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Post by jackjackson on Jul 16, 2008 15:39:39 GMT -5
As I was read this week, I found a passage that could really help us all. We find ourselves constantly talking about which doctrine is right and which is wrong.
I have often asked God "Why such confusion on doctrine?"
Wouldn't it be great if God could just define for us what "Good Doctrine" is?
Guess what, He gave us a definition of Good Doctrine:
Proverbs 4:2
"For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my Torah (law # 8451 - torah)."
Please note that I used the Hebrew word for the last word to make the point I have been trying to make on many posts.
Do any of you think God changed His mind on what Good Doctrine is? That is did God change?
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Post by logic on Jul 17, 2008 11:43:16 GMT -5
As I was read this week, I found a passage that could really help us all. We find ourselves constantly talking about which doctrine is right and which is wrong. I have often asked God "Why such confusion on doctrine?" Wouldn't it be great if God could just define for us what "Good Doctrine" is? Guess what, He gave us a definition of Good Doctrine: Proverbs 4:2 "For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my Torah (law # 8451 - torah)." The Torah is most commonly refers to the text of the Five Books of Moses or Pentateuch. However, the New testement is the Old Testement interpreted by the Authors of the New. We must interprate the new correctly, in order to have correct doctrine, one must do this without presupposisions, bias, and with sincerity. The reason for bad doctrine is that many do the opposit of this.
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Post by jackjackson on Jul 17, 2008 11:52:57 GMT -5
The NT is the interpretation of the OT; yet the NT cannot contradict the OT or else it would not be true. Therefore, whe our interpretations of the NT writers seems to annul the OT Scripture, we know there is nothing incorrect with the OT, so the problem is on our end in what we think the NT is saying.
For instance, in this passage I use, since God says that that the Torah is Good Doctrine, just as He said of His creation that it as good; and gives clear easy to understand command to "forsake ye not the Torah"; why then do most evangelicals say it is OK to forsake it?
None of the Apostles or Jesus ever forsook the Torah, did they?
If they did, tell me where.
If they didn't, why does the Church today forsake it? Was God wrong?
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Post by logic on Jul 17, 2008 13:00:39 GMT -5
None of the Apostles or Jesus ever forsook the Torah, did they? If they did, tell me where. If they didn't, why does the Church today forsake it? Was God wrong? No where does is say to farsake the law! I guess people think that since we are no longer under law, but grace(Rom 6:14-15), they take that to mean Christ done away with the Torah. However, For Christ is the end [deliverance, completion, conclusion] of the law for righteousness [sake] to everyone believing (Rom 10:4). None the less, we are not to be lawless, we must stay with-in the bounds of the "Law of Christ"(1Co 9:21, Gal 6:2) which is love. Another word for the "law of Christ" it the "spirit of the law"
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Post by jackjackson on Jul 17, 2008 15:55:12 GMT -5
Romans 10:4 uses Telos as the Greek word meaning end. Now unless a teloscope puts a conclusion, or delivers you from sight, it means to magnify.
Is. 42:21 says Jesus will manify the torah, and make it more honrable.
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Post by logic on Jul 17, 2008 16:10:41 GMT -5
Romans 10:4 uses Telos as the Greek word meaning end. Now unless a teloscope puts a conclusion, or delivers you from sight, it means to magnify. Is. 42:21 says Jesus will manify the torah, and make it more honrable. Actually tel escope brings ones view closer to the object that is wied. teloscope - Tele + Scpope: Tele = over a distance Scope = View The Greek word for "end" is not tele, but telo. Telo = to set out for a definite point or goal; properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination)
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Post by jackjackson on Jul 23, 2008 12:21:58 GMT -5
Many roots in languages such as Latin and Greek are spelled slightly different in the other language. Websters 1828 is wher I saw the definition of telescope and that it as a root word from the Greek. The point is the word in Romans 10:4 does not mean put an end to, or do away with. If that was what Paul had intended he would have used the word used in Romans 3:31 translated "make void" or #2673 "katargeo". If Romans 10:4 had meant put and end to, he would have complete contradicted that he said faith established the Torah in Romans 3:31.
God knew a new believer would be taught Good Doctrine every week in synogogues (Acts 15:21) as every other believer did. Paul in 2 Tim. 3:15-17 lays out this learning Timothy had got since a child was "able to thee wise unto salvation (like Psalm 19:7) through faith which is in Christ Jesus. The Scriptures are all designed to be lived out by us who are of the faith of Jesus.
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Post by jackjackson on Jul 24, 2008 18:08:37 GMT -5
Many on the Board believe we must obey God, and that if we don't we can loose salvation; so I was thinking the difference then may be how long our lists are.
Some people obey 2 Great Commands;
Some people will add 10 Commandments;
Some just obey the commands they in the NT;
But shouldn't we obey all of God's commands, especially when a new command never annuls an old one? (Gal 3:17)
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jul 24, 2008 18:17:30 GMT -5
Telos means end or finish. Of course it doesn't mean make void, it means to finish. A telescope is a scope that you can see the "end" with. Telos does NOT mean to amplify. You are pushing way to much into if you believe that.
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Post by jackjackson on Jul 25, 2008 16:59:27 GMT -5
The thread is not concerning telos it is concerning "Good Doctrine", will anyone comment on the passage at hand? Was this verse formerly true, that is before Jesus came, or is it always true, even now?
When someone asks us in the maze of doctrines "Could anyone please tell me what God says is Good Doctrine?" Should we just say "Of course, do not forsake His Torah!"
The problem is how can anyone who has forsaken the torah (I dare say almost everyone on this Board and 99% of those who call themselves Christians) tell another "Forsake ye not His Torah"?
Is this verse no longer true?
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