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Smocked
Jun 16, 2008 21:01:31 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 16, 2008 21:01:31 GMT -5
And who then is your neighbor?
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Smocked
Jun 16, 2008 21:15:13 GMT -5
Post by tbxi on Jun 16, 2008 21:15:13 GMT -5
Everyone
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Smocked
Jun 17, 2008 7:39:44 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 17, 2008 7:39:44 GMT -5
Everyone, huh? Interesting. Judging from some of your posts we are indeed dealing with a different or new and improved T Rex and all I can say is good for you and glad of it. If everyone is truly seen as your neighbor, then it is a good start, if truly felt.
If you listen to some of the street preachers on u tube (and I will be first to admit this may not be a fair reflection for them as you tend to just get sections instead of a big picture) and some fot heir posts, which are even more arrogant than well, my own, and you have to wonder how many of them share this neighborly philosophy
I could care less about this Smock guy. The thing is there seems to be two distinct philosophies here. Smock , with those who back him and those who go with the Patriot/T Rex outlook. You both can't be right, so which is it?
AS those stuipid bumper stickers say, WWJD!
.
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Smocked
Jun 17, 2008 13:52:32 GMT -5
Post by tbxi on Jun 17, 2008 13:52:32 GMT -5
Good question Dale - pay attention to the theology forum for that one.
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Smocked
Jun 17, 2008 15:22:47 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 17, 2008 15:22:47 GMT -5
I am really gonna go out on a limb here and let you all answer it.
So am I reading this right between the lines. What The Patriot and T Rex are saying pretty much is Jesse, Micah, McGlown and anyone else who agrees with this Smock guy and maybe even this Smock himself are reaching false doctrine? Would this not then not make them Christians, but false teachers themselves?
Seems like a heavy accusation to make, if I am picking up what you seem to imply but will not come right up and say.
I don't like McGlown because of the way he popped off on a different post, but that is neither here nor there in regard to this situation. I think Jesse hilariously entertaining as a street preacher , though he does not intend to be. He, Micah and the others have a screw loose I think, but I would not jump to call them false teachers or intentionally misleading people too freely. I never heard Smock preach. I only visited the web page once and that was enough for me. He did not offend me as much as he bored me.
These can be heavy duty accusations if I am reading them right.
Am I?
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Smocked
Jun 17, 2008 15:52:22 GMT -5
Post by tbxi on Jun 17, 2008 15:52:22 GMT -5
They are heavy duty accusations and I do not make them lightly. But it is clear that the two are different gospels. Paul makes it very clear that it is a big deal:
Galatians 1:
6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
"Accursed" means damned, basically.
There is no way for you to really understand which one is correct or why, unless you read those threads, and have a significant familiarity with Scripture. Even then, there would be no point in you becoming involved in that debate, unless you were a Christian yourself. But yes, there are heavily disagreeing "camps" within Christendom (I think it's extremely questionable as to whether they are in Christendom, I'm leaning towards "no", but I must be careful with this).
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Smocked
Jun 17, 2008 16:29:56 GMT -5
Post by debonnaire on Jun 17, 2008 16:29:56 GMT -5
Yep, we can speak of ourselves, or of our theology, or our experience. There is nothing wrong with that at times , but...
Why not exalting God's righteousness instead ?
Isaiah 5:15-17 15 So man will be brought low and mankind humbled, the eyes of the arrogant humbled. 16 But the LORD Almighty will be exalted by his justice, and the holy God will show himself holy by his righteousness.
Psalm 40:16 But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation always say, "The LORD be exalted!"
1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
John12:31-33 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
All those who believe (in their heart) in Jesus and in what he has done at the Cross are justified of what they could not be justified by their own righteousness.
and after ?
John 12:35-36 Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going. Put your trust in the light while you have it, so that you may become sons of light."
It is not about trying not to sin, it is about turning our heart constantly to Jesus for He is the Light of the world and His word is a lamp. When i do that i stand, when i don't i may fall. The Lord has been lifted up at the Cross, let Him be exalted in our heart.
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Smocked
Jun 17, 2008 19:36:35 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 17, 2008 19:36:35 GMT -5
I am sitting iut on the heavier theological issues of this argument and logging on comments ion this thread mainly to ask for clarification of what I read, as the heavier theological issues of this are not my strong point. It would be like you trying to debate the fundamentals of wild west history , foreign film,w riting novels, the fundamentals of bullfighting or other elements where I hold the high cards and you do not. Knock yourselves out.
