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Jun 21, 2006 17:07:00 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 21, 2006 17:07:00 GMT -5
God's word clearly states that man has chosen death and suffering by revolting against a holy, benevolent and very patient God. so, if we choose pain, suffering and death this would point to a god that refuses to reveal himself, so again, is this not his fault?
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Jun 21, 2006 17:21:11 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 21, 2006 17:21:11 GMT -5
Actually, adam chose to revolt >.>
If I was in that damn garden, talking to god, I wouldn't revolt.
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Jun 21, 2006 17:21:28 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 21, 2006 17:21:28 GMT -5
But I never got that chance; I'm paying for adam's sins.
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Jun 21, 2006 20:38:04 GMT -5
Post by Grant on Jun 21, 2006 20:38:04 GMT -5
But I never got that chance; I'm paying for adam's sins. Actually, you're not... You're going to be paying for your sins.
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Jun 21, 2006 20:39:12 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 21, 2006 20:39:12 GMT -5
I want to be in the garden, without sin. I was never given that chance.
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Jun 22, 2006 5:05:15 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 22, 2006 5:05:15 GMT -5
so, yeah, we're actually paying for adam's sins...and that is very unjust for a 'just' god.
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Jun 22, 2006 11:51:40 GMT -5
Post by Jules on Jun 22, 2006 11:51:40 GMT -5
your motivation in asking the question in the first place reveals your heart. you don't ask with the intetion of "this is nagging at me and if I can figure it out I will be converted andhave faith" If you truly were confused and seeking answers, we would be all over it. But what you sek is a debate. You seek to tear down the faith of others, not build up your own.
When and if you ask questions in a Spirit of humility - then will you get a response. Until then, your loaded questions (all of which certainly can be answered) seem a waste of time.
Now tell me, why do you ask the question? How does your view of God diminish as a result of not undersntading the answer? Your presence here has not indicated any form of seeking God or His ways. If I am wrong, please let me know. Because I would certainly, for the sake of your understanding the True God, attempt to answer your questions. But I don't feel the need to defend Him or His ways. He is God alone. We are not to defend God, merely make Him known.
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Jun 22, 2006 14:24:11 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 22, 2006 14:24:11 GMT -5
Damn right!
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Jun 22, 2006 14:30:39 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 22, 2006 14:30:39 GMT -5
Debates make you think; making you think is my goal.
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Jun 22, 2006 16:34:25 GMT -5
Post by cervyy on Jun 22, 2006 16:34:25 GMT -5
I asked because hearing you guys reply to others made me wonder as too that very question. And you proved me right. So because of that, I am even more pushed away from your God because he sounds a creature to br scorned, not worshiped. Every day I get the same feelingf rom your God, so now I seek the truth and hopegully make YOU see the truth as well. That YOUR God is a fraud.
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Jun 22, 2006 16:43:29 GMT -5
Post by Grant on Jun 22, 2006 16:43:29 GMT -5
Debates make you think; making you think is my goal. Many of us were once where you are in the way you think. I spent 28 years dreading "Christians" which I've stated a few times before. I loaded myself with pride trying to rip apart people's faith, and I was quite good at it, but not because I knew truth but because most of them were just luke warm and lacked a true conversion so their answers were anything but solid. I'm glad to say I haven't seen one "fundy" on these boards hindered at all by the abuse of the unbelievers here. In fact, our faith grows and He gets glory by our faithfulness and submission... praise GOD!
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Jun 22, 2006 16:46:55 GMT -5
Post by cervyy on Jun 22, 2006 16:46:55 GMT -5
You guys should feel lucky though, yours is the only religion or sect or denomincation, or ANYTHING, I've tried to rip apart. Never before have I had to stare Satan's disciples in the eyes before, it's really quite frightening thinking you're all out there corrupting people!
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Jun 22, 2006 23:08:13 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 22, 2006 23:08:13 GMT -5
they are frightening, but they will only accept it as a compliment, cervyy. i am not sure how negative connotations positively influence them unless they are bound by blood to a persecution complex.
they are right, and mistreated, therefore they have the right to do whatever they want.
i said this in another post, but whatever happened to the meaning of, "no?"
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Jun 22, 2006 23:11:23 GMT -5
Post by cervyy on Jun 22, 2006 23:11:23 GMT -5
What good does 'no' do when you're being raped by God's "message?"
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Jun 23, 2006 5:47:37 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 23, 2006 5:47:37 GMT -5
i suppose you just succumb to the brainwashing...
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Jun 23, 2006 8:25:21 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 23, 2006 8:25:21 GMT -5
What makes your specific sect of xianity right, as opposed to the thousands of others?
Like I said before,
What if god loves freethinkers and damns everyone who just blindly believes in the bible?
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Jun 23, 2006 18:59:00 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 23, 2006 18:59:00 GMT -5
i think this biblical phrase will answer your question, "slave in christ." this freedom you hear of in christianity is an illusion.
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Jun 24, 2006 11:35:16 GMT -5
Post by Jules on Jun 24, 2006 11:35:16 GMT -5
I told my brother in law once, who is an agnostic as well the following when he asked me the same question "Why does God allow suffering?" etc.
