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Post by jackjackson on Jul 23, 2008 12:46:25 GMT -5
Whosover commiteth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4
As I have studied out this passage in the Greek, it is really an amazing short verse.
First, please realize that the word translated as sin is the word #266 "Harmartia" in Greek. This word is a noun, not a verb, which is very important distintion because it is not referring to the individual acts of disobedience (like a lie, or stealing something) but speaks to the nature of a wrong way of living.
Strongs defines the word as "missing the true goal and scope of life".
The group of words "transgresseth*also*the*law" as well as "transgression*of*the*law" are one Greek word #458 "anomia". There are several words in the Greek with the same root. Anomia is a noun, #459 anomos is an adjective, and #460 anomos is an adverb.
These all have a similar meaning as expressed in Strongs, namely not subject to the Jewish laws (torah). This has the meaning of being opposed to them or at enmity to them.
This is certainly how Paul defined the carnal man (leading to death) in Romans 8:6-9 when he says the carnal man is not subject to (that is not willing to obey) the law (#3551 "nomos").
Now I have already in several post shown clearly that when the Hebrew word #8451 "torah" is quoted in a passage in the NT Greek, it is always translated "nomos". Look this up yourself please so you will find I am not making this up.
So when we read "nomos" in the NT, you might as well write "torah" next to it and realize they are speaking about the Laws of Moses (books 1-5).
Conclusion:
So let us look at 1 John 3:4 again.
"Whosever committeth harmartia is anomia: for harmartia is anomia." kj mixed with Greek
Or again:
Whosoever is not subject to the torah is missing the true goal and scope of life: for missing the true goal and scope of life is to be at enmity with God's torah. (1 John 3:4 jjv)
jjv - Jack Jackson version based on Strongs definitions
Maybe this is why God says:
I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my Torah. Proverbs 4:2
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Post by pete777 on Jul 24, 2008 0:58:13 GMT -5
Torah? Sin is a transgression of the torah? Is that what you are saying? The true aim of life is to be obedient to the Ten Commandments! For all the TORAH, and the LAW, and the prophets, and the words of Jesus Christ and the WHOLE Word of God are summed up in the Ten C's. By spiritualizing away the issue of obedience to law, to missing the true aim of life one must ask; what is the true aim of life? Answer: obedience to the Ten Commandments, (Matthew 19:17). Therefore, the translation is correct, sin is breaking the Ten Commandments! If you are breaking the Ten Commandments you are in effect missing out on the true aim of life, which is salvation from sin!
We are only able to obey the law as the Holy Spirit empowers us by freeing our "WILL" so we can choose to obey! Our obedience is then the product of the working power of the Holy Spirit! Not our works! But the work that God does in us to bring us into "WILLING" obedience of MORAL LAW as prompted by Biblical love.
Sin is a lack of the above process! But the end result of sin is TEN COMMANDMENT BREAKING!!!!!!! The Torah is just the spiritual principles of the law summerized in many places! Moses' laws were shadows of what Christ was to do! The sacrifical laws are ABOLISHED! THey are gone! They do not exist! We are not to kill lambs! That would be an abomination in the sight of God! It would slander the cross!
Matthew
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Post by pete777 on Jul 24, 2008 1:00:10 GMT -5
Does anyone think we are supposed to sacrifice lambs today???
Matthew
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Post by jackjackson on Jul 24, 2008 17:49:20 GMT -5
Oh Matthew, please calm your nerves.
If sin isn't breaking a command of God, what is it?
If it is not of your free will, who's fault is it?
If obedience is only capable if God empowers you, you really aren't repenting, you are being rebooted.
I am not talking of only the 10 Commandments, I am talking about obeying all of God's commandments.
James 4:17 tells us that knowing what to do which is good and not doing it is sin.
God tells us in Proverbs 4:2 doctrine which He says is good: foraking not His Torah.
So please take this up with God since I didn't write His Bible.
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Post by jackjackson on Jul 28, 2008 12:49:46 GMT -5
Any comments?
Jesse, my brother, you have been very quiet on these posts I have made.
