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Post by art on Jul 21, 2008 10:24:39 GMT -5
If America really was founded on Christian ideals, by and for Christians alone, that may be one reason to say the founding fathers were absolute idiots and thankfully latter generations had the common sense to over-rule them, changing with the times.
The USA does not need to be an nation based on Christian ideals, by and for Chrristians. The USA needs to be a nation based common sense and you do not find that in the Bible.
Who cares what the founding fathers thought or wanted. They are not around any longer and I am glad for that.
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kenm
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Post by kenm on Jul 21, 2008 21:10:43 GMT -5
That is easy for you to say because of the blood that was shed and is still shed to give you that right and freedom.
That blood was shed so you can enjoy freedom but Jesus shed His blood so you can be free from sin.
Americas blessing has come from the founding faith in God, and as we turn further from Him we will face the same judgment as nations in the past.
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Post by art on Jul 22, 2008 6:48:29 GMT -5
Get off the soap box. July 4th passed already.
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kenm
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Post by kenm on Jul 22, 2008 7:50:11 GMT -5
I wonder if you could say that so easily to someone that has lost a son or daughter, mother or father, husband or wife while fighting for the country you enjoy living in so much.
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Post by dale on Jul 22, 2008 10:20:03 GMT -5
The kid just doesn't get it. Let's try again.
Fine, you hate Christians and I hate street preachers. I am against most everything they stand for, just as they are against most things sinners stand for. No debate there.
The Christians HAVE to be allowed to express their viewpoints, be it about homosexuality, the USA being a supposed "Christian nation", abortion, dirty movies, whatever AND the sinners need to have the right in turn to counterpunch or speak out against their beliefs in favor of the same. We dont all have to be friends and we do not have to agree with each other, BUT the way this country works WE BOTH have to have the right to voice such opinions and take stands.
Let's say the government ir the counrt room silences the street preachers . This opens a dnagerous doro way. Wgo dot hey silence next? Anti war protesters, gun rights protestors, abortion ro anti abortion rpotestors, civil rights groups, what? Once the ball starts rolling, it does not stop.
To disagree with or even hate the street "ranter" as you put it is your right. In fact , it is our right. BUT you counter them by counterpunching with your views and not by silencing them and throwing things at them on the streetcorners..
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Post by art on Jul 23, 2008 5:48:48 GMT -5
You don't see it yourself. The Christians would love nothing better than to be able to turn this country into a theocracy where like in the Spanish Inquisition you either have to embrace the faith or leave. What did this one guy say about America being intended for freedom of religion...IF you worshipped the Christian God. What kind fo freedom is that and if that is what the founding fathers truly itnended, they were a pack of fools, bigger than than any street ranter. If this was true, then fortunately people in generations to come saw this as insanity and changed it, just as we did with slavery, banning women from voting and other lame things accepted at the time due to ignorance, but later revealed to be moronic.
The founding fathers were a bunch of selfserving politicians just like we see today. Do not idiolize them, do not think of them as wonderful when they were not and as for God inspired, how can you be inspired by something that is not even there?
If they could get by with changing the uSA do, you think the people here would afford you the same tolerance you give them? They would try to make this country a theocracy with laws that follow the Canadian ranter's stuipid sign and are you a monster test and you would be forced to obey these lies. Do you think for one minute if they could get by with it, they would allow any opposition, physical or vocal to christianity? They would turn this country into a slave nation for Jesus.
Streetpreachers need to be arrested and banned. They disturb the peace and preach hatred. If they ahd their way, anyone not a fundamentalist Christian woudl have no right to free speech. They would turn the world into a living cartoion show like you see on Boomerrang where you can do nothing but praise Jesus and only for Jesus.
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kenm
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Post by kenm on Jul 23, 2008 8:10:43 GMT -5
The only hatred preached is the hatred God has toward sin. I did not say that you should worship God or leave what I said is this country was originally founded on that freedom and people have distorted that. Did I say that it was not a persons right? No God wants people to have a freedom to choose it is called FREE WILL If God wanted to force you to him you would be and you would not be ranting against preachers. That is what makes this country great is that I have the freedom to share the truth and you have the freedom to share lies. We can disagree all day long but that does not mean you should lose your right nor I should lose mine.
I think what Art was saying (not to put words in his mouth) was that any freedom attacked or taken away opens the door for other freedoms to be attacked and taken away.
The first thing taken you may be in favor of like no street preaching, but what if they do not stop there and then they say you can't protest the government or speak openly about the president, where would it stop once it started.
So you may be against what they have to say but you can not be against the freedom they use to do it under.
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Post by debonnaire on Jul 23, 2008 10:24:01 GMT -5
Some of the USA fathers were christians , some were deists and others free-masons.
USA is not a Christian nation , has never been and never will be, (until Jesus returns) , although it has been influenced by precepts of the bible.
I like Dale's post. Art has a point though, for truly some Christians leaders dream to take this nation of USA under their rule, and other nations as well, they are what is called "dominionists" and don't believe Jesus can return until they have took over the nations in His name (thanks God it is only a minority of these nuts).
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Post by art on Jul 24, 2008 6:01:10 GMT -5
If America is a Christian nation then that is why it has gradually reached the sorry state it is now because the founding fathers made their trust and beliefs in a god that does not exist and like all to follow, might as well have been making sacrifices under an eclipse of the moon. If the all mighty founding fathers wanted a theocracy, tough for them as the people today do not want this, no one in their right mind wants this and the very thought of such needs to be changed.
Thinking people do not want one nation under God and want that out of the pledge too. We do not need to be one nation under God. We need to be one nationf ree from the god that is a myth.
You are the ones sharing the biggest lie of all, not me. You all contend it is not possible to prove there is no god by your standards, this is the evidence there is one. You base your life on a book that is nothing but fantasy, myth and poorly written poetry. You are the ones who believe the lie and condemn all those who do not swallow the fantasy. There is far more evidence there is no god as opposed to evidence there is.
Your great mythical god gives people free will. The choice to kiss up at him or burn? This is not free will, but blackmail. Your mythical god uses fear to force worship of him. Some free will. I am glad this absurd object or worship of yours is a myth.
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