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Post by swordsmith on Nov 17, 2007 18:31:53 GMT -5
Life by Principal or the Principal of Life
Many believers misapply a common phrase. The oft-repeated saying is that God desires to teach His children "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little". It is assumed that this is the normal God-ordained way a believers's life is built. Nothing could be further from the truth. One day, I became curious to look for where the phrase actually occurred and was I shocked at what I found. I think you will also. The phrase is from Isaiah 28:7-15. I trust you will agree that the context of a passage is vital to its interpretation.
In Isaiah 28:7-8 the Scripture describes the state of an apostate leadership in the strongest terms. God refers to His leaders, the preists and the prophets, as drunken and filled with their own vomit and filth-not a pretty or a positive picture.
In verse 9 He then makes a rhetorical statement, contextually refering to the priests. Bewailing their apostate condition, the prophet cries, "to whom then will the word of the Lord be revealed?" He rhetorically answers himself: those who are just weaned from the breast--babies. He then bemoans how their apostate condition has forced Him to talk to them: "precept upon precept... line upon line: here a little there a little" (Isa. 28:10)! At the very least, the implication is that if we are taught that way then we are in a state of babyhood, if not apostacy!That is hardly something a Christian shold emulate or model.
The Lord then goes on to make an amazing declaration explaining the reason for the judgment of having to speak to His people by "precept". He refers to the rest that He had for His people, but they would not com unto Him. God had a relational place of rest in His Person (see Heb. 3-4) that Israel of old opted not to pursue, but instead chose to live through adherence to principles.
In Isaiah 28:13 the prophet repeats himself for emphasis, bemoaning that God had to speak to them "precept upon precept... line upon line: here a little there a little," and then explains God's purpose in speaking such a way: so that His children would "go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken"! The purpose for preceptual instruction is so we will be exhausted from that type of instruction and return to His Person for rest and relationship! It is designed to cause us to fail. As long as we are successful living by precepts, our confidence will be in the will be in the precepts rather than the Person who upholds the precepts. If God is to reclaim His relational rest with us, He must destroy every other false foundation, indluding intellectual confidence in the precepts of His Word that keep us from a vital living relationship with Himself.
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Post by swordsmith on Nov 17, 2007 18:38:32 GMT -5
We see the thought again in Exodus 19 and 20, the account of Moses and the children of Israel at Mount SInai. God told Moses He wanted to talk to the people. He told the people to prepare themself and not to touch the mountain lest they die. Moses goes up the mountain, personally encounters God, and the people hear God's voice. Moses comes back down the mountain unharmed. However, even with Moses in front of them as proof, they confess that if someone hears the voice of God they will die. In lieu of personal relationship and engagement with the voice of God, Israel makes a fatal mistake with generational implication. They said, in essense, "Moses, you go talk to God. Find out for us what He wants, tell us what His precepts are, and we will do all you tell us to do--but we won't speak to Him lest we die."They repeat the oath and promise in Exodus 24.
What is the significance of this? First the Israelites distorted what God said and added to it. God said, "Dont touch the mountain or you will die." They said, "If we hear You, we will die." Likewise, legalists always distort and add to God's genuine requirements trying to be holier than what God is requiring at the moment. Second, Israel got God's requirement, the Law, without the benefit of personal interchange with His voice. Moses got the Person--they got the code. They swore themselves to an oath to which they could not hope to keep. There yet remains a rest for the people of God in relationship to His Person.
When I saw this, not a little of my Christian foundation was shaken, and yet I think it is clear. The center of the Old Covenant was Torah and Torah observance. The Old Covenant is characterized by relationship to a written code and the promise of a Person. The center of the New Covenant is Jesus and Calvary. The New Covenant is Characterized by realization of the promise and relationship to the Person revealed to us through the written Word and by the Spirit. THe outpouring of the Holy SPirit on the Day of Pentecost was a change in the cosmic order. Jesus said clearly that upon His ascencsion and glorification there would be a relational change. The relationship He had personally with the Father would be available to His disciples as a result of the Spirit's outpouring. (see John 20:17, Acts 1:8, Acts 2).
