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Post by davidvalley on Oct 10, 2008 22:40:36 GMT -5
Now I am not an expert at the Bible but I do have a lot of experience going to a very conservative christian school for four years yet I have a question. Now from what I've heard masturbating is a sin because you are lusting after a woman or a woman is lusting after a man. Then again it is possible to maturbate without thinking of a woman(yes I have done it and no it wasn't easy ) But I won't get into that here so I'll get to my original question. Is finding a woman attractive a sin? I mean technically it is lusting after a woman. We all have opinions on how beautiful a woman is. Anyone who says they are not attractive to a woman is either A. lying or B. homosexual. Yes I am asking this as a serious question and I really want someone to explain this.
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Post by kureji on Oct 11, 2008 8:05:38 GMT -5
Finding a woman attractive: no Wanting to have sex with her: yes
Lust =/= admiration
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Post by davidvalley on Oct 11, 2008 10:19:46 GMT -5
Finding a woman attractive: no Wanting to have sex with her: yes Lust =/= admiration Okay I get that but that still doesn't explain why people think maturbation is a sin.
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Post by Morluna on Oct 11, 2008 11:31:13 GMT -5
Finding a woman attractive: no Wanting to have sex with her: yes Lust =/= admiration Okay I get that but that still doesn't explain why people think maturbation is a sin. I was really hoping this thread was going to be a girl asking about bisexuality/lesbianism, hee. Yeah I've never understood that either. Most Christian faiths now say that masturbation is okay, particularly after US Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders said her peace. (Rotten Library is an awesome online encylcopedia on various topics, check it out. DON'T go to rotten.com proper though, unless you're prepared to be mentally scarred.) I don't really get how you're supposed to both abstain from partner sex, and from any kind of masturbation. I mean, sexuality is a pretty enormous part of being human, but we're just supposed to ignore that it's there. And... no one has ever really given me a good reason why, other than "cause the Bible says" which isn't a very good reason on its own, in my opinion. PS: Hey guys, I decided to come back and play! Hope everyone's been well. <3 - Laura
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 11, 2008 13:07:41 GMT -5
When I masturbated it was always with a body of a woman in mind. Either a woman I know a bit, but more often a woman from erotic/porn stuff, or a woman of my own imagination.
Masturbation is less worse than adultery or literal fornication, but it is sin nevertheless. It is sin, for it is using something good for a selfish purpose, the satisfaction of the flesh.
“What comes out of a man is what makes a man unclean”
Jesus preaches the purity of heart , for the pure in heart shall see God.
“anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell”.
“There are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there are eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it”.
Shocking words ? Nope, he spoke this to let people understand how far humans are fallen short from the purity of God. It is hard for someone who is not circumcised of heart to stop doing things, because his/her nature is there. Only the Son of man can set someone really free.
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Post by davidvalley on Oct 11, 2008 17:42:30 GMT -5
Masturbation is less worse than adultery or literal fornication, but it is sin nevertheless. It is sin, for it is using something good for a selfish purpose, the satisfaction of the flesh. Okay I see where you are coming from but what about urine? It has been proven that it is okay to drink urine. In fact it is healthy to drink someone else's urine. I don't mean it to sound gross but it is a fact. Urinating is a regular thing that we have to do. Just flushing it down a toilet would be considered using it selfishly would it not? Also maturbation is not a selfish thing. I personally do it not just because it feels good and relieves my stress(which I use to take medication for) but also because there is proven research that says it prevents colon cancer. Sure it is used to produce but it will come out of you one way or another. Most people that don't maturbate for long periods will usually have orgasm in their sleep and that is an unpreventable thing. I know because it has happened to me probably more than 8 times when I use to not maturbate. Face it. It is a natural body function that must happen. Maybe not as important as urine but it is in the same sense.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Oct 11, 2008 23:44:02 GMT -5
You said that it's a natural body function that must happen.
You are half right.
MASTURBATION is not a natural body function. The result of it is. That's why the male body has something called "nocturnal emissions."
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Post by dale on Oct 12, 2008 7:08:18 GMT -5
So if you have the proverbial "wet dream" why is it not sinful? Not that I ever had one when I was younger mind you, BUT aren't these usually accompanied with lustful dream visions and thoughts of sexual action?