Ever heard the ol' saying "You can't have your cake and eat it too?" I think that applies here.
Suffering in its entirety is a result of sin, not God. He is not the author of sin.
Either God is a tyrant, and forces us to worship and obey him, thereby ridding the world of sin because we have no free will (which leads to sin) OR He allows us to choose for ourselves and thereby allows sin to also be present.
So, whic is it to be? No choice and no sin - or choice on your part and sin in the world, with the suffering that goes along with it?
because you can't have both. You can't have choice AND no sin. At least not until you are born again.
By giving up your will, you die to yourself as the Bible says. it is then and only then you are free from sin. Have I lost my free will as a Christian? Of course not. But there is liberty in Christ. And it is hard to explain unless you have experienced it.
So God is either a dictator, and we live free from sin in the world with no choice. OR he gives us the ability to choose, but must also permit sin and suffering.
The thing is, you picture God it seems as an evil dictator, and it repulses you. Your understanding of God rests on the fact that there is suffering and sin. Once you realize that God is a God of mercy, love, grace, AND holiness, you don't fear and get repulsed by His sovereignty. IN fact, you embrace it.
Does that make sense to you?
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Jun 25, 2006 1:40:23 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 25, 2006 1:40:23 GMT -5
no.
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Jun 25, 2006 13:36:48 GMT -5
Post by Jules on Jun 25, 2006 13:36:48 GMT -5
it's very simple HSTN. Either God is God, does what He wants, and forces you to worship him, thereby removing your free will - OR - He permits your free will and choice and doesn't force anything upon you. The first condition is free from sin, since all sin is rooted in our wills. The latter condition maintains the existence of sin (and therefore suffering and injustices in the world) because we have our free will, we must live with sin.
I don't know how to make it more simple than that. It sounds like you, along with most agnostics, wants to be free to choose and you will, but not have the consequences for sin. You aren't foolish enough to say that there is no God, but the thought of a sovereign God and the thought of sin and suffering result in you creating a god in your own image (i.e. preference) So you now have a GOd that "leaves you alone" and doesn't hold you accountable for your sin, but when you see sin, you blame Him, and not yourself.
Hm. We are a wicked people. God should send all of us to hell, but in His grace He doesn't. So, choose him, with the free will He gave you. Then you will have liberty IN CHRIST, live free from sin and suffering as the world understands it, and experience the fullness of who God really is.
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Jun 25, 2006 19:52:25 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 25, 2006 19:52:25 GMT -5
god created satan and is therefore omnisciently responsible for the fall, and therefore cannot be good.
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Jul 12, 2006 13:39:28 GMT -5
Post by oap001 on Jul 12, 2006 13:39:28 GMT -5
It was to serve God and also to bring Glory to Him. Is that true in your life?
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abb
Full Member
Posts: 163
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Jul 12, 2006 15:17:32 GMT -5
Post by abb on Jul 12, 2006 15:17:32 GMT -5
What...?
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Jul 12, 2006 18:44:30 GMT -5
Post by oap001 on Jul 12, 2006 18:44:30 GMT -5
Do your actions bring glory to God? Have you surrendered your will to Him..or do you do your own thing?
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abb
Full Member
Posts: 163
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Jul 12, 2006 18:57:02 GMT -5
Post by abb on Jul 12, 2006 18:57:02 GMT -5
Umm. I deny the existence of any and all supernatural beings...
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Jul 12, 2006 22:08:10 GMT -5
Post by oap001 on Jul 12, 2006 22:08:10 GMT -5
Umm. I deny the existence of any and all supernatural beings... So what's your story.
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abb
Full Member
Posts: 163
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Jul 12, 2006 22:25:18 GMT -5
Post by abb on Jul 12, 2006 22:25:18 GMT -5
Well, I'm an atheist... which automatically labels me as communist and a satan worshipper... but I am not either.
There is good in communism, but, the system fails because it does not anticipate human greed.
I have friends who I almost live to be with.... lovely girlfriend... what else do you want to know?
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Jul 12, 2006 23:16:02 GMT -5
Post by sequindaisies on Jul 12, 2006 23:16:02 GMT -5
Another Q for the "Christians" ... Why did God create everything? Why did he create animals, plants, people? You guys make it sound like we all were created only to obey God. Why would an all-powerful being need to create people to worship it, if He wasn't that perfect?? I eagerly await responses ... ;D Psalms 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
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Jul 13, 2006 10:21:01 GMT -5
Post by oap001 on Jul 13, 2006 10:21:01 GMT -5
Well, I'm an atheist... which automatically labels me as communist and a satan worshipper... but I am not either. There is good in communism, but, the system fails because it does not anticipate human greed. I have friends who I almost live to be with.... lovely girlfriend... what else do you want to know? Welll you believe the same things communists believe..being an atheist. As for devil worshiper...I would say the common cround you have there is unbelief. What made you so bitter?
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Jul 13, 2006 12:11:37 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jul 13, 2006 12:11:37 GMT -5
what is wrong with communism--like democratic-capitalism is so christianly?
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