jsides
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by jsides on Jan 4, 2009 14:14:34 GMT -5
Looks like u really do not have an understanding of Gods will. Is it Gods will for people to suffer yet he is the one who sends them to hell yet you say its there free will to go how can someone who does not even know where hell is go there unless God himself sends them of his will. Can Satan who is not even in hell choose to obey and love God why not if he has free will as well?
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jsides
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by jsides on Jan 4, 2009 14:18:52 GMT -5
I asked about the will of the parent who has the ability to carry out the punishment not the will of the child.
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jsides
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by jsides on Jan 4, 2009 14:45:50 GMT -5
Consider this if it even gets posted Youtube deleted your account because they felt it violated there terms and they have the right to do so. Some of my post have been deleted and yet I kept within the terms and even know u have the right to do so as the admin why are you upset and expect others not to be if you do the same thing.
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Post by jonspeed on Jan 5, 2009 18:38:21 GMT -5
Clearly Jesse's "god" is not able to stop the owners of Youtube. They are stronger than he is.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 5, 2009 20:46:14 GMT -5
Clearly Jesse's "god" is not able to stop the owners of Youtube. They are stronger than he is. What a worthless comment. Is this really all you had to say Jon?
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Post by Kerrigan on Jan 5, 2009 21:09:34 GMT -5
Good question Josh...
"jsides", I think that Jesse understands God's will just fine. He just doesn't think that everything that happens is God's will like a Calvinist does. I doubt it was God's will for Jesse's account to get shut down on YouTube. He may have allowed it, but that doesn't mean that it was His will that it happen. As far as YouTube having the right to shut his account down or not, well, that isn't even the question. The question is WHY did they shut it down? Were they discriminatory in the process and were they following their own policies?
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Post by joemccowan on Jan 5, 2009 21:55:05 GMT -5
Clearly Jesse's "god" is not able to stop the owners of Youtube. They are stronger than he is. That's pathetic Jon. True colors I guess....
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Post by tonyholland on Jan 6, 2009 17:48:21 GMT -5
Clearly Jesse's "god" is not able to stop the owners of Youtube. They are stronger than he is. That's pathetic Jon. True colors I guess.... I'm going out on a limb and saying that most likely Jon was kidding, just as Jesse was kidding about the the account ban being God's soverign will. Jesse...did they identify the TS that they claim you violated. Of all the crazy stuff on youtube, it's pretty nutty that they decided to ban yours.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 10, 2009 13:42:52 GMT -5
God has a plan A, B, and C.
Plan A: Nobody ever sins, His law is to be perfectly obeyed
Plan B: Those who sin can repent and be restored through Jesus Christ
Plan C: Those who do not repent and are not restored will be sent to hell for the good of His Kingdom
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 10, 2009 13:51:31 GMT -5
It is not a question of ability, that is a straw man Calvinists always give.
It is a question of willingness.
Is God willing to remove man's free will? Not usually.
God usually allows men to make free will choices. God wants men to make moral choices. Moral choices requires moral ability. God wants men to voluntarily make good choices. God wants me to obey His law from their heart. Therefore God gives men the free choice to obey His law or disobey His law.
Occasionally God removes a man's free will, but that is His "emergency measures". And when free will is removed, moral character and moral accountability is suspended. When a men is a mere instrument in God's hands, man is not responsible or accountable for what he does, and what he does is not a reflection of his own moral character but it is a reflection of God's moral character, since God is making his choices for Him. But most of the time God allows men to make free moral choices. (all moral choices are free).
God could remove man's free will (God's ability) but God does not always remove man's free will (God's willingness). God gave us our free will and can take it away whenever He wants. But most of the time, He doesn't want to. God allows men to disobey His will.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 10, 2009 14:09:03 GMT -5
Jon, would you say that the internet is full of nothing but the will of God? Would you say that it is the will of God that my preaching videos be removed from YouTube, but it is the will of God that the internet be full of pornography videos?
If your god wants the internet to be full of child porn and rape videos, what type of evil, sick, wicked, sadistic, god do you serve?
Is your god on the same side as the devil? Is the will of the devil and the will of your god one and the same?
Does God tell us to obey him, when he secretly wants us to disobey him? If so, how can you trust anything God says? How can you trust the Bible?