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Post by evilart on Oct 12, 2008 8:29:16 GMT -5
Sex is great, masturbation is great and so us homsexuality though not my interest,, but bravo to those who answer their own call, is all great. It is the church in all forms and not just christian ones either that have taught guilt , fear and superstition to enslave the people. Break your chains,. Renounce Jesus. Do what thou wilt as Crowley would have you do.
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Post by davidvalley on Oct 12, 2008 8:44:45 GMT -5
You said that it's a natural body function that must happen. You are half right. MASTURBATION is not a natural body function. The result of it is. That's why the male body has something called "nocturnal emissions." Yes nocturnal emission meaning it is going to happen one way or the other meaning it is a healthy practice. I'm not a biologist but I'm sure one could explain to you why it happens naturally like that.
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Post by evilart on Oct 12, 2008 10:27:51 GMT -5
Because of the devil?
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Post by Morluna on Oct 12, 2008 13:26:15 GMT -5
When I masturbated it was always with a body of a woman in mind. Either a woman I know a bit, but more often a woman from erotic/porn stuff, or a woman of my own imagination. Masturbation is less worse than adultery or literal fornication, but it is sin nevertheless. It is sin, for it is using something good for a selfish purpose, the satisfaction of the flesh. “What comes out of a man is what makes a man unclean” Jesus preaches the purity of heart , for the pure in heart shall see God. “anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell”. “There are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there are eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it”. Shocking words ? Nope, he spoke this to let people understand how far humans are fallen short from the purity of God. It is hard for someone who is not circumcised of heart to stop doing things, because his/her nature is there. Only the Son of man can set someone really free. Okay, so your argument is that if you have sex for selfish reasons, which you define as sex for pleasure and one's own gratification, that is sin. So... when exactly is sex anything else? I mean, I've heard that some of the best sex to be had is that "trying to get pregnant" sex when neither of you are concerned about condoms ripping or birth control maybe not working... but, you're saying that sexual pleasure in and of itself is inherently bad? So a husband and wife trying to conceive, if they actually enjoy themselves... that's sinful? Man... why have sex without pleasure? That's pretty lame. If that's not what you meant please correct me; that's just the meaning I read in your words. My... interpretation of your gospel, if you will. Oh and also, women in porn are UGLY. They look like plastic mannequins and their boobs are always abnormally large. They freak me out. I don't know how some people get off on that nasty. :/ The suggestion and tease of artistic nudes and sexy women with their clothes on are WAY hotter, IMO.
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Post by dale on Oct 12, 2008 14:29:21 GMT -5
You need to come back to this page more often now that you have returned and let these people make a Godly woman out of you. That's what you need!
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 12, 2008 14:33:02 GMT -5
;D yep, when husband and wife make love they have pleasure, but it is not sexual only ; it is the pleasure to love each other and to know they are destined to be together. I mean it is not the satisfaction of the body which is the most important , although the body is 'happy' too
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Post by davidvalley on Oct 12, 2008 23:44:44 GMT -5
So if you have the proverbial "wet dream" why is it not sinful? Not that I ever had one when I was younger mind you, BUT aren't these usually accompanied with lustful dream visions and thoughts of sexual action? That is usually the case but whenever it happened to me I was never dreaming sexual things at all. I believe it had more to do with not masturbating when I was awake. Also I don't think there is any difference between having sex in marriage or having sex with someone you love. Divorce rate is higher than ever right now so obviously most married couples were not meant to be together. I think if you have sex with someone you love it is okay no matter what anyone wants to try and tell you otherwise. Using sex to get things and stuff like that I don't agree with though. Sex is so much better when you are sharing it with someone you care about.
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Post by davidvalley on Oct 13, 2008 11:34:29 GMT -5
Is anyone on this board going to bring forth some good debate. I have still not read one thing on this thread that has challenged my whole maturbating without thinking lustfully.
So Debonair said it was a sin anyway because it was using something for self pleasure. Isn't eating candy or soda or something else unhealthy for self pleasure. We could be using the good ingredients in that food in something that is nutritious. So wouldn't that mean according to Debonair that eating food that is not exactly healthy for you is a sin?