We must not reduce the New Covenant faith down to mental apprehension of New Testament facts ("my Scripture's better than your Scripture,etc") The letter does not characterize the order of this present age. The Spirit characterizes it. The Word reveals a person (see John 5:38-40). If we master the Word, but miss the Person, we have failed the grace of God and are living in an Old Covenant paradigm even though our "language" may be New Testament. We are not called to relate to precepts. We are called to relate to a Person who will impart His precepts to our hearts.
Someone who is living his or her Christian life by principle, rather than out of the principal of life, is manifesting a symptom of the deadly virus called legalism.
Silent Killers of Faith by Dr. Stephen Crosby overcoming legalism and perfomance based religion) pgs. 66-68
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Post by bondslavenchrist on Dec 9, 2007 13:48:27 GMT -5
Swordsmith,
Very good.
But let us take the whole things ONE MORE STEP!
The WORD IS a person. One we TRULY believe this, and LIVE by it, then EVERYTHING changes. We must HEAR the WORD to have true faith and that doesn't mean the Bible, but rather Jesus Christ Himself.
There is a song we all know. It goes>>>>
Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so. . .
But I submit that UNLESS and UNTIL we hear this from Jesus Himself, we do NOT have a proper relationship with the Lord at all, for Jesus Himself said that His sheep HEAR HIS VOICE!
Thus, we have the ultimate relationship where HE will make us ONE with Himself.
a bondslave in Christ Jesus, Dirk
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Post by homelesspreacher on Feb 7, 2008 7:21:52 GMT -5
I admit I like the idea of precept upon precept because in Jhn 1: 1 it says God "is" the word. I do not trust Christians or Nonchristians, so my only relationship w/ God right now is thru his word.
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Post by homelesspreacher on Feb 7, 2008 8:37:02 GMT -5
1 John 1: 4-7 4) that our joy may be "Full"! 7) if we "walk" in the light, not stand/sit..etc we (Have fellowship) one with another. help me out, somewhere els it says; that our "Love" may abound more & more (with knowledge? ) love is my driving force but if someone is not willing to obey the scripture then... 1 John 2:3-6 whoso "keepth" his word, in him verily is the "Love" of God perfected. as far as legalism goes, my Sabbath is 1 day in seven, that could be Sat "or" Sunday. Deut 29: 29 but those things that are "revealed" belong to us ( or me) that I may obey them.
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 7, 2008 8:55:00 GMT -5
Philippians 1:9 (9.) and this I pray, that your love yet more and more may abound in full knowledge, and all judgment,
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (16.) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
(17.) that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly equipped for all good works.
Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction, for Thy word hath quickened me.
Psalm 1:1-3 (1.) Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful;
(2.) but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on His law doth he meditate day and night.
(3.) And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither, and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psalm 119:9-11 (9.) How shall a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed thereto according to Thy word.
(10.) With my whole heart have I sought Thee; O let me not wander from Thy commandments!
(11.) Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against Thee.
Ephesians 5:25-27 (25.) Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
(26.) that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
(27.) that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.
John 17:16-17 (16.) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(17.) Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy Word is truth
John 15:3 (3.) Now ye are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you
Luke 24:45 (45.) Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures,
1 Peter 2:2 as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the Word, that ye may grow thereby,
Joshua 1:8-9 (8.) This Book of the Law shall not depart out of thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein. For then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
(9.) Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed, for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest."
John 14:23-24 (23.) Jesus answered and said unto him, "If a man love Me, he will keep My words; and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him and make Our abode with him.
(24.) He that loveth Me not, keepeth not My sayings. And the Word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.
James 1:21 (21.) Therefore lay apart all filthiness and the superfluity of wickedness, and receive with meekness the engrafted Word, which is able to save your souls.
Acts 17:10-12 (10.) And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea, who arriving there, went into the synagogue of the Jews.
(11.) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with allreadiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily to see whether those things were so.
(12.) Therefore many of them believed, also honorable women who were Greeks, and of men not a few.
In Christ Matt
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 7, 2008 9:08:09 GMT -5
Amen!
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