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Post by bounbough on Sept 25, 2008 4:09:14 GMT -5
I know that this topic is a bitter pill and has been done to death on other forums, but it is an important one and there needs to be some clear and defined parameters for Christians. I will address one issue at a time. The first one is in regards to Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Some argue that this refers to those who commit fornication during the betrothal period, and it doesn’t apply to those already married. I am asking this question because my x-wife had an affair and then left me. I later re-married but some Christian theology teaches that I am an adulterer. Why? Aside from the said issue; to compound the problem, some theology teaches that unless your x-wife is deceased, you cannot remarry.
Furthermore, what if you marry a women who was previously in a long term relationship with a man, had a child to him, yet never had a civil marriage (legally married). In the eyes of God, was she married to that man?
Look forward to hearing anyones views on this.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Sept 25, 2008 13:12:39 GMT -5
It's been discussed pretty extensively on this board as well.. i forget the thread title, but I'm sure you can find it.
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Post by fs on Oct 28, 2008 17:31:42 GMT -5
I would not worry a great deal about it.
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Post by bounbough on Dec 24, 2008 0:35:40 GMT -5
Re: "We still have time". Reminds me of the track entitled "The Long Trip" by Jack T.Chick where the guy is told that he still has time left, but then falls into the pit.
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Post by messengermicah on Dec 24, 2008 10:23:30 GMT -5
I am sorry but I do not see how anyone can be honest with themself and take the teachings of Jesus and Paul and justify remarriage while they have a living spouse.
Jesus said it was adultery. Paul said it was adultery. John the Baptist said it was adultery.
It is not only an act of adultery but a state of adultery.
I know there are no easy answers if someone is in a remarriage situation but I believe the Word of God is crystal clear to anyone honest enough to see it.
I know several men whose wives left them years ago and they remained single all these years.
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Post by bounbough on Jan 3, 2009 9:05:11 GMT -5
Thank you Brother Micah for your post. I would really like to discuss this issue. Most people have been telling me that I should put the past behind me and ask God to forgive me for this mistake, but for the past 3 years I have been living in the fear of not abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Paul says in 1Co 7:15 [glow=red,2,300]But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.[/glow] My wife left me 7 years ago. Neither of us were Christians then.
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Post by bounbough on Jan 3, 2009 9:19:06 GMT -5
Now see in verse 28 of 1 COR 7. I was loosed from a wife, and Paul is saying that "But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned"
1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 1Co 7:28 [glow=red,2,300]But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned [/glow]and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
And at the time, I had no intention of seeking a wife, but when I met a woman who was bold for preaching the gospel I fell for her and we went to see a Christian marriage counsellor was gave us the 'OK' "ALL CLEAR" to go ahead with the marriage. And so we tied the knot and then the anointing left me. Furthermore, this is not the West where a woman (a mother) can fall back on a social welfare network for support. I am the only financial support she has. If I leave her, she will have nowhere to go, and who will support her? How can I forsake a person in need? Can we not just get a divorce and then I allow her to dwell in an upper room like a sister in Christ? I am at a loss at what to do. I don’t have the strength to put her away.
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Post by bounbough on Jan 3, 2009 9:32:46 GMT -5
>I am sorry but I do not see how anyone can be honest with themself and take the teachings of Jesus and Paul and justify remarriage while they have a living spouse.
Even if that spouse divorced me 7 years ago and moved in with another man?
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Post by bounbough on Jan 3, 2009 9:35:43 GMT -5
I mean, is she still my spouse although we are divorced and she is living with another man?
