Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 28, 2008 10:16:56 GMT -5
An atheist on campus recently said to me, "Let's talk abut this free will issue. Is God omnipotent?" I said, "God can do all things that can be done". He said, "Can God know the future?" I knew where he was going with that question. If God foreknows the entire future, there is no "may or may not" free will choice, because everything is already settled and certain. You cannot choose contrary to God's eternal foreknowledge. And since God's eternal foreknowledge would cover all events, then all events are eternally settled and certain, they are unavoidable, there can be no contrary choice. Since I knew this would be his argument against free will, I responded with, "God knows all that can be known. But because of free will, the future hasn't been entirely determined. So God knows that the future is partly open. God knows that the future is not exhaustively settled yet." (This is the basic conversation, not word for word).
I uploaded this conversion to youtube and someone recently asked me this:
These are great questions that I want to address.
The fall of mankind was not foreknown by God as a certainty (Gen. 6:5-6). If God knew that they were going to sin, the Bible says He would not have created them. He repented of creating them when He saw that they were using their will for sin.
Christ was ordained to be the Savior BEFORE the foundation of the world (1 Pet. 1:20) because God knew that the fall was a possibility. God was preparing by ordaining a Savior, just in case mankind did rebel. But it was not settled that Christ would actually die UNTIL the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8) which was when the fall of Adam and Eve actually occurred. God prepared for this possibility before the foundation of the world, before the fall, but it was not settled that Christ actually would be slain until the foundation of the world, when the fall actually occurred. Again, Christ was ordained before the foundation of the world (1 Pet. 1:20), but Christ was slain at the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8).
“As has been said, there is no doubt that God did before the foundation of the world determine provisionally on the atonement; in other words, that he determined that if man should fall the atonement should be made”. Joel Hayes (Foreknowledge of God, pg. 85)
“In the case of man, the Trinity had devised a possible atonement, in the event man should sin, that would lead to the avoidance of an infinite amount of suffering and bring good out of possible ruin”. Gordon Olson (Foreknowledge of God, pg. 37)
Is it possible to get a clear biblical explanation of the Limited foreknowledge of God?
Here are some Scriptures to consider:
* God speaks of the future in terms of what may or may not be: Ex. 3:18, 4:9, 13:17; Eze. 12:3
* God changes His plans in response to changing circumstances: Ex. 32:10-14, Jer. 18:1-10
* God's willingness to change His plans is considered one of His glorious attributes: Jonah 4:2; Joel 2:12-13
* God tests people to see what types of decisions they will make: Gen. 22:12; Ex. 16:4; Deut. 8:2, 13:1-3; 2 Chron. 32:31
* God has had disappointments and has regretted how things turned out: Gen. 6:6; 1 Sam. 15:10, 15:35
* God has expected things to happen that didn't come to pass: Isa. 5:1-5; Jer. 3:6-7, 3:19-20
* God gets frustrated and grieved when he attempts to bring individuals into alignment with his will and they resist: Eze. 22:29-31; Isa. 63:10; Eph. 4:30; cf. Heb. 3:8, 3:15, 4:7; Acts 7:51
* The prayers of men have changed the plans of God: Ex. 32:10-14; Num. 11:1-2, 14:12-20, 16:16:20-35; Deut. 9:13-14, 9:18-20, 9:25; 2 Sam. 24:17-25; 1 Kin. 21:27-29; 2 Chron. 12:5-8; Jer. 26:19
* God is said to have repented (changed His mind) multiple times in the Bible: Gen. 6:6-7; Ex. 32:12-14; Num. 23:19; Deut. 32:36; Judges 2:18; 1 Sam. 15:11, 15:29, 15:35; 2 Sam. 24:16; Ps. 90:13, 106:45, 110:4, 135:14; Jer. 4:28, 15:6, 18:8, 18:10, 20:16, 26:3, 26:13, 26:19, 42:10, Eze. 24:14, Hos. 11:8, 13:14; Joel 1:13-14; Amos 7:3, 7:6; Jonah 3:9-10, 4:2; Zach. 8:14
* Prophecies are sometimes God foretelling what He Himself will later bring to pass. So they have to do more with God's omnipotence then His omniscience: Gen. 3:15; 1 Kin. 8:15, 8:20, 8:24, 13:32 (with 2 Kin. 23:1-3, 15-18); 2 Kings 19:25; 2 Chron. 1:9 (1 Chron. 6:4; 10, 15); 2 Chron 36:21-22; Ezra 1:1; Isa. 5:19, 25:1-2, 37:26, 42:9 (with vs. 16); Jer. 29:10, 32:24, 32:28, 33:14-15, Lam. 3:37; Eze. 12:25, 17:24, 33:29, 33:33; Dan. 4:33, 4:37; Acts 3:18, 27:32-35; Rev. 17:17
* Scriptures that say God has a past, present, and a future: Rev. 1:4, 1:8, 4:8
* Scriptures that say God’s eternity is endless time, that is, time without beginning or end: Isa. 9:6-7; Isa. 43:10; Isa. 57:15; Job 36:26; Dan. 4:34; Hab. 1:12 Ps. 23:2; Ps. 90:2; Ps. 102:24; Ps. 102:27; Lk. 1:33; Heb 1:12; Rev 1:4; Rev. 1:8; Rev. 4:8; Rev. 5:14;
* Scriptures that say man's eternity is endless time: Isa. 45:17; Eph. 3:21; Rev. 14:11;
* Scriptures that say eternity is endless time for Heavenly creatures: Rev. 4:8
* Eternity is time without end (endless time instead of timelessness): Isa. 9:6-7; Isa. 43:10; Isa. 57:15; Job 36:26; Dan. 4:34; Hab. 1:12 Ps. 23:2; Ps. 90:2; Ps. 102:24; Ps. 102:27; Lk. 1:33; Heb 1:12; Rev 1:4; Rev. 1:8; Rev. 4:8; Rev. 5:14; Isa. 45:17; Eph. 3:21; Rev. 14:11
I uploaded this conversion to youtube and someone recently asked me this:
Is it possible to get a clear biblical explanation of the Limited foreknowledge of God? If God's knowledge of the future was limited, then how did He know that He would have to send Jesus before the very foundations of the world was laid?
