miche
New Member
... among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life ... (Philippians 2:15
Posts: 47
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Post by miche on Dec 3, 2008 15:47:07 GMT -5
Should a Christian woman ever rebuke unbelieving men(when a rebuke is appropriate), or is that outside of God's order? God has been good to me to open my eyes to see that much of what the world says women should be like isn't his way. Praise the Lord, I've unlearned a lot and am thriving in His truth ! However, there are still some issues, like this one that I'm not totally sure about yet. I need to interpret the bible correctly on this because if I don't interpret it correctly, I will either disobey God by usurping his order, or by not speaking His truth! I would appreciate your opinions, and even more so your prayers that God would grant me understanding. God bless you. Michelle
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Post by messengermicah on Dec 3, 2008 16:44:04 GMT -5
This is off the top of my head but Phillip had four daughters that preached (Acts 21).
You cannot preach without rebuking (2 Timothy 4:2).
Rebuke away! We need more of them!
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Post by Kureji on Dec 4, 2008 14:03:04 GMT -5
If you're out and about rebuking sinners you have a more devious problem, why are you out of the kitchen?
...Or why are the sinners in your kitchen?
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miche
New Member
... among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life ... (Philippians 2:15
Posts: 47
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Post by miche on Dec 6, 2008 2:34:00 GMT -5
His daughters prophesied. But if they followed protocol they were not permitted to teach men in spiritual matters or have any kind of authority over a man. So does Paul's direction not apply when unbeliever's are involved? Or do you think his direction is only culturally relevant? I'm hoping to hear more on this issue from other mature Christians like messengermicah.
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Post by valentine on Dec 6, 2008 17:30:56 GMT -5
Uh, Michelle, dear, maybe you should read more posts. All religion and politics aside, Micah is mature like Paris Hilton is intelligent.
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Post by messengermicah on Dec 8, 2008 16:46:24 GMT -5
The word prophesied means the same thing as to preach.
All the passages I have seen only deal with women preaching in a church setting (1 Corinthians 14:34, 1 Timothy 2:12).
I think the Bible is clearly against women pastors.
The book of Acts 2:17 says sons and daughters shall prophesy and He will pour out His Spirit on His servants and handmaidens and they shall prophesy.
Do a study of the word prophesy.
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Post by fs on Dec 8, 2008 21:49:39 GMT -5
I always rebuke those I feel need revuking and I do not care who likes it or not.
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Post by Kureji on Dec 9, 2008 13:30:22 GMT -5
I always rebuke those I feel need revuking and I do not care who likes it or not. That's quite obvious, you're almost as bad as micah, maybe thats why you two bicker like you do. Maybe Micah should head up to where you are fs and you can do alittle "bible study" together, eh eh?
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Post by valentine on Dec 9, 2008 13:54:42 GMT -5
^ MICAH/FS IS THE NEW MILES/JESSE. ;D
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Post by fs on Dec 9, 2008 16:36:27 GMT -5
Who's Miles?
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Post by debonnaire on Dec 10, 2008 7:24:58 GMT -5
I hesitate between Miles Davies , Miles Tone and Miles Pergallon
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Post by Kureji on Dec 10, 2008 9:12:50 GMT -5
...Miles Lewis, the one on our board.
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Post by benjoseph on Dec 10, 2008 13:35:57 GMT -5
Michelle, Can you give more detail about the situation(s)?
Is there a christian man who provides for you? Are you usually with a faithful brother?
Do you mean a stranger or someone you live with?
Tamar, king David's daughter, rebuked her brother Amnon twice. That's in 2Samuel 13. There was no man with her to speak up against Amnon.
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Post by valentine on Dec 10, 2008 14:43:32 GMT -5
...Miles Lewis, the one on our board. Clearly Deb hasn't been around long enough to remember the epicness that was the OAO shipping thread.
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Post by rebecca on Dec 10, 2008 19:12:19 GMT -5
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Post by messengermicah on Dec 12, 2008 17:14:32 GMT -5
We need more holy living, rebuking women!
