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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 9, 2008 13:12:19 GMT -5
The Power of Choice - Zac P. www.cfcindia.net/tbsaudio/25_Basic_Christian_Teachings/03_The_Power_Of_Choice.mp3After listening to this message, I am convinced that Zac believes in "Moral Government, Open Theism". This whole message though is full of moral government open theism. Listen to these quotes and tell me if you don't see what I see: "God gave man a free will" "In order to be holy, man need to make a choice... temptation was necessary" "Innocence is what you see in a baby. But if that baby is to grow up to be a man of character, it has to make choices" (babies are not evil or good, they are innocent) "If people around you are better, it is because they've made better choices. And if people around you are evil, it is because the choices they have made are evil." (free choice, not original sin) "God took a risk" (that's straight up open theism). Saying that God wanted men who could voluntarily obey Him... And especially his emphasis on selfishness, or a man seeking to gratify himself. And how God gave us desires which can be gratified lawfully or unlawfully.
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Post by Kerrigan on Jun 9, 2008 15:37:08 GMT -5
Interesting. I will have to take a listen to this...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 9, 2008 15:48:44 GMT -5
He may or may not believe in "moral government/open theism" in name, I don't know, but he certainly does believe in it in principle.
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Post by Kerrigan on Jun 9, 2008 16:25:22 GMT -5
That was shorter than I thought. It was good though. Not sure about the Open Theism part, but he definitely seems like a Moral Government guy. I wonder if he believes in a Moral Government view of the atonement...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 9, 2008 16:34:47 GMT -5
I don't see how he could say "God took a risk" by giving us free will, because of the "possibility" that we would sin, if he is not an Open Theist. If God knew we were going to sin, it was not a "possibility" and God did not take a "risk". "God took a risk" is an Open Theist line, which YWAM particularly uses. There is even a book on Open Theism called "The God Who Risks".
Regarding the atonement, he does not believe in the governmental view. I just listened to a short teaching of his on the atonement, which was basically "we broke the law, and Jesus paid our fine".
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Post by Kerrigan on Jun 9, 2008 17:08:57 GMT -5
I don't see how he could say "God took a risk" by giving us free will, because of the "possibility" that we would sin, if he is not an Open Theist. If God knew we were going to sin, it was not a "possibility" and God did not take a "risk". "God took a risk" is an Open Theist line, which YWAM particularly uses. There is even a book on Open Theism called "The God Who Risks". Regarding the atonement, he does not believe in the governmental view. I just listened to a short teaching of his on the atonement, which was basically "we broke the law, and Jesus paid our fine". That stinks regarding the atonement. The open theist thing is normal though. There are probably many non-Calvinists who would say what Zac said without calling themselves an "Open Theist"...although they and Zac may be one in practice.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 13, 2008 18:41:53 GMT -5
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