit. There are parts of the Bible that I read 100 times and it made no sense. I would pray and pray about it and then...boom at 101 it made perfect sense. That's a act of God, not that I suddenly grew smarter.
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 7, 2006 12:53:12 GMT -5
I can read a line of shakespeare, not get it for a year. But then, a year later, I read it, and it hits me like a brick.
But, why make part of the bible literal and part of the bible figurative?
|
|
|
Post by tonyholland on Jun 7, 2006 14:51:44 GMT -5
See, I knew you wouldn't like that. Here is what I think the difference is. You could not do that without any further study of Shakespere, or being exposed to anything which would influence your thought into understanding. I know, I've had the same blank looks with Shakespere Understanding the Bible, on the other hand, does happen without the other secular influences. Actually, and this is just my experience, it seems that the more I try to research and figure out in my head what parts of the Bible mean, the more confused I get. Understanding comes when I finally say, "God, I can't figure this out and I need your help." It always seems to be then that he "turns the lights on" for me. I think that is a great question. First, I should probably explain the what I mean when I say some is literal and some figurative. Parabels are the foremost thing that comes to mind when I think of parts of the Bible being figurative. These are stories told to better make a point. The stories are figurative as no claim is being made that they actually happened. This is the type of thing that I mean when I saw parts of figurative. You will find that most of the Bible is a account of something happening. I believe that those things are literal. The Great Flood, parting the Red Sea, the miracles, the healings....those things are literal accounts.
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 7, 2006 20:07:52 GMT -5
But as time goes on, you have further knowledge. Whether that time be 3 seconds or 3 years, you are still smarter than you were before.
|
|
|
Post by tonyholland on Jun 7, 2006 23:15:14 GMT -5
But as time goes on, you have further knowledge. Whether that time be 3 seconds or 3 years, you are still smarter than you were before. True enough.....but understanding the Bible isn't something that can happen with intellectual knowledge. This isn't to say that you can't understand what the words say, but to understand what they mean and be able to relate that to your life is something that requires the working of Holy Spirit....Head knowledge just won't do it.
|
|
|
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 8, 2006 7:06:43 GMT -5
atheistbibleburner, the 'holyspirit' trick that tonyholland pulled on you is the christian excuse to prevent secularists from reading the bible and using it against them.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Jun 8, 2006 9:33:26 GMT -5
Dusty and atheistbibleburner,
If you guys really believe the bible teaches us to kill as much as the quran then go and post your quran condemning comments on a fundamentalist muslim website. You obviously post on this Christian fundamentalist website without any fear of us because you know we would not come after you.
Do you think you would be able to do on a muslim fundamentalist website the same thing you do here? With personal information about where you live, etc?
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 8, 2006 11:42:56 GMT -5
You think I don't?
|
|
|
Post by tonyholland on Jun 8, 2006 12:47:21 GMT -5
atheistbibleburner, the 'holyspirit' trick that tonyholland pulled on you is the christian excuse to prevent secularists from reading the bible and using it against them. Dusty, I don't think that I have done anything thusfar to show that I am interested in playing tricks on any of you. I encourage secularists to read the Bible and will always do the best I can do answer questions stemming from that. Honestly, the Lord has not laid it on my heart to try to "convert" either one of you. I have been led to have a respectful and friendly dialoge with you guys concerning questions and challenges that you have to Christianity. If you will notice, I haven't gone out of my way to play the "I'm right, your wrong game" nor will I. I understand that you are pretty bitter towards Christians and have some type of axe to grind with some here, but I have no wish to argue with, fight, call names or anything like that. As a intellectual, I'm sure one of the things you enjoy doing is reasoning with others. That is all I am trying to do here.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Jun 8, 2006 13:14:44 GMT -5
I know you don't.
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 8, 2006 19:58:29 GMT -5
Umm... no you don't. When you assume you make an behind out of you.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Jun 9, 2006 7:59:47 GMT -5
It would be pretty easy for you to prove that you condemn the quran on muslim fundamentalist websites. Just post some evidence of it and I will apologize. I am sure you call yourself atheistquranburner on that website too right? Try that one.