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Post by benjoseph on Jan 3, 2009 15:47:36 GMT -5
Hi bounbough, I've been asking similar questions recently and this is what I have learned so far. I'd be interested to know what you think of this. Under the law, remarriage could legally follow adultery. (Lev 20:10, Rom 7:1-3, Deu 24) The certificate of divorce was for hardheartedness. (Mat 19:8) Christians don't have hardheartedness. (Bible) The Lord said a Christian is not bound by an adulterous spouse. (Mat 5:32) The Lord said remarriage is adultery with the exception of sexual immorality. (Mat 19:9) Paul said a Christian is bound by an unbelieving spouse unless they depart (1Cor 7:15) Paul said a Christian who is bound by a spouse should not seek divorce (1Co 7:27) Paul said a Christian who is not bound by a spouse should not seek marriage (1Co 7:27) Paul said a Christian who is not bound by a spouse does not sin by marrying (1Co 7:28) or was he only talking to betrothed virgins?The Lord has divorced and will be remarried. (Isa 50:1, Jer 3:8, Rev 21:9, Est 1:19, 2:4, 2:17) I'm not sure yet how God sees civil marriage. I've heard both "no" and "yes" about God respecting a relationship without a civil marriage. If unmarried fornicators have a child together will God allow or encourage them to marry? If one became a Christian and the other departed it would fall under 1Cor 7:15. I hope that helps. I wonder how bible students today would have counseled Abraham when he had a child by his half-sister and his half-sister's servant.
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Post by messengermicah on Jan 3, 2009 15:55:04 GMT -5
Well I sure appreciate your sincerity and honesty in wanting to please the Lord.
As I said above I know several men whose wives left them many years ago when they were much younger and had many opportunities but stayed single and faithful to God.
I can understand how you got into that situation and it sounds very tempting but I see no way you can justify it with the teachings of Jesus and the Bible.
I am not in your situation but I believe you had a good idea about supporting her and not sleeping or having relations with her. I do not think it would be a good witness for her to remain in an upper bedroom and both of you living in the same house (unless you both a very elderly).
If you can support her and live in seperate facilities would be ideal.
I once read of when revival hit China under Jonathan Goforth's ministry a man who had divorced his wife remarried and had children with his second (unlawful) wife. When he got converted he broke the relationship with her and made provision for her and the children and went back to his first wife.
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Post by bounbough on Jan 3, 2009 19:43:09 GMT -5
The clause of exception in Matthew 5:32 "except for fornication" (KJV) I am told by some applies to those in the betrothal period and not after the marriage vows have been taken. Some also believe that if one's spouse is not deceased, then one can not remarry. But then the scriptures in 1 COR 7 made it clear that there is provision for those that are loosed from a wife, to remarry "But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned".
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Post by bounbough on Jan 3, 2009 19:53:10 GMT -5
The question is, does ones spouse have to be deceased before one can remarry?
And there is another issue which i have to consider:
The woman i married has an 11 year old daughter to her x-boyfriend. Although she never had a civil marriage with her x-boyfriend, the fact that he humbled her and impregnated her makes her his wife in the eyes of God. Despite the absence of a civil marriage. Notwithstanding, he did forsake her for another woman which he later married. The Bible is right is saying that he caused her to commit adultery. 1 COR 7:28 “[glow=red,2,300]and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned”[/glow] which suggests that if a man will remarry (being loosed from a wife) then he ought to marry a virgin. So in light of this, is it possible when looking at 1 COR 7:28 that if a man is loosed from a wife and marries a woman who is not a virgin, then he hast not sinned, but the woman has being that she is not a virgin.
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Post by benjoseph on Jan 3, 2009 20:02:36 GMT -5
A friend of mine is in this same situation. I'm looking forward to understanding this fully and being able to talk with him about it too. He was going back and forth on it a lot.
I'm in a similar situation but not remarried.
messengermicah had some objections that I had never considered before so I'd like to sort through that stuff before I give anymore opinions to my friend about this.
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Post by bounbough on Jan 4, 2009 6:28:49 GMT -5
Well, one thing is for sure, it is better to stay single if at all possible IF you were married before and are thinking of remarriage.
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Post by bounbough on Jan 4, 2009 6:32:43 GMT -5
And if you have never been married before, then whatever you do, don't marry a divorced woman (Matthew 5:32).
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Post by dmatic on Jan 5, 2009 17:00:24 GMT -5
benjoseph wrote
This is TRUE!
bounbough, you wrote:
What if it was the LORD's will for you to marry her? I propose that it would be sin, not to!
