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Post by Evan Schaible on Aug 20, 2008 3:52:42 GMT -5
With the blatant resurgence of what is commonly called Calvinism, I wanted to share a few thoughts that many people overlook or simply ignore. 1. The inconsistency of the Calvinist and his view of the sovereignty of God. Many Calvinists will claim they believe in the complete and total sovereignty of God, and yet they are some of the most worried people in the world. One may argue that they have more light than grace, which is ironically exactly the point. The knowledge that the determinist boasts of is in fact, in the last analysis, his downfall. He relishes in his deterministic theology and yet frets about the present crises in his life. If it were true, that every stubbed toe, every hammer that descends crashingly down upon a thumb, and every rape and murder is ordained of God, what a monster we serve. I wonder how consistent a Calvinist would be in the face of a heinous crime being committed against one of his family members? Would he in fact, as the heathen do, blame God? Does the raped woman have her God to blame, or a deranged criminal? Does the abortion clinic have a right to say they are doing the work of the Lord? Only in the Calvinistic worldview. Can I say this resurgence of heresy is ordained of God, or should I say as Jesus did that many will come in the last days and spew venomous lies with a pretense of truth? Ironically the Calvinist will say that anyone believing otherwise is heretical and should be hanged until they are dead, but then they are fighting against the God who ordained their heresy... what a horrible twisted web of confusion. 2. The tragic and damning doctrine of defeatist unholiness. The consistent Calvinist will unashamedly tell a sinner that he is saved by grace alone, through faith alone, omitting the small word that so characterized the ministry of Jesus: repent. This is perhaps the greatest of the horrors of Calvinism as it has undoubtedly sent millions upon multiplied millions of souls to hell. Jesus has not one jot or tittle of toleration for the man claiming to be saved from sin, and yet allowing sin to reign over him. Holiness is the mantra of God's people, but hellishness is the mantra of the Calvinist. Oh the poor man caught in the trap of sin, hopeless to find freedom because he was scooped up by a modern day pharisee. Clean as a whistle on the outside, the Calvinist will herald from the housetops his inner corruption, almost as if he were boasting. Was this not the very accusation of Jesus against the religious hypocrites of His day? And yet, for some reason unknown to me, the Calvinist boasts in his hypocrisy as if it were a badge received for some great achievement. Sick sight it is to see a man yearning for freedom from the burden of sin, only to find that he is caught in a theological system of self justification that leaves him writhing in the grip of death. The carnality of the consistent Calvinist is horrifying, and it is justified with slick theological phrases and cliches, these men are heralded as the "great men" of God. What more can we say concerning this system of theological death? A system that perpetrates a God that damns men for no reason other than he arbitrarily decided to. A system that boasts of a schizophrenic god that both desires all men to be saved, and yet shoot himself in the foot by sending his son to die for but a few! A system that treats god as if he were an object of collegiate educational fancy, rather than an object of deep love and surrender. These are but a few of the many, many drops of cyanide in the pure water of truth. Oh that the church would open her eyes and see that this theology is a theology of spiritual suicide. Repent and do the first works. Salvation is present and free, full and for all, and it can be yours if you yield to the God of the Bible. - Evan Schaible ApostolicHeritage.org
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djpray
Junior Member
"Filipino" Preacher Man!
Posts: 86
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Post by djpray on Aug 20, 2008 19:26:39 GMT -5
Evan, On your web site "links" you have the following: Christian Living Sermon Index Go There >> Sermon Index is a ministry dedicated to the preservation of vintage sermons from great men of the past like Leonard Ravenhill, A. W. Tozer, Art Katz, Paris Reidhead; and the present like Paul Washer, Keith daniel and Denny Kenaston. Be sure and browse in the sermons and articles, as well as the discussion forums. You mention Paul Washer there. Why would you mention someone like Paul Washer who is a clear 5 Point Calvinist? And you consider him a "great man." It seems to me that if you are so strongly against Calvinism....then why would you include a Calvinist on your links and consider him a great man of God? Just wondering..... Derek
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Post by Evan Schaible on Aug 20, 2008 20:23:55 GMT -5
Derek,
Paul Washer is what I consider a "inconsistent Calvinist" as he preaches the baptism of the Holy Spirit and holiness. Also his marriage teachings are wonderful. I try to not write off a preacher simply because of his theology, but I do write off the theology. You wont hear Washer preaching as does Piper, that he can sin tomorrow with no worries. Rather Washer will preach that if you have a sin in your life, persisted in and allowed, you are not saved.
Anyhow, that is why. I do not endorse some of his teachings. But others are wonderful.
