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Post by dale on Oct 20, 2008 20:55:17 GMT -5
Why should I get born again, especially if it works as you all seem to imply? Let me see, I can get saved and lose my salvation at the drop of a hat. Your God is a spiritual indian giver and why should I put faith in Him if He cannot even be expected to live up to his agreements? I take it if I am reading what some of the people here say, you can repeatedly lose salvation , meaning you need to get reborn again and again and again and again, every time you slip into sin. (Unless of course you are this Smock guy who does not sin any more).
The whole concept you present is absurd.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Oct 20, 2008 23:21:01 GMT -5
Dale,
There is a responsibility that we need to live up to as well. But the Bible also says that God is "slow to anger, rich in love and abounding in mercy." God is patient He sees far past our actions into our motives and intentions of the heart.
What you said about being "reborn again and again" is a common objection among many people. I don't think this is the case at all when it comes to "losing" your salvation. I don't think a Christian, if he sins, and then repents, is "born again, again" but He is repentent and recieving correction. The Bible says that God chastises (corrects) all those who are His children. It also says that "if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous."
If the Christian life was all about focusing on "not sinning," that would be a miserable existence. It's about loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and loving your neighbor as yourself. It's about what you CAN do through Christ, and only through Christ.
I think what I said, and an examination of what the Bible says shows that one is not lost "at the drop of a hat." But upon willful rebellion which upon reproof remains unrepented of, and the heart unteachable.
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Post by davidvalley on Oct 20, 2008 23:43:36 GMT -5
Wow Jeff you should yell that at people instead of "YOUR ALL GOING TO HELL IF YOU DON'T REPENT OF YOUR SINS!!!!" I think it would be a lot more subtle. lol
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Post by dale on Oct 21, 2008 9:15:25 GMT -5
THis makes a bit more sense, but is not what many people here seem to rave. So I take this as you are not a subscriber to the eternal sanctification belief and not one of those who think everyt ime you do some type of minor sin and do not repent, you are going to be in hell and lving next to me? The thing is you all want to win us over to a God you cannot truly prove exists, yet cannot get together on what He is all about yourselves.
The way it voils down, unless you get it wrong, is someone aside from yourself then, or others here on one extreme side of the fence or another, would be openly preaching false doctrine then, would they not and thus ecven by youir standards be worthy of denouncement as a false prophet and all the things that come with it? The question is, which side?
Accorfing tos oem posts we have people who believe they have actually stopped sinning? Am I msising it again or did I hear that right? Stopped sinning in regard to the extent? If they have stopped sinning, period, then brag on it in this way are they not guilty of lies, false pride or something or another?
Not that I would do it anyway, but why get born again if no one seems to have the right answer for sure on what it entails, when, for how long or why. It is like asking ten people what happened after they saw a fight on the playground. You end up with similarities, but still ten different answers.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Oct 21, 2008 22:22:43 GMT -5
Well, I DO believe that is possible to go without sinning. If you can go an hour without committing sin, I'm sure you can go longer. Is this a point to brag on? By no means!
Biblically speaking, God says that He always provides a way of escape from temptation, a way to avoid sin. It's up to us to decide if we choose that escape or not.
I understand what you're saying "Why be born again, if those who are supposed to be examples, don't agree or even get along!?!" It boils down to what IS the BIBLE actually saying?
When I was born again, I was blessed to have mentors who did not try to fill me with their own theology, but continually encouraged to study what the Bible said and form conclusions from that.
When it comes to those who disgaree... sometimes Dale, we need to be reasonable and, as they say, eat the meat and spit out the bones.
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Post by evilart on Oct 22, 2008 8:57:22 GMT -5
Why get born again at all and believe in a lie as there is no god and the fake god the street ranters rave of is the worst of the made up ones.
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Post by fs on Oct 29, 2008 20:55:29 GMT -5
Sign on again as a member and not a guest and discuss it with me. Let me ask you one thing first. Do you think you are good person ? Simple question, friend.
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