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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 29, 2008 9:14:29 GMT -5
In Ezekiel 33:1-9 as well as Ezekiel 3, God tells Ezekiel, the watchman, that if he doesn't warn Israel that God will hold him accountable. I don't think that these Scriptures make any sense in light of Calvinism. Calvinism teaches Monergism which basically says that man is passive in salvation and God is active. Man does nothing and God does everything. If that is true, then why would God hold Ezekiel accountable for not warning Israel. As a broader application, I believe that God holds Christians accountable for not warning people as well. When I have asked Calvinists in the past why they preach the Gospel if God is just going to save the elect anyway, they give me two reasons: 1) God commands them to and they want to be obedient 2) It is the means that God uses to save the lost. BUT, these two answers don't take care of the problem the Calvinists have in these passages in Ezekiel. Why does God hold man accountable if God does it all? Wouldn't God just raise up someone else to warn them instead. And is it really possible, from the Calvinists' point of view, that someone who would actually heed the warning die because they didn't hear the warning? Sounds like Ezekiel is promoting Synergism and NOT Monergism to me...
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Apr 29, 2008 11:54:16 GMT -5
When you really dig at the tough scab of tradition on Calvanism it reveals an infected, bloody mess of contradiction. It's ironic that all the while adherents to Calvanism, in regards to the issue of evangelism, will claim obedience to God, it's the foundation for DISobedience - at the least apathy.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 29, 2008 12:38:05 GMT -5
If God causes everything, then man causes nothing, so why are men accountable for anything?
For sinners, how can they be accountable for being sinners? It is not their fault, they were born that way, they cannot help it, they are totally unable.
For lukewarm Christians, how can they be accountable for being lukewarm? God has eternally decreed that they should be such, and they are incapable of going contrary to God's eternal decree.
And for heretics, how can they be accountable for believing heresy? God eternally decreed that they would believe such, and eternally decreed that they would not believe the truth.
Whoever is the cause of an event must be accountable or responsible for that event. So if man is responsible and accountable, it must be because man is the cause of it or the author of it.
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Post by abraham on May 11, 2008 18:14:05 GMT -5
Ezekiel 3 and 33 does not teach that we are the ones who raise the dead sinners to life. It warns us of the sin of murder. If we do not warn them, it shows that we truly do not love them, and that we really don't care that they are in bondage to sin and on their way to eternal hell.
I do believe this passage warns us of the sin of hatred and murder. However, I used to hold the belief that it was my fault that many souls ended up in hell because it says their blood shall be upon my hands if I don't warn them. My logic went like this:
1. I could have preach the gospel to them.
2. There are many that would have repented if only I preached to them.
3. There are many that I could preach to today that will die and go to hell today.
4. Therefore, if I don't preach to everyone that I could possibly warn today, it is my fault they go to hell... because perhaps they would have repented if only I warned them.
5. How many could I warn today? 10, 50, 100, 1000, 5000? If I could warn atleast 100 people today... and I don't, that means when I lay my head down to sleep tonight. I am gulity of murdering 100 people. And for all we know perhaps I am guilty of murdering 5000 people today. near 150,000 will die today? Couldn't I warn some of them. If I don't and they go to hell... it is my fault because perhaps they would have repented.
6. If I leave out one soul that i could have warned everyday of my life, then I'm murdering one person a day.
7. If I could warn 5000 souls eeveryday and I warn 4999 everday, I am murdering 1 soul a day by not warning him. Because, perhaps he would have repented if only I warned him.
If you believe as I once did, that the passage teaches that it is your fault that souls go to hell and you do not warn absolutley the exact amount of souls that you are able to warn today... you are a murderer today and you will be a murderer everyday as long as you leave out one soul that you failed to warn. it is also your fault that perhaps 1000 of 1000 of souls are in hell that would have repented if only you warned them. Think about that! Can you see their faces in hell right now. Perhaps near 10,000 (for some of us) are in hell because we did not warn them.
Think about this my friends.
When you go to the grocery store or any other place where popele are all around you... how many people could you warn? If you leave one out. you are a murderer and if they die and go to hell that day it is your fault because perhaps they would have repented.
Please do not misunderstand me. We ought to warn all and every sinner that we possibly can because we love God and our neighbor. We also are guilty of murder for not warning every sinner that God has called us to warn.
I now believe what the bible teaches about God's Electing grace. Salvation is of the Lord. I am stired to evangelize, because I have many lost brothers and sisters in this world and they don't know their Father! They don't know that a decree was made by God to save them by the death of God's Son. They don't know that blood was shed for them. Every person I meet is a potential brother or sister in Christ. God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy and it is not up to me to decide whom God elects. I am to warn and pray for all men because the love of Christ compels me. I am greatly blessed to be a part of saving souls for the glory of God!
Read the prophets. You'll find that over and over again God declares that he will save a people through out the whole world. Rev. 5:9 shall come to pass and it does not depend upon the will and running of man. Salvation is of the LORD. Amen. -Abraham
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