I cannot trust or worship the "Sovereign" god of Calvinism. I do not serve him or love him. The god of Calvinism is not worthy of trust, worship, service, or love.
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Post by Steve Noel on Jan 10, 2009 23:31:00 GMT -5
Jon, would you say that the internet is full of nothing but the will of God? Would you say that it is the will of God that my preaching videos be removed from YouTube, but it is the will of God that the internet be full of pornography videos? If your god wants the internet to be full of child porn and rape videos, what type of evil, sick, wicked, sadistic, god do you serve? Is your god on the same side as the devil? Is the will of the devil and the will of your god one and the same? Does God tell us to obey him, when he secretly wants us to disobey him? If so, how can you trust anything God says? How can you trust the Bible? I cannot trust or worship the "Sovereign" god of Calvinism. I do not serve him or love him. The god of Calvinism is not worthy of trust, worship, service, or love. Jesse, Based on these extremely strong words above, is it your position that Calvinists will perish because of idolatry? (I understand that your statement is made in response to Jon's post.)
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Post by Paul A. Kaiser on Jan 13, 2009 22:44:56 GMT -5
These are strong words and have far reaching implications...
I would be very much interested in hearing your response to the above question posed by Steve as well...
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Post by Kerrigan on Jan 13, 2009 23:05:54 GMT -5
They are strong words Brother Paul, but no more strong than Jon's were...
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Post by Paul A. Kaiser on Jan 14, 2009 2:10:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately that is not a response to Steve's question....
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Post by Kerrigan on Jan 14, 2009 11:55:00 GMT -5
Unfortunately that is not a response to Steve's question.... Well, the question wasn't asked of me. I think that you know my response, as I've already given it MANY times...you NON-Damnable Heretic! ;D
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 14, 2009 21:30:22 GMT -5
That depends on how Calvinism answers the questions I posted:
- Is the internet is full of nothing but the will of God?
- Would you say that it is the will of God that my preaching videos be removed from YouTube, but it is the will of God that the internet be full of pornography videos?
- If your god wants the internet to be full of child porn and rape videos, what type of evil, sick, wicked, sadistic, god do you serve?
- Is your god on the same side as the devil?
- Is the will of the devil and the will of your god one and the same?
- Does God tell us to obey him, when he secretly wants us to disobey him? If so, how can you trust anything God says? How can you trust the Bible?
How these questions are answered determines whether or not Calvinism has a God other than the God of the Bible.
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Post by Steve Noel on Jan 14, 2009 22:28:05 GMT -5
That depends on how Calvinism answers the questions I posted: - Is the internet is full of nothing but the will of God? - Would you say that it is the will of God that my preaching videos be removed from YouTube, but it is the will of God that the internet be full of pornography videos? - If your god wants the internet to be full of child porn and rape videos, what type of evil, sick, wicked, sadistic, god do you serve? - Is your god on the same side as the devil? - Is the will of the devil and the will of your god one and the same? - Does God tell us to obey him, when he secretly wants us to disobey him? If so, how can you trust anything God says? How can you trust the Bible? How these questions are answered determines whether or not Calvinism has a God other than the God of the Bible. Well in the previous post you made it clear that this is how you see the Calvinist view of God, correct? Let me quote, "I cannot trust or worship the "Sovereign" god of Calvinism. I do not serve him or love him. The god of Calvinism is not worthy of trust, worship, service, or love." So I'm thinking that in your mind there's not really a question here is there?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 14, 2009 22:47:06 GMT -5
To be honest, I sometimes think that Calvinists must have a reprobate mind, or an unregenerate mind, because I cannot understand how they could think or believe the things that they do.
I also question if they read the Bible with genuine and honest hearts, because if they did, they would never conclude that sin was the "eternal plan of God". God is heart broken over sin. God hates sin. God never wanted the universe to sin.
I believe that TULIP as a whole is false doctrine. Every single point in TULIP is false. It is the exact opposite of the truth. I would not be surprised if we realized in Heaven that the doctrines of TULIP were actually invented by the devil himself.
I have no doubt that I will see Pelagius and Finney in Heaven, but I have serious doubts as to whether I will see Augustine or Calvin. But I would be surprised if men like Whitefield or Spurgeon were not in Heaven.