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Post by Morluna on Oct 14, 2008 21:25:54 GMT -5
Is anyone on this board going to bring forth some good debate. I have still not read one thing on this thread that has challenged my whole maturbating without thinking lustfully. So Debonair said it was a sin anyway because it was using something for self pleasure. Isn't eating candy or soda or something else unhealthy for self pleasure. We could be using the good ingredients in that food in something that is nutritious. So wouldn't that mean according to Debonair that eating food that is not exactly healthy for you is a sin? *GASP* We shall have to outlaw those delicious little Starlight mints the Baptist churches so love! xD I remember all the old ladies in my church choir LOVED having 5 or 6 of those mints stuck in their choir books to suck on during service. I never understood it because my chorus instructors at school taught us that you can't have anything in your mouth while singing... because it keeps you from being able to enunciate your words, DUH. Interestingly, none of them (the old ladies at church) were very good singers either... they were always wrangling me into doing solos....
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 15, 2008 3:00:19 GMT -5
So Debonair said it was a sin anyway because it was using something for self pleasure. Isn't eating candy or soda or something else unhealthy for self pleasure. We could be using the good ingredients in that food in something that is nutritious. So wouldn't that mean according to Debonair that eating food that is not exactly healthy for you is a sin? For the sake of accuracy , I’ll say that eating “less healthy food” or “junk food” is not a sin. That is what the New Testament teaches anyway. Of course, and as suggested in another post, it is common sense to avoid them when it is possible... There is nothing that can enter into a man that can make him impure (i.e sinner), that is what Jesus taught on this subject, but what makes a man impure is what comes out of his heart (LUST, Greed, Hatred, Rivalry , adultery etc…, you know the list)
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Post by Morluna on Oct 15, 2008 13:18:31 GMT -5
So Debonair said it was a sin anyway because it was using something for self pleasure. Isn't eating candy or soda or something else unhealthy for self pleasure. We could be using the good ingredients in that food in something that is nutritious. So wouldn't that mean according to Debonair that eating food that is not exactly healthy for you is a sin? For the sake of accuracy , I’ll say that eating “less healthy food” or “junk food” is not a sin. That is what the New Testament teaches anyway. Of course, and as suggested in another post, it is common sense to avoid them when it is possible... There is nothing that can enter into a man that can make him impure (i.e sinner), that is what Jesus taught on this subject, but what makes a man impure is what comes out of his heart (LUST, Greed, Hatred, Rivalry , adultery etc…, you know the list) Ah ha! Comes out of his heart! Not his peenor! xD Lol, sorry. I did it for the lulz. But I seriously don't get how anyone can condemn something as hilarious as ejaculation. It's just the funniest body function ever. Well... After farts, which are also just too ridiculous. God must have a sense of humor, cause that crap is funny. I mean, it like, gushes out in the funniest way. If you can't laugh at that, you have no soul. In fact, if you can't laugh at a boner in general, something is wrong with you. Probably don't want to laugh at it... WHILE in bed... do a real number on the guy's ego... xD But it's funny. Boners are funny. Plain and simple. Oh and to respond to your comment about junk food. Yeah, I have seen 400lb. street preachers heaving their fat lardbucket selves around denouncing people for having sex, and I just have to laugh. What ever happened to "Your body is a temple unto the Lord?" I think they're just mad cause they're too fat to get laid. :/
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 16, 2008 15:03:58 GMT -5
Oh and to respond to your comment about junk food. Yeah, I have seen 400lb. street preachers heaving their fat lardbucket selves around denouncing people for having sex, and I just have to laugh. What ever happened to "Your body is a temple unto the Lord?" I think they're just mad cause they're too fat to get laid. :/ Do you know personally these fat preachers or are you just laughing at them because they are fat ? As for the ‘quote’ of “What ever happened to Your body is a temple unto the Lord”,you are quoting that out of context, for the scriptures refer to this admonition regarding sexual immorality and not food. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. [1 Corinthians 6:18-20] The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. [1 Timothy 4] Do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink [Colossians 2:16] Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? [Colossians 2:20-21] Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. [Romans 14:13-14] Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. [Romans 14:19-21] All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. [1 Corinthians 6:12-14]
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Post by dale on Oct 16, 2008 15:32:26 GMT -5
Again though, you argue by use of the Bible as a source, with people who do not believe in the Bible. Why is this so hard for you all to grasp.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Oct 16, 2008 21:13:13 GMT -5
Because, Dale, The Bible is our starting point. God's word is the foundation. Most of the people on this board hold to the *presupposition* "In the beginning God..."