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Smocked
Jun 19, 2008 12:04:19 GMT -5
Post by art on Jun 19, 2008 12:04:19 GMT -5
It is funny that the loudest of street ranters all claim they do this out of love, then spew hatred like a volcano. While they claim to hate the mockers as they call them, they are mockers themselves in their words and deeds. They bring the contempt and anger from the audience upon themselves, not for their imagined ability to confront and convict people of sin, but by their arrogance, their own name calling, their own accusations and their own ignorant statements. For any one weak minded individual they might be able to make feel guilty and convert to their warped way of thinking, there are hundreds who will forever be turned away from Christianity because of the ignorant way it is portrayed by street ranters. That might not be a bad thing, so I will not say I want to stop you after all. You will not make more Christians with your tactics. You will make more atheists and that will be a good thing. By all means, keep it up. I will not want to stop you any more. You are the best thing atheism could have going for it. I never thought of that until now.
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Smocked
Jun 20, 2008 2:29:53 GMT -5
Post by bullhornbob on Jun 20, 2008 2:29:53 GMT -5
I just love it when these opinion based christians spew out all of this greasy grace doctrine without one single biblical reference.
OBC's - Opinion Based christians. They make our job so much more difficult on the streets and campuses.
By the way art, if the Bible contradicts your position, and I hold the Bible as my standard, it is not hate for me to voice the biblical position.
Disagreement does not equal hate. This is a common tactic of homosexuals and neo-evangelicals to take the focus off of the Bible and pit the listeners against the preacher.
God demands obedience to His word, and this is true love, to obey Him (I John 5:3).
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Smocked
Jun 20, 2008 7:04:15 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 20, 2008 7:04:15 GMT -5
What's an opinion based Christian?
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Smocked
Jun 20, 2008 17:51:14 GMT -5
Post by art on Jun 20, 2008 17:51:14 GMT -5
Thanks a load Bullhorn. Your name fits. Reconifrms what I suspected.
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Smocked
Jun 21, 2008 1:54:52 GMT -5
Post by bullhornbob on Jun 21, 2008 1:54:52 GMT -5
Yeah, the truth hurts, doesn't it?
Reconfirms what everybody has known all along; art is lost and on his way to hell.
Repent before it's too late, art.
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Smocked
Jun 21, 2008 2:00:06 GMT -5
Post by bullhornbob on Jun 21, 2008 2:00:06 GMT -5
An OBC is someone whose christianity is founded on anything but Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible.
Most believe something someone told them, like a pastor, a televangelist, or a friend, but is found nowhere in scripture.
True Christians put faith in Christ and live by the Bible, not the opinions of men.
Hence the term:
O - pinion B - ased C - hristian
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Smocked
Jun 21, 2008 7:03:11 GMT -5
Post by art on Jun 21, 2008 7:03:11 GMT -5
No, Bullhorn, the truth does NOT hurt, because it is NOT the truth that you speak, but it is hilarious..
I also love the way you and the others can put yourself above your nonexistant God, take his place and actually determine who is going to hell and who is not. Didn't your fictional Satan try to do the same thing?
On the same hand, pretending the Christian rule book is truth though it is not, let me ask this one and play your own game. You all believe in what Smock says, I take it? Smock is a false teacher teaching doctrine that is not in the bible, such as his idea a christian can live sinlessly. That makes you one of these OBC types and a false prophet yourself.
You preach a false doctrine. Your deeds are just filthy rags before the Lord. Repent. Turn from your own sin. Take the log from of your eye before removing the speck in mine.
And by all means, please CALL me a fool.
I love it and I note you stayed clear of the other thread where I challenged the ranters to make their case and win me over. No interest in really winning me to God, but just making noise to hear yourself rant and make yourself look good in your clique and your own eyes, huh?
Again, thanks. You prove my case.
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Smocked
Jun 21, 2008 16:55:37 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 21, 2008 16:55:37 GMT -5
Don't go this route with them as I have done so myself repeatedly. You see, when you persecute them or challenge them TOO MUCH, they relish it as they feel like they are suffering for righteousness or something . Rather than angering or upsetting them, it just makes them all the more determined. In their minds I think they think you are helping them get brownie points for heaven. Take a different approach than what you are doing when you deal with these guys.m The mroe you mock the guy openly, the more ground you will give him and the preachier he will become. If you don;t want this, just shut up! If you do, however, hey, so be it.
PS. Hey Patriot, hey T-Rex are you Opinion Based Christians? I think the Bullhorn guy is talking you two more than me or the other nonchristian,
You all fight it out. This Bullhorn here I never heard of before today. He's no concern to me unless he chooses to make it otherwise.
I will just sit back and watch.