There is much confusion about this issue, and much unneccessary condemnation by those who merely think they understand!
benjoseph's statement above, is very true!
Now, God says that after a divorce, one is not free to remarry the divorced spouse, IF she has been remarried to another. He calls that abomination.
Therefore, He, Himself, is prohibited from remarrying His "wife" Israel, since "she" had played the harlot and married other gods!
However, Jesus, is free to marry 'her'. Yes, free to marry a divorced woman, if it is God's will. Since God cannot die, "death" according to the Law, will not set Him free to marry her again. According to the Law, the widow/widower is freed by the law of being married to his/.her dead spouse, and is free to marry another.
When we "died" in Jesus, we became free to be married to another...we are no longer to be married to "sin"!
God's peace to you.... dmatic
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Post by bounbough on Jan 6, 2009 7:13:21 GMT -5
If you want to use the Old Testament as your defense, you can settle the issue in Deuteronomy 24.
[glow=red,2,300]Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. [/glow]
But Christ tells us clearly why Moses wrote this precept. It is not the doctrine of Christ (mark 10:4-9). Why are you referring to the Old Testament? If I pluck some ones eye out because they did it to me, will I quote Mosaic “an eye for an eye” (Matthew 5:38). Nay, but we must look to the New Testament, to the doctrine of Christ for clarification. Here in Mark 10:4-9 we can see Christ remedy and clarify the law.
The problem arises when Matthew 5:18 is used to protect yourself from Matthew 5:32 in light of Deut 24:2. That is why it is so critical that the New Testament Church be endowed with the Spirit of Truth (John 16:13) so that we can be led into all truth. For only those that do the Will of the Father will enter in. [glow=red,2,300]Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. [/glow]
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Post by bounbough on Jan 6, 2009 7:40:04 GMT -5
Moreover, another good argument would be to use the case of David with Uriah and Bathsheba (2 SAM 11). God blessed their union with King Solomon, albeit, Uriah was already dead before God allowed David to wed Bathsheba. Here is the doctrine of Christ in a nutshell.
1. Don’t marry an believer 2 COR 6:14 2. If your spouse is not of the household of faith, they are sanctified by you (1 COR 7:14). 3. Paul encourages reconciliation for a spouse that departs and commands us not to divorce them (1 COR 7:11) 4. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: (1 COR 7:15) 5. Don’t marry a person put away (a divorced person) Matthew 5:32 6. A spouse can be put away during the betrothal period if they commit fornication (Matthew 5:32. 7. Paul says that it shouldn’t matter if you have a wife as we should live for Christ as though we had none. [glow=red,2,300]But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; (1 COR 7:29) [/glow]
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Post by dmatic on Jan 6, 2009 15:47:51 GMT -5
bounbough asked:
Because all scripture is profitable for doctrinal issues and training in righteousness, and according to Jesus NONE OF IT would be annulled, until it was all being fulfilled and would remain until heaven and earth passed away.
The Old and the Renewed are from the same author who does not change. That's why.
Peace, dmatic
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Post by Brother. Ross on Jan 6, 2009 22:24:30 GMT -5
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Some argue that this refers to those who commit fornication during the betrothal period, and it doesn’t apply to those already married. Furthermore, what if you marry a women who was previously in a long term relationship with a man, had a child to him, yet never had a civil marriage (legally married). In the eyes of God, was she married to that man? Look forward to hearing anyones views on this. I don't see how a person can be double married and not be considered an adulterer while threre first wife is living according to the scriptures. If a person has a long relationship and a child, they are not married, that why that child is born "out of wedlock"
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Post by Brother. Ross on Jan 8, 2009 21:58:41 GMT -5
But the first wife put me away and is now living in fornication with men! She filed for divorced and we got divorced. In God's eyes, are we still married? if so, then I am living in adultery as I write. Matt. 19:9 Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2: For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3: So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
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Post by Brother. Ross on Jan 12, 2009 18:43:01 GMT -5
If you are referring to that going both ways meaning a man being caalled an adulterer than yes.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
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