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Post by Kureji on Dec 14, 2008 10:13:53 GMT -5
We need more holy living, rebuking women, that make a mean sandwich! fix'd kthnx
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miche
New Member
... among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life ... (Philippians 2:15
Posts: 47
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Post by miche on Dec 15, 2008 0:25:38 GMT -5
Rebecca-- thank you very much! It looks like a good site. I'll definitely check it out. There isn't a lot of guidance about that kind of thing around here so I appreciate the link.
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miche
New Member
... among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life ... (Philippians 2:15
Posts: 47
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Post by miche on Dec 15, 2008 1:41:26 GMT -5
BenJoseph: Thank you for calling my attention to Tamar's rebuke. Here are some answers to your questions: I do not have a husband (I have not married or had children yet) my father and mother, who I cannot consider Christian at this point, provide for me. (I live in an apartment off of their house and help take care of my grandma, she's 91)
Am I usually with a faithful brother? No. that's just not really available here. The small, fairly isolated town I live in has very few folks that show they have any real relationship with the Lord to begin with, but even among them, only a few(I can count them on one hand) that I could really see confronting someone, say, involved in fornication(believer or unbeliever). Sad huh? And of those few, they say they don't have time for anything much past work, family, and their current church duties. I'd love for someone to partner with me, but I haven't met anybody so far that would work out with.
***Whether it is at home or with a stranger, I guess what I'm really wondering is can or can't a woman preach the gospel to a man if there isn't another man available/willing and qualified to do so? ***
I know what my pastor would tell me, but then the denomination our church is of(Church of the Nazarene) will ordain a woman as a pastor(though it rarely happens at this point I guess).
Thanks Micah for the encouragement and for making the point about women prophesying.
Can I get some more biblically supported opinions from Christians, please?
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Post by benjoseph on Dec 15, 2008 3:57:06 GMT -5
I can't claim to be a mature christian at this point but here are some more thoughts on it:
Someone has to do it Michelle. It ought to be the men taking the lead, which I gather you agree with.
Your town isn't the only town that's in a sad state. I live in a majorly homosexual town, northampton, ma. I've only met a small handful of people who seemed to take God's word seriously. Only one of them, that I know of, actually rebuked sin in the streets.
I was just thinking, if you were with a man, that him taking the lead seemed appropriate, but if you're by yourself then I think you may be responsible in some situations. Even a little child has to be able to speak up when an adult is doing something wrong. I'll pray for a more ideal situation for you. It sure is encouraging seeing your desire to serve God.
It sounds like that pastor wasn't reading his bible.
If you are concerned about being respectful (which is also encouraging to see) you could consider the different ways servants of God used to admonish those they did not have authority over. I don't think you need to think of every man as if he is a king or anything like that, but the basic principle of humble admonishment seems like the way to go if you are unsure.
Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
The way Paul spoke to rulers in acts is obviously way over the top for this, but maybe once you take out all the fancy titles of honor you can get a basic idea of how he boldly spoke the truth.
The word "sir" is good for showing respect. I saw a video of a women correcting a street preacher and she kept calling him "bro". I don't know if it was just her attitude (which stunk) but the word seemed inappropriate the way she used it.
I've been thinking about how I can admonish an older man in a way that is appropriate and one thing I've tried is turning the statement into a question. You can still hit hard with the direct blow of the truth but presenting it in a way that doesn't make it sound like you are their instructor or superior. I guess an "appeal" is what you would call that.
As long as you don't have a husband, brother, etc. to guide you in this, I think if you just closely follow your conscience and stick with the two good motives you've expressed here (to speak the truth in love) God can show you if you're too hesitant or too bold.
I was thinking about what Jesus said "Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath?" Children should never yell at adults in general. But if an adult was about to get hit by a train shouldn't the child speak up?
I don't think being an orator is an edifying role for a woman but I don't think that disqualifies her from sharing the truth with someone.
I'd like to know if that helps with your question or not.
Another thought I just had is that all men have a conscience themselves and if they were willing to listen to it they would soon find themselves taught by God. Maybe you can appeal to a man's own conscience, that he would receive instruction from what God has placed in him.