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Smocked
Jun 21, 2008 17:16:06 GMT -5
Post by art on Jun 21, 2008 17:16:06 GMT -5
Nah, let him go. I love listening to this selfrighteous, judgmental hot air. At first it offended me, then I found it pathetic and now I am just amazed by it all. Let them all keep going. I don't listen to false teachers anyway, to use their own words against them, so what do I care what they say! If there ever was a case for false teaching, then these street ranters are it. If gell is real , they will be right there with me. The only thing is, it is NOT real.
Let him try to make his case. the thing is, aside from the usual "You are on your way to hell" he cannot make a case because there is no case to be made.
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Smocked
Jun 21, 2008 17:49:51 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 21, 2008 17:49:51 GMT -5
Suit yourself
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Smocked
Jun 21, 2008 21:34:12 GMT -5
Post by brobreaud on Jun 21, 2008 21:34:12 GMT -5
I took the log out (repented of homosexuality) of my eye in March 1994. I know how unhappy, unsatisfying and unfulfilling of a lifestyle it is. I lived it until I was 34 years old. Now I can help others with their speck.
I am glad someone did not stop at Matthew 7:1 but read through to verse 5! That's the point! If I was still living in homosexuality, it would be hypocritical of me to preach against it.
Judging is calling something right or wrong. So if, according to your own beliefs, you think it's wrong to judge; you are a hypocrite when you say, "You're WRONG for judging!", for that IS a judgment. You're doing what you think it's wrong to do.
Jesus said, "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment." John 7:24
Declaring what is wrong to be wrong is not wrong, nor is it hate; it is love, the Bible way! "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the Lord." Lev. 19:17-18
The idea of "love thy neighbor" is directly connected with "rebuke thy neighbor...not suffer (allow) sin upon him".
Brobreaud
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Smocked
Jun 21, 2008 23:11:58 GMT -5
Post by art on Jun 21, 2008 23:11:58 GMT -5
But I love to sin. I am proud of my sin. Sin is wonderful.
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Smocked
Jun 22, 2008 6:20:10 GMT -5
Post by thunder on Jun 22, 2008 6:20:10 GMT -5
There are many things wrong with Smock and those who imitate the man.
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Smocked
Jun 22, 2008 14:42:29 GMT -5
Post by brobreaud on Jun 22, 2008 14:42:29 GMT -5
Art, so do homosexuals...that is why the events are called gay PRIDE.
"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: PRIDE, and arrogancy, and the evil way, DO I HATE." Proverbs 8:13 (emphasis added)
Brobreaud
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Smocked
Jun 22, 2008 17:41:32 GMT -5
Post by art on Jun 22, 2008 17:41:32 GMT -5
I will have to read the Bible just to find out new and betetr ways to be bad. It might be a great guide after all.
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Smocked
Jun 24, 2008 11:02:35 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 24, 2008 11:02:35 GMT -5
Is this Smock guy a member of the message board? Why does he not come here and answer all this himself?
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Smocked
Jun 24, 2008 13:14:25 GMT -5
Post by tbxi on Jun 24, 2008 13:14:25 GMT -5
I don't believe he is. He has a board of his own.
There is no simple "answer this". Jed would simply be taking place in the debate that has always raged here ever since a few members started going toward his sort of theology.
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Smocked
Jun 24, 2008 22:14:36 GMT -5
Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 24, 2008 22:14:36 GMT -5
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Smocked
Jun 25, 2008 8:04:31 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 25, 2008 8:04:31 GMT -5
This is Smock, is it? (I only went to his page one time and wouldn't recognize him if he was next to me on a plane ). Didn't notice before but he looks strikingly like Jack Pakance in his Mr Hyde makeup from the 1968 Dan Cyrtus version of Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde. So Jesse not only took his style, but his "Jesus wants you" point from this guy too?
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Smocked
Jun 25, 2008 14:58:34 GMT -5
Post by debonnaire on Jun 25, 2008 14:58:34 GMT -5
I beg to differ but Jesse points a finger from his right hand :] but yes the chap looks a bit like some of these actors in these Western movies It would be to his own advantage to wear a stetson he could do a good Wiley Gavins :] (only kidding) ;D
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Smocked
Jun 25, 2008 15:18:41 GMT -5
Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 25, 2008 15:18:41 GMT -5
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Smocked
Jun 25, 2008 18:26:17 GMT -5
Post by dale on Jun 25, 2008 18:26:17 GMT -5
Yeah , he does kind of have that kind of Wiley Garvin look. The Frenchman is right (Epitaph by Dale Pierce, coming in August on http://www./lulu.com), though right now only he and I know what I am talking about.
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