When it comes to Calvinists, some are deceived, some are deceivers. The deceivers are worst than the deceived, but even those who are deceived must have something in their heart which would draw them to such a false and terrible system.
It is also very possible that some Calvinists have resisted so much of the truth of God that they are now vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. The Calvinists who actually and literally "sin every day, in word, thought, and deed" are no doubt going to hell.
No other theology that I have ever encountered slanders the heart and character of God and twists and misinterprets the Bible as much as Calvinism does. Words cannot express what I truly feel and believe on this topic.
It amazes me that people viciously oppose and attack open theism and moral government theology, while either endorsing or "getting along with" Calvinism. What is worse, saying that God didn't know the universe would sin when He created it, or saying that God created the universe so that they would sin?
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Post by Paul A. Kaiser on Jan 16, 2009 22:39:01 GMT -5
That is an honest answer... And I suppose I would have to say I have the same thoughts when it comes to the Pelegian/Semi at times. However what you said here is quite different then what was stated previously. It is one thing to say that a person is in error theologically and an entirely different thing to say the God that I worship is not worthy of praise, adoration, love or trust!
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 17, 2009 19:14:03 GMT -5
Can a God who wanted sin to happen, and a God who didn't want sin to happen, be considered the "same God"?
No.
Can a God who wanted a sinless universe, and a God who wanted a sinful universe, be considered the same God?
No.
Those who believe in Moral Government Theology, and those who believe in Calvinistic Theology, simply do not worship the same God. More and more I am starting to see Calvinism as its own religion.
The more I learn about Calvinism, the more I am coming to these conclusions. It is possible for Christians to be deceived into this theology for a time, but if they continue to seek after God and after the truth, I do not believe that they will stay in that theology for too long. I believed in Calvinistic predestination for a few months, because of Romans 9, but as I continued to study the Bible, I eventually better understood Romans 9. But I never believed that sin was the eternal plan of God. I never thought that God wanted us to sin, so I guess I was never fully a Calvinist.
But the attitude I have received from many Calvinists is that you are either a Calvinist or you are a heretic. In other words, if you are not a Calvinist, you are not saved. And they also refer to the "god" of Open Theism as a false God. So I guess I am just joining the division by saying that the god of Calvinism is a false god, and that Calvinism is heresy.
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Post by Steve Noel on Jan 17, 2009 19:33:54 GMT -5
Can a God who wanted sin to happen, and a God who didn't want sin to happen, be considered the "same God"? No. Can a God who wanted a sinless universe, and a God who wanted a sinful universe, be considered the same God? No. Those who believe in Moral Government Theology, and those who believe in Calvinistic Theology, simply do not worship the same God. More and more I am starting to see Calvinism as its own religion. The more I learn about Calvinism, the more I am coming to these conclusions. It is possible for Christians to be deceived into this theology for a time, but if they continue to seek after God and after the truth, I do not believe that they will stay in that theology for too long. I believed in Calvinistic predestination for a few months, because of Romans 9, but as I continued to study the Bible, I eventually better understood Romans 9. But I never believed that sin was the eternal plan of God. Jesse, You have said that you would be surprised if Whitefield or Spurgeon were not in heaven. Yet both of these men were educated Calvinists. That is, they were not ignorant of the arguments against their theology. In fact, both defended Calvinism. You say that you believe that true Christians can be deceived by this theology for a time but if they seek God and truth they will come out of it. You made it clear here that you do not think the Calvinists worships or serves the God of the Bible. I guess I don't understand how you can view any studied Calvinist as a Christian then. I am grieved that you've come to this place Jesse. I believe you've gone too far. I'm contemplating removing myself from your MB as a result of these posts. Steve
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Post by fs on Jan 18, 2009 13:51:36 GMT -5
Jesse, here is a thought. Maybe with this ban God is trying to tell you something,. like maybe how some of the nonchristians on the board who should have been witnessed to were banned by you and how this was a bad call you made. Maybe God is showing you how I am sure some of these people felt!
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miche
New Member
... among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life ... (Philippians 2:15
Posts: 47
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Post by miche on Jan 19, 2009 16:02:09 GMT -5
Surely your not saying that Jesus Christ is not a devout Calvinist's Lord and Savior are you Jesse?
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