- Evan
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Post by prespilot68 on Aug 21, 2008 19:14:10 GMT -5
And yet, for some reason unknown to me, the Calvinist boasts in his hypocrisy as if it were a badge received for some great achievement. This is so indeed true. I hear this all the time whereby men will brag "Oh I am but a sinner saved by grace"! As if this is some badge of honor. No, this is a person striving for a false sense of humility! Whenever, I hear someone say this I almost feel like asking them "Really!? What's your sin problem friend??" "Pornography?, Lust?, Lying?, Adultery? Pedophilia?"
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 21, 2008 19:50:02 GMT -5
And yet, for some reason unknown to me, the Calvinist boasts in his hypocrisy as if it were a badge received for some great achievement. This is so indeed true. I hear this all the time whereby men will brag "Oh I am but a sinner saved by grace"! As if this is some badge of honor. No, this is a person striving for a false sense of humility! Whenever, I hear someone say this I almost feel like asking them "Really!? What's your sin problem friend??" "Pornography?, Lust?, Lying?, Adultery? Pedophilia?" Amen brothers! My thoughts exactly...
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Post by colton_latta on Aug 21, 2008 20:27:26 GMT -5
even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; (1 Timothy 1:13)
and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 1:14)
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. (1 Timothy 1:15)
Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. (1 Timothy 1:16)
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Aug 21, 2008 21:52:28 GMT -5
Colton,
Indeed, Paul was a blessed example of humility...
But in light of other scripture... Is Paul saying that he is presently "a sinner saved by grace?"
Or is he testifying that he was a wretch of wretches, but Christ delivered him?
I believe the latter. I don't think Paul would exhort the Church so much on holiness, only to turn right around and say, "but I'm just a miserable sinner so thank God for His grace."
Don't get me wrong - we were all wicked rebels. But to tout that you are still a sinner while at the same time boasting of Christ is at the least not very thought through... at the worst: hypocrisy.
From one former rebel to another, you brought up good scriptures though! ;D
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 21, 2008 21:56:26 GMT -5
Paul said that he had a conscience VOID of offense.
That doesn't sound like a person who sinned "every day in word, thought, and deed" as the Westminster Catechism teaches.
Paul said that a leader in the Church needed to be BLAMELESS. Was Paul a hypocrite or was Paul blameless?
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Post by colton_latta on Aug 22, 2008 19:38:01 GMT -5
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. (Romans 7:18)
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Galatians 2:20)
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Post by colton_latta on Aug 22, 2008 19:42:04 GMT -5
I am not giving anyone a license to sin. But in Titus and Timothy where it says that a bishop should be blameless, that doesnt mean that a bishop is going to be perfect. What this means is to be above reproach.
For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, (Titus 1:7)
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Post by Evan Schaible on Aug 23, 2008 3:30:57 GMT -5
Another horror of Calvinism is its intrinsic trait of making men totally heady with not a jot or tittle of heart. Calvinism is based upon unregenerate men and their carnal thinking. Many of the same people who would utterly decry an unregenerate man trying to interpret the Bible, are the very men who are holding fast to an unregenerate theology. Murderers and liars, thieves and persecutors are the men who first thought up the horrible lies found in Calvin's five points.
The head knowledge can be found by any unregenerate, unholy man. Unholy men are given the freedom to boast in their unholiness; and proud men are given the freedom to vaunt themselves up with a so called knowledge of the holy, but they are blinded to the fact that the wholly lack knowledge. It is a horrific tragedy when a man can be deemed a spiritual man simply because he says "uh-huh" to five points of doctrine. He can live a worldly lifestyle and be justified in the sight of his peers simply because Calvin's five points teach he can live wicked and still name the name of Christ.
Heart experience is what is needed in this tragic hour of heady, high minded and theologically misguided men. Oh for a man that is not afraid to proclaim the salvation of God as a transformation of heart, and not a tickling of the intellect. We wait for it, and we wait for it expectantly, as it is this world's only hope.
- Evan
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Post by logic on Aug 23, 2008 12:36:49 GMT -5
Another horror of Calvinism is ...ect... How bout the vanity of it all? They say everything is determind. That must include sin. we're all worthless pawns in a game of solitare as God plays, watching it all unwinde with no intervening. God must only come in on que as a part of a grand oprah, scripted and set. All sin was suposed to be. God can not answer prayer, because He can not interviene in his grand scheme of things that was all, completely settled BEFORE the foundation of the world.. No mater how much we pray, God will not hear us, because He already made HIS mind up. All is futile. The man who rapes another man's wife was suposed to rape her, God ordains women to be raped BEFORE the foundation of the world. The son who comitts suicide was suposed to do that, God ordains men to kill themselves BEFORE the foundation of the world. The daughter who was brutily murdered was suposed happen, God ordains all sin BEFORE the foundation of the world. Why pray at all, because all the lucky ones will be saved no matter what. Do you think your contributing anything worth while by preaching, praying, and witnessing? You only do it cause your commanded to, but there is NO OTHER REASON. It's all futile!!! We pray by order, not from Love. Like obeying your boss as he orders you to keep pressing a worthless button which does nothing, Futile. This is TOTALY The Horrors of Calvinism.
