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Post by colton_latta on May 8, 2008 14:36:31 GMT -5
"The doctrine of justification itself, as preached by an Arminian, is nothing but the doctrine of salvation by works..." - Charles Spurgeon
"I do not serve the god of the Arminians at all; I have nothing to do with him, and I do not bow down before the Baal they have set up; he is not my God, nor shall he ever be; I fear him not, nor tremble at his presence...The God that saith today and denieth tomorrow, that justifieth today and condemns the next...is no relation to my God in the least degree. He may be a relation of Ashtaroth or Baal, but Jehovah never was or can be his name." -Charles Spurgeon
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 8, 2008 16:05:27 GMT -5
Spurgeon was a very intelligent man, and I believe a Godly man. One of the "Calvinists that are good," as opposed to a "good Calvinist"
At the time of his second quote he may not have had the revelation that God does not just arbitrarily "justify one day and condemn the next..." But changes his plans upon how men are using their free will. He isn't changing his mind willy-nilly, upon every whim and fancy - that would make Him as evil a being as the calvinist idea of God.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 8, 2008 17:21:03 GMT -5
"I do not serve the god of the Calvinists at all; I have nothing to do with him, and I do not bow down before the Baal they have set up; he is not my God, nor shall he ever be; I fear him not, nor tremble at his presence...The God that wants to save so few and takes pleasure in the condemnation of so many, who decrees man's sin and then punishes him for it, who shoves man down and then punishes him for falling, who took away free will and then punishes disobedience, who forms men in the womb as sinners and then burns them eternally for being sinners...is no relation to my God in the least degree. He may be a relation of Ashtaroth or Baal, but Jehovah never was or can be his name." - Jesse Morrell
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Post by colton_latta on May 16, 2008 16:51:12 GMT -5
Jesse, Do you think Charles Spurgeon was a heretic?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 16, 2008 18:11:01 GMT -5
I think that even the elect can be deceived.
Do you think that Charles Finney was a heretic?
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Post by colton_latta on May 17, 2008 14:29:45 GMT -5
honestly i havent read much by Charles Finney i think one book on Revival. I just hear what other people say about him so i am in no position to call him anything. I dont want to be one of those people who read one article on the internet and think they know everything about a person
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Post by messengermicah on May 17, 2008 14:59:07 GMT -5
Is Spurgeon saying all non Calvinists are heretics?
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Post by Kerrigan on May 17, 2008 21:14:27 GMT -5
Is Spurgeon saying all non Calvinists are heretics? If he was, he was definitely in for a BIG Surprise when he died. I'm sure that all the apostles straightened him out...
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 19, 2008 8:27:44 GMT -5
I'm imagining Spurgeon sitting there beside the Streets of Gold. Holding his head in his hand, joyous that He's in the Heavenly side of eternity, but glum over the things he believed while on earth.
The Apostle Paul sitting next to him, throws a friendly arm around his shoulders. "There there, Charlie." "But I believed and wrote about so many things that I'm just learning NOW were way off! There must be so many here that don't like me." Spurgeon woefully cries. Paul replies, "Perish the thought! We're all so glad you're here... but... ... about those cigars..."
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Post by messengermicah on May 19, 2008 18:29:22 GMT -5
I certainly do not agree with Spurgeon's doctrine or Calvinism but I would be careful about the above statement.
I think we are all going to find out we did not know as much as we thought when we get to heaven.
We are all seeing through a glass darkly now (1 Corinthians 13).
I also think we are probably going to have some disappointment that we did not accomplish more than we did.
There is a greater price we can all pay, greater sacrifice, etc.
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Post by messengermicah on May 19, 2008 18:30:11 GMT -5
I am still waiting on a response from cotton latta on whether or not Spurgeon is saying anyone who was not a Calvinist was a heretic.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 20, 2008 9:24:23 GMT -5
Just to clarify... I was just being humorous. I agree, Micah - we all will realize we didn't know as much as we think we do.