Apart from that presuppostion, all other worldviews are, as they say, "reductio ad absurdum."
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 17, 2008 0:10:39 GMT -5
YeS. And Morluna was quoting something from the Bible out of context, it was to "wipe out" a misconception. Also , there are maybe non christians who may want to know what the Bible really says, instead of relying on what they could have heard before about it but were only religious 'clichés'.
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Post by dale on Oct 17, 2008 6:18:34 GMT -5
And how do we know your interpretation is correct then?
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 17, 2008 9:23:41 GMT -5
the scriptures quoted above stand clear enough by themselves, methinks. it is not an interpretation.
the doctrines of some particular churches (catholic,adventist, etc...) may have muddied the waters on this subject (for they do not stand on what is already written).
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Post by kureji on Oct 17, 2008 10:35:12 GMT -5
Like all good fiction, you can take the Bible however you want to read it and it doesn't really matter.
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Post by Morluna on Oct 17, 2008 14:04:33 GMT -5
Oh and to respond to your comment about junk food. Yeah, I have seen 400lb. street preachers heaving their fat lardbucket selves around denouncing people for having sex, and I just have to laugh. What ever happened to "Your body is a temple unto the Lord?" I think they're just mad cause they're too fat to get laid. :/ Do you know personally these fat preachers or are you just laughing at them because they are fat ? As for the ‘quote’ of “What ever happened to Your body is a temple unto the Lord”,you are quoting that out of context, for the scriptures refer to this admonition regarding sexual immorality and not food. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. [1 Corinthians 6:18-20] Ah, well sir I stand corrected. I haven't checked on the exact context of that phrase in a while and I did misquote it. My apologies. I agree with you, it's pretty clear what that scripture is saying, and it's not really even open to interpretation. Though, correct me if I'm wrong... isn't that phrase "your body is a temple" brought up elsewhere in reference to bad foods, alcohol, tattooing, smoking, etc being bad? Or is that just something that is thrown around in church talk? Because I have definitely heard churchgoers say those sorts of things; whether it's explicitly Biblical or not I'm not sure. As to whether I know those preachers personally... I have spoken to them in person, if that's what you mean. I wouldn't say I know them WELL... but I've spoken with them, and generally a person's fitness level speaks for itself I think.
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 18, 2008 5:03:04 GMT -5
Greetings to you. Thank you for your answer, mademoiselle. Maybe these preachers are really guilty of gluttony , ;D or maybe not. As for tattoes, i don't know one single Christian who has decided to bear tattoes after his conversion. [At the difference of a weirdo like Todd Bentley for example who decided to bear tattoes after his so-called conversion. But i doubt that the fellow has ever been from God, given his demonic teachings and various sins he has not repented of]. If one bears tattoes or pericings or is drunkard , he will be welcome in Christ. but once he is in Christ he receives the Holy Spirit of God. The fact of not having tattoes of course is Not what makes one more holy. For holiness and purity are from the inside. if a Christian would decide all of sudden to bear tattoes to the glory of Jesus it would be meaningless , and i would dare say foolishness. The Church is called the 'Temple of God' on earth , only because the Holy Spirit abides in them. So yes they are required to flee from what is unholy. For example to be drunk of wine be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; [Ephesians 5:18-21]
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Post by dale on Oct 18, 2008 7:32:48 GMT -5
I heard Morluna be called a lot of things here, but never a mademoiselle before.
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Post by dale on Oct 18, 2008 8:10:27 GMT -5
Ps. aren' t mademoisellles all supposed to look like Heidi or like Julia Andrews when she comes singing up that hill in The Sound of Music? Not exactly like the photo image in your posts.
I would be careful, Laura, as I think the French guy is using all that Pepe Lepuew talk to try to seduce you. I mean we all know what French people are like, right? The over-romantic, but scent handicapped skunk aforenoted in the Looney Tunes cartoons had to be inspired by something in real life, right? He is going to get you to come to France all lovestruck for him,. with these romantic images in your mind and such , then once you get there, instead of taking you to some romantic snail and bread dinner on the Champs Eyelsies or whatever it is, he is going to corner you and tell you more about Jesus!
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