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Post by Evan Schaible on Aug 23, 2008 13:29:35 GMT -5
Another horror of Calvinism is ...ect... How bout the vanity of it all? They say everything is determind. That must include sin. we're all worthless pawns in a game of solitare as God plays, watching it all unwinde with no intervening. God must only come in on que as a part of a grand oprah, scripted and set. All sin was suposed to be. God can not answer prayer, because He can not interviene in his grand scheme of things that was all, completely settled BEFORE the foundation of the world.. No mater how much we pray, God will not hear us, because He already made HIS mind up. All is futile. The man who rapes another man's wife was suposed to rape her, God ordains women to be raped BEFORE the foundation of the world. The son who comitts suicide was suposed to do that, God ordains men to kill themselves BEFORE the foundation of the world. The daughter who was brutily murdered was suposed happen, God ordains all sin BEFORE the foundation of the world. Why pray at all, because all the lucky ones will be saved no matter what. Do you think your contributing anything worth while by preaching, praying, and witnessing? You only do it cause your commanded to, but there is NO OTHER REASON. It's all futile!!! We pray by order, not from Love. Like obeying your boss as he orders you to keep pressing a worthless button which does nothing, Futile. This is TOTALY The Horrors of Calvinism. AMEN. The more I talk to Calvinists, and then my subsequent Bible reading, the more I see the fact that Calvin, and his 5 points are the bane of church history. Oh that men would flee these lies. - Evan
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Post by colton_latta on Aug 23, 2008 15:35:54 GMT -5
Calvin wasn't the one who formed the 5 points.
"Another horror of Calvinism is its intrinsic trait of making men totally heady with not a jot or tittle of heart"
So you would really say about William Carrey, Charles Spurgeon, George Whitefield who had a heart for God's glory and for the lost.
"Oh for a man that is not afraid to proclaim the salvation of God as a transformation of heart"
That is the very heart of the doctrines of grace. That God by His grace gives us a new heart. That we were once enemies of God and now we are friends. We were dead and now we are alive. We were slaves and now we are free. It is now are obligation and privilege to preach the Gospel to every creature .
For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? (Romans 10:14)
And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" (Romans 10:15)
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" (Romans 10:16)
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17)
Paul Said Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (2 Timothy 2:10)
There are alot of calvinists who are prideful about there head knowledge. But this isn't only found in the theology of calvinism.
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Post by mattmisk on Aug 23, 2008 16:25:55 GMT -5
Good post Evan.
What makes me the saddest is that once a person gets entrenched in Calvinism, they lose their sense of morality, of right of and wrong, of what love is! They are unable to discern that a god who sends most men to hell, when he could have changed their hearts and made them holy, is not a loving god. The typical response from a Calvinist is, "God defines what love is, therefore even if he chose to send all men to hell for no reason, that is loving." Bogus. We all know perfectly well what it means to be loving, and the Calvinist god is not loving. Do you notice how, at this attack, the Calvinist does not stand up and say, "Yes, God IS loving for sending most men to hell!" No, on the other hand, the Calvinist must retreat behind their "hidden will", "cannot question God", and "his ways are not our ways" defenses. Is it just coincidental that the last line of defense for the Calvinist is the same argument used by cult leaders and can be used to justify any false doctrine?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 23, 2008 18:10:00 GMT -5
A major problem I have seen is the bitterness, hostility, and lack of love Calvinists often show towards those who disagree with, challenge, or question their theology.
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Post by prespilot68 on Aug 24, 2008 22:52:14 GMT -5
So you would really say about William Carrey, Charles Spurgeon, George Whitefield who had a heart for God's glory and for the lost. Spurgeon - yes! I find most of his teachings to be that of a man who is more entrenched in Calvinism and places his theology of Calvinism above reading the scriptures plainly and with sound hermeneutics. Spurgeon read the Bible with a tremendous filter (as do most Calvinist). Whitfield and Edwards - amazingly neither of these men preached Calvinism directly from the puplit. Interestingly enough they preached that repentance was the responsibility of all men.
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