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 9, 2006 10:11:04 GMT -5
A while ago I used to post here, www.ummah.net/forum/. That would be well over a year and a half ago though.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Jun 9, 2006 18:25:13 GMT -5
Show us some posts where you went on there and condemned the quran and called yourself atheistquranburner. Just giving us the location of an islamic website and saying you "used" to post on there about a year and a half ago is no proof.
Put up or all your talk about the bible teaching Christians to kill just like the quran does is pure hypocrisy on your part. If you can post some proof I will apologize for accusing you of being a hypocrite.
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 9, 2006 19:03:12 GMT -5
Well, seeing as how I haven't post( by the way, it was still atheistbibleburner) in over a year and a half, I have a slight predicament, don't I?
Call me what you will.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Jun 9, 2006 21:01:57 GMT -5
Oh wow, that would really make the muslims mad calling yourself a bible burner!
I have been posting on this website for almost a year and I can find my old posts.
Since you can't prove yourself why don't you tell us some of the things you used to post.
Until you can prove yourself I suppose I will call you hypocrite until you recant from saying that the bible teaches Christians to kill as much as the quran teaches muslims to kill.
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 9, 2006 23:02:02 GMT -5
Well, I didn't post things like "Muhammed didn't exist", because we KNOW muhammed did( i.e. he led an army into Mecca)
I talked about Jihad alot, but the people there were more liberal. I learned there. By the way, in a debate class of mine, everyone called me atheist bible burner because I pronounced myself as atheist, and mentioned a camping trip where of mine where we had to burn bibles to keep warm. That's why the name was, and will be, atheistbibleburner.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Jun 9, 2006 23:59:26 GMT -5
Sorry bibleburner, but you just admitted this website was liberal. Liberal muslims are not fundamentalists. You made the claim that you go on fundamentalist muslim websites and condemn the quran.
Now you are saying you went on a liberal muslim website and discussed things with them.
So you pretty much flat out lied, right?
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 10, 2006 0:04:46 GMT -5
I rest my case.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Jun 10, 2006 0:18:55 GMT -5
I love the way you changed the subject by telling me how you got your nickname.
Anyway, you lied by saying you go on fundamentalist muslim websites and condemn the quran. you don't and never have.
You also have been a hypocrite by saying the bible teaches Christians to kill the same way the quran teaches muslims to kill. You don't believe that, otherwise you would not be on this website making the statements you make. You would NEVER do those things on a muslim fundamentalist website. Go on there and call yourself atheistquranburner.
If you humble yourself and apologize for being a liar and a hypocrite I will let this whole thing go. What do you say?
|
|
|
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 10, 2006 0:37:05 GMT -5
You wanted me to be atheistkoranburner. I told you why I was not .
I have, but not to the extent I have condemned the bible. Why? I don't know the koran to that extent.
I'll do my level best to prove that to you. Lemme go through the bible first.
I told you why I didn't.
|
|
|
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 10, 2006 9:52:12 GMT -5
tony, i do not need any questions answered. you see, this is exactly what i am talking about. christians consider themselves superior to non-believers. the reason that i am agnostic is because i have read the bibles ten times over, and objectively. you will hear me condemn christianity, but i only condemn the tenets in which i consider to be dangerous to society--christian fundamentalism, or extremism. i have no problem with christianity, overall, its a beautiful faith with its own fair share of trials and tribulations.
tony, if you want to know why there are so many unbelievers in the world, look to christians. we examine your actions and we see [you] lacking in every walk of life (not you, specifically, christians in general). blame christianity for laws forbidding prayers in schools, etc., not satan or anyone else.
christians make christianity so repulsive that its a wonder that the religion still exists.
however, you are right, you are a nice guy and i apologize if you thought i offended you for it was not my intention to do so.
|
|