I would value your thought, even if in PM.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jul 28, 2008 14:57:34 GMT -5
I would say that all of the moral law is summed up in the word love. Love is the law. We are under obligation to love God supremely and love our neighbor equally.
As far as other "laws" in the Bible, such as the dietary laws, the ceremonial laws, and Israels governmental laws, Christians are not under any sort of obligation. Especially not Gentile Christians. There is liberty in Jesus Christ.
The only moral obligation that Christians are under is obligation to the moral law. And the moral law is the law of love.
Antinomianism is when a person says that Christians are not under obligation to the moral law of love. Legalism is when a person says that a Christian is under obligation to the Old Testament dietary, ceremonial, and Israel's governmental laws. We must not become antinomians but we also must not become legalists.
For example, it is OK for me to eat bacon, shrimp, and lobster. Praise God!
"... commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received, with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim 4:3-5
Another example of the liberty found in the New Testament is that you do not have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (dietary, ceremonial, governmental laws).
"Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with wors, subverting your souls, saying ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment" Acts 15:24
So Gentile believers do not need to keep the Jewish laws. Christians are to obey the law of Christ. We are not obligated to obey the dietary laws, the ceremonial laws, or the governmental laws which were given to the nation of Israel. We are obligated to obey the law of Christ, to obey the moral law, which is the law of love.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jul 28, 2008 17:43:49 GMT -5
I would say that all of the moral law is summed up in the word love. Love is the law. We are under obligation to love God supremely and love our neighbor equally. As far as other "laws" in the Bible, such as the dietary laws, the ceremonial laws, and Israels governmental laws, Christians are not under any sort of obligation. Especially not Gentile Christians. There is liberty in Jesus Christ. The only moral obligation that Christians are under is obligation to the moral law. And the moral law is the law of love. Antinomianism is when a person says that Christians are not under obligation to the moral law of love. Legalism is when a person says that a Christian is under obligation to the Old Testament dietary, ceremonial, and Israel's governmental laws. We must not become antinomians but we also must not become legalists. For example, it is OK for me to eat bacon, shrimp, and lobster. Praise God! "... commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received, with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim 4:3-5 Another example of the liberty found in the New Testament is that you do not have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (dietary, ceremonial, governmental laws). "Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with wors, subverting your souls, saying ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment" Acts 15:24 So Gentile believers do not need to keep the Jewish laws. Christians are to obey the law of Christ. We are not obligated to obey the dietary laws, the ceremonial laws, or the governmental laws which were given to the nation of Israel. We are obligated to obey the law of Christ, to obey the moral law, which is the law of love. Amen. This seem so plain in the NT.
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Post by jackjackson on Jul 30, 2008 16:17:13 GMT -5
But where does the Bible make a distinction between what is moral and what is ceremonial?
Who decides this?
Is it not moral to just obey God?
Those before the flood were plant eaters, they ate no meat. If God had intended us to eat pork, why not have 7 pairs of these animals on the ark?
That passage isn't giving men license to disobey God.
Are we so shallow we think God was punishing the Jews with the Torah, keeping them from bacon and shrimp?
Numbers 15:15-16 clearly teaches 1 set of laws, whether Jews or strangers among them (#1616 "ger").
The verse you give in Acts must be understood in context. Misguided Jewish believer were setting up initiation ceremonies and telling people until these were done, they were not acceptable to Christ. It was not a license to not obey what was taught in Scripture.
If the Jesus came with a "law of Christ" which was different from Moses teachings, the commands we not listen to Him, according to passages in Deut. 13 and 18.
Just because all 613 Mosaic laws are not re-stated, doesn't means they are not in affect.
For instance, if beastiality is not mentioned in the NT is it OK? Some might see that practice as a religious ceremony, so are they breaking ceremonial laws, or also moral. If they do it and bring judgement on the nation they are in, shouldn't it be a Civil offense also?
If I love God, shouldn't I be willing to submit to all His commands in scripture?
If you discovered your position was wrong, would you love God enough to just stop eating "unclean foods"?
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