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Post by colton_latta on May 21, 2008 17:53:11 GMT -5
Is Spurgeon saying all non Calvinists are heretics? No he is not saying that all non calvinist are heretics he said "The doctrine of justification itself, as preached by an Arminian, is nothing but the doctrine of salvation by works..." "I do not serve the god of the Arminians at all; I have nothing to do with him, and I do not bow down before the Baal they have set up; he is not my God, nor shall he ever be; I fear him not, nor tremble at his presence...The God that saith today and denieth tomorrow, that justifieth today and condemns the next...is no relation to my God in the least degree. He may be a relation of Ashtaroth or Baal, but Jehovah never was or can be his name." Listen to what he said in his Defense of calvinism www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm"There is no soul living who holds more firmly to the doctrines of grace than I do, and if any man asks me whether I am ashamed to be called a Calvinist, I answer—I wish to be called nothing but a Christian; but if you ask me, do I hold the doctrinal views which were held by John Calvin, I reply, I do in the main hold them, and rejoice to avow it. But far be it from me even to imagine that Zion contains none but Calvinistic Christians within her walls, or that there are none saved who do not hold our views. Most atrocious things have been spoken about the character and spiritual condition of John Wesley, the modern prince of Arminians. I can only say concerning him that, while I detest many of the doctrines which he preached, yet for the man himself I have a reverence second to no Wesleyan; and if there were wanted two apostles to be added to the number of the twelve, I do not believe that there could be found two men more fit to be so added than George Whitefield and John Wesley. The character of John Wesley stands beyond all imputation for self-sacrifice, zeal, holiness, and communion with God; he lived far above the ordinary level of common Christians, and was one "of whom the world was not worthy." I believe there are multitudes of men who cannot see these truths, or, at least, cannot see them in the way in which we put them, who nevertheless have received Christ as their Saviour, and are as dear to the heart of the God of grace as the soundest Calvinist in or out of Heaven."
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forevidence
New Member
Our God is a Consuming Fire!
Posts: 13
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Post by forevidence on May 21, 2008 23:25:31 GMT -5
"Legal repentance is a fear of d**ning: evangelical repentance is a fear of sinning."
-Charles H. Spurgeon
Can u believe Spurgeon said this?
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Post by messengermicah on May 22, 2008 12:18:24 GMT -5
So what do we call a person who preaches heresy?
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Post by messengermicah on May 22, 2008 12:19:47 GMT -5
I understand you were just being humorous but I think we need to be very careful about joking about things like that.
I am not trying to give you a hard time though.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 22, 2008 12:42:16 GMT -5
I read a Spurgeon quote where he said that Calvinism was the Gospel, and so if you are not preaching Calvinism you are not preaching the Gospel.
Logically it follows then, that if Calvinism it the Gospel, and you do not believe in Calvinism, then you do not believe in the Gospel.
And if you do not believe in the Gospel (Calvinism) then you are not saved!
As eloquent as Spurgeon was, his theology was way off.
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Post by joeldad on May 22, 2008 12:57:15 GMT -5
Found it: "I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."Here's the source: www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 22, 2008 13:12:49 GMT -5
When I got saved, I never even heard of the 5 points of Calvinism, let alone believe them.
Interestingly enough, Spurgeon was saved by listening to a Wesleyan-Arminian, a Methodist Preacher!
So apparently, the preacher who lead Spurgeon to the Lord did not, according to Spurgeon, believe or preach the Gospel! So apparently Spurgeon was converted under "another Gospel" since he was not converted under Calvinism.
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forevidence
New Member
Our God is a Consuming Fire!
Posts: 13
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Post by forevidence on May 22, 2008 23:39:08 GMT -5
When I got saved, I never even heard of the 5 points of Calvinism, let alone believe them. Interestingly enough, Spurgeon was saved by listening to a Wesleyan-Arminian, a Methodist Preacher! So apparently, the preacher who lead Spurgeon to the Lord did not, according to Spurgeon, believe or preach the Gospel! So apparently Spurgeon was converted under "another Gospel" since he was not converted under Calvinism. ahahahah that is so funny! I think it is ironic....
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