These are great questions that I want to address.
If God's knowledge of the future was limited, then how did He know that He would have to send Jesus before the very foundations of the world was laid?
The fall of mankind was not foreknown by God as a certainty (Gen. 6:5-6). If God knew that they were going to sin, the Bible says He would not have created them. He repented of creating them when He saw that they were using their will for sin.
Christ was ordained to be the Savior BEFORE the foundation of the world (1 Pet. 1:20) because God knew that the fall was a possibility. God was preparing by ordaining a Savior, just in case mankind did rebel. But it was not settled that Christ would actually die UNTIL the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8) which was when the fall of Adam and Eve actually occurred. God prepared for this possibility before the foundation of the world, before the fall, but it was not settled that Christ actually would be slain until the foundation of the world, when the fall actually occurred. Again, Christ was ordained before the foundation of the world (1 Pet. 1:20), but Christ was slain at the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8).
“As has been said, there is no doubt that God did before the foundation of the world determine provisionally on the atonement; in other words, that he determined that if man should fall the atonement should be made”. Joel Hayes (Foreknowledge of God, pg. 85)
“In the case of man, the Trinity had devised a possible atonement, in the event man should sin, that would lead to the avoidance of an infinite amount of suffering and bring good out of possible ruin”. Gordon Olson (Foreknowledge of God, pg. 37)
Is it possible to get a clear biblical explanation of the Limited foreknowledge of God?
Here are some Scriptures to consider:
* God speaks of the future in terms of what may or may not be: Ex. 3:18, 4:9, 13:17; Eze. 12:3
* God changes His plans in response to changing circumstances: Ex. 32:10-14, Jer. 18:1-10
* God's willingness to change His plans is considered one of His glorious attributes: Jonah 4:2; Joel 2:12-13
* God tests people to see what types of decisions they will make: Gen. 22:12; Ex. 16:4; Deut. 8:2, 13:1-3; 2 Chron. 32:31
* God has had disappointments and has regretted how things turned out: Gen. 6:6; 1 Sam. 15:10, 15:35
* God has expected things to happen that didn't come to pass: Isa. 5:1-5; Jer. 3:6-7, 3:19-20
* God gets frustrated and grieved when he attempts to bring individuals into alignment with his will and they resist: Eze. 22:29-31; Isa. 63:10; Eph. 4:30; cf. Heb. 3:8, 3:15, 4:7; Acts 7:51
* The prayers of men have changed the plans of God: Ex. 32:10-14; Num. 11:1-2, 14:12-20, 16:16:20-35; Deut. 9:13-14, 9:18-20, 9:25; 2 Sam. 24:17-25; 1 Kin. 21:27-29; 2 Chron. 12:5-8; Jer. 26:19
* God is said to have repented (changed His mind) multiple times in the Bible: Gen. 6:6-7; Ex. 32:12-14; Num. 23:19; Deut. 32:36; Judges 2:18; 1 Sam. 15:11, 15:29, 15:35; 2 Sam. 24:16; Ps. 90:13, 106:45, 110:4, 135:14; Jer. 4:28, 15:6, 18:8, 18:10, 20:16, 26:3, 26:13, 26:19, 42:10, Eze. 24:14, Hos. 11:8, 13:14; Joel 1:13-14; Amos 7:3, 7:6; Jonah 3:9-10, 4:2; Zach. 8:14
* Prophecies are sometimes God foretelling what He Himself will later bring to pass. So they have to do more with God's omnipotence then His omniscience: Gen. 3:15; 1 Kin. 8:15, 8:20, 8:24, 13:32 (with 2 Kin. 23:1-3, 15-18); 2 Kings 19:25; 2 Chron. 1:9 (1 Chron. 6:4; 10, 15); 2 Chron 36:21-22; Ezra 1:1; Isa. 5:19, 25:1-2, 37:26, 42:9 (with vs. 16); Jer. 29:10, 32:24, 32:28, 33:14-15, Lam. 3:37; Eze. 12:25, 17:24, 33:29, 33:33; Dan. 4:33, 4:37; Acts 3:18, 27:32-35; Rev. 17:17
* Scriptures that say God has a past, present, and a future: Rev. 1:4, 1:8, 4:8
* Scriptures that say God’s eternity is endless time, that is, time without beginning or end: Isa. 9:6-7; Isa. 43:10; Isa. 57:15; Job 36:26; Dan. 4:34; Hab. 1:12 Ps. 23:2; Ps. 90:2; Ps. 102:24; Ps. 102:27; Lk. 1:33; Heb 1:12; Rev 1:4; Rev. 1:8; Rev. 4:8; Rev. 5:14;
* Scriptures that say man's eternity is endless time: Isa. 45:17; Eph. 3:21; Rev. 14:11;
* Scriptures that say eternity is endless time for Heavenly creatures: Rev. 4:8
* Eternity is time without end (endless time instead of timelessness): Isa. 9:6-7; Isa. 43:10; Isa. 57:15; Job 36:26; Dan. 4:34; Hab. 1:12 Ps. 23:2; Ps. 90:2; Ps. 102:24; Ps. 102:27; Lk. 1:33; Heb 1:12; Rev 1:4; Rev. 1:8; Rev. 4:8; Rev. 5:14; Isa. 45:17; Eph. 3:21; Rev. 14:11