I'm sorry this isn't a simple yes or no opinion.
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Post by dmatic on Dec 16, 2008 16:33:23 GMT -5
michele, As long as you can do your rebuking, in love, I see nothing wrong with it. God, in fact "prophesies" in Joel, that in the latter days He will prophesy through men and women. If prophesy means to preach, then.....
let us speak the truth, in love.
peace, dmatic
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Post by benjoseph on Dec 19, 2008 0:00:52 GMT -5
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Post by Miles Lewis on Dec 20, 2008 22:57:47 GMT -5
Who is Miles Lewis anyway?
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miche
New Member
... among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life ... (Philippians 2:15
Posts: 47
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Post by miche on Dec 25, 2008 5:16:50 GMT -5
BenJoseph, that was an excellent reply and very helpful, indeed! Great advice and I appreciate that you always put so much thought behind your replies! Thank you very much.
The Lord has graciously heard my prayers for understanding about this issue and has given me peace about it! I don't have any plans of being a public orator preaching to crowds full of men and purposefully targeting them to rebuke. But even so, in certain circumstances(where there is no Christian man available) and **as the Holy Spirit directs**, I feel assured now that I would not be sinning by declaring the gospel or even rebuking a man. Whew, that uncertainty was a heavy burden I'm glad to have off! Thanks again for your excellent reply and advice. God bless you, BenJoseph!
Oh, I want to add a bit more (for whoever might be interested) about one of the confirmations that I believe the Lord gave me. When I was in prayer about all this and had come to a fairly sure opinion, right away the Lord gave me an experience that helped cement it for me. Unexpectedly a teenage young man and some other people I'd never met before happened to come to my parents house (an old friend of my sister's came with her kids to visit because my sister was getting married-but they didn't make it in time. The young man is a nephew of hers that she has taken him in to live with her and so he came along with her other teenage children) I didn't know any of them, but they came up to visit with me in my apartment. I was just telling them a little about what the Lord had done for me and that young man just started going off about how God wasn't real. I was absolutely sure that I was supposed to respond to him, so I declared and explained the gospel and I confidently countered every argument he had like I never have before! There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that I was empowered by the Holy Spirit doing that. There wasn't any other Christian there to do it and that kid needed desperately to hear it. (He had a very warped view of what Christians believe and the poor child was terribly disturbed emotionally and spiritually) He was openly manifesting, and yet I could see that there was a definite struggle going on inside him that seemed to want to believe.
We talked for probably an hour and a half. He admitted to being involved in occult activities which was pretty obvious. There was a creepy moment when he soberly agreed and began to tremble himself as he acknowledged that the demons definitely do believe in Jesus and tremble--and that was right after he had been emphatically declaring that God didn't exist! (I could tell he wasn't acting) I should have done it sooner, but after that, though it was near the end of our conversation, I finally got up the nerve and commanded those demons that were tormenting him to leave him alone so that he could have some freedom to listen to the gospel and consider it. I shouldn't be surprised, but I was when I saw that tortured look on his face and his uptight posture totally relax and a calmness and rationalness come over him! Praise the Lord! He even said completely on his own without any prompting, that he felt different. I could tell he was sincere too. It wasn't like he was messing with me.
God is so good! I wish I could say that he converted, but he did seem very thoughtful about it and said he needed to think about it some more. And then they had to leave to make the 750 mile drive back home. His aunt (who had been listening in, along with the other kids, on much of our conversation) seemed very appreciative and receptive, so I decided to give her the New Testament on CD I had originally got for somebody else recently, but they didn't want it. She, however seemed very happy to receive it and said she would definitely play through it on their way home....
So that was just one of the confirmations I believe the Lord gave me about that! Isn't that just great that God worked all that out, not just for me but for them too? God's hand was totally in that. I praise his name!
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Post by benjoseph on Dec 25, 2008 19:42:20 GMT -5
That is awesome Michelle. It sounds like it was a pretty powerful interaction there. Hopefully his thinking about it will lead to right conclusions. I'm glad you have peace about it now too! Sounds like a big relief. Thanks for sharing the encouragement.
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