jsides
Junior Member
Posts: 81
|
Post by jsides on Jan 2, 2009 23:44:44 GMT -5
What unites all Christians ? When should we separate and on what Doctrinal Positions ? Some claim John Calvin was a heretic some claim Charles Finney was. How should you treat me or the other as a brother who just may need correction or an enemy of Christ?
|
|
|
Post by benjoseph on Jan 3, 2009 1:12:28 GMT -5
Those are some good questions. I believe it is absolutely imperative that Christians be of one mind. I think we have to know exactly what a Christian is, does, believes, etc. and what a Christian is not, does not, believes not, etc. I don't have all the answers yet, but I think one of the biggest issues is SIN. Sinning and not sinning don't mix. Once it is established that sin is completely off limits, out of the question, etc. then I think there can be progress in areas of misunderstanding. I'm looking forward to seeing other replies to this. These are a few verses that came to mind.
2Jn 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
|
|
|
Post by benjoseph on Jan 3, 2009 6:35:19 GMT -5
This is a trick question. They shouldn't.
|
|
jsides
Junior Member
Posts: 81
|
Post by jsides on Jan 4, 2009 14:56:58 GMT -5
This is not a trick question what if the professing Christian is above reproach and not practicing sin except the very sin they are accused of is heretical doctrine.
|
|
|
Post by benjoseph on Jan 4, 2009 18:03:10 GMT -5
I meant real Christians should not separate. What do you mean? Can you give an example?
|
|
jsides
Junior Member
Posts: 81
|
Post by jsides on Jan 4, 2009 18:11:44 GMT -5
Sure this very forum while many of us here disagree on very important issues at what point should we divide say in evangelising together. Would you consider a Modalist a Christian and so forth.
|
|
|
Post by jackjackson on Jan 4, 2009 18:54:54 GMT -5
Even the Pharisee's and Saducees went to Temple together. They didn't usually go to synogouge together, but had one Temple.
|
|
|
Post by benjoseph on Jan 4, 2009 19:59:36 GMT -5
I don't know what modalism is. Isn't that a trinitarian doctrine? I'm not a preacher but I don't think folks should go out together preaching if they're gonna be saying two different things. Christians are supposed to be of one mind.
All doctrine should be reducible to a biblical definition of Love. Any doctrine that does not glorify Love above all else is wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 4, 2009 20:08:50 GMT -5
Paul said that we should seperate from someone who calls themselves a "brother" but yet has sin in their life. For example, we are not to fellowship with someone who calls himself a brother yet is involved in fornication or adultery.
I refuse to sit under a Pastor for example who says that he sins every day, or who says that we all have sin in our lives. We are supposed to seperate from those who claim the name of Christ but who do not depart from iniquity.
|
|
jsides
Junior Member
Posts: 81
|
Post by jsides on Jan 5, 2009 21:33:13 GMT -5
Modalist- Someone who denies the teaching of the Triune Godhead. While they would affirm Jesus is God they deny God exist in three persons. I do not know how often a Christian sins how could I. Think of it like this if it helps can I be a Christian and not sin even for one minute I believe so what about 30 mins perhaps a full day maybe but what would that kind of obedience take what I do know is through Christ I can do all things so you may say see then you have the ability through Christ to never sin again. Lets examine this a bit further keeping that scripture in mind how many verses of scripture do u know one maybe ten what about a whole book do you know any one who has memorized the whole bible why not if every Christian can do all things through Christ. The point is my desire is to never sin again but what if I do scripture makes it clear I have an advocate before the Father. God is love and any doctrine that does not glorify God is a doctrine of demons therefore if any one teaches a false doctrine should be anathema. So the question remains what if we disagree on doctrine?
|
|
|
Post by debonnaire on Jan 6, 2009 9:08:09 GMT -5
It is at the shadow of the Cross, that Jesus prayed that all His disciples should be one as Father and Son are one. That the same love that the Father loved the Son , will be in them all. That they will be sanctified by the Truth.
Truth and Love , at the Cross.
Jesus did not prayed this prayer for the world , nor did He prayed this prayer for "christians" who are not His disciples. he who does not deny himself and takes up his cross can not be my disciple Jesus says.
Only believers who have taken their cross can agree in the Truth and love God with God's love , and be in unity with each other.
Scriptures are clear that we must seperate of all babylonish system (that includes of course churches teaching false doctrine and the ones that imitate the world) and from brethren who willingly sin , such was the one in the church of Corinth, and such were some false teachers and contradictors mentionned by Paul.
|
|
jsides
Junior Member
Posts: 81
|
Post by jsides on Jan 6, 2009 11:12:45 GMT -5
Debonnaire while I agree with your comment it seems more of a general application. Here is an example Benny Hinn made a comment one time when someone was refuting him in an effort to halt such criticism he said -Jesus said u are either for me or against me then Benny replied Im for Jesus who are you for? I do not think Benny is for Christ in fact by that statement Im implying Benny is an anti-christ some may say well u just disagree on certain things and while I do disagree with some Christians on certain issues what in your opinion what is fundamental in calling ourselves a Christian?
|
|
|
Post by debonnaire on Jan 6, 2009 15:41:40 GMT -5
Christians are united in Spirit with the Author of their salvation, saved by faith in the sacrifice of the Son of God alone , by grace and not by works so that no one boasts except in the Cross
The letter to Titus is good to point what Christians are , what they believe and how they should live
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. [Titus 2:11-14]
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. [Titus 3:3-8]
By the way the letter continues with a warning and authorisation to separate from a certain type of persons who trouble the flock with quarrels about the Law ......... But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him [Titus 3:9-10]
Hey, Jsides , your example of Benny Hinn is scary. Hinn here was clearly practising manipulation just like a politician. Maybe he is completely immature , anyway using verses of division just to justify his point has never justified anyone.
|
|
|
Post by Brother. Ross on Jan 6, 2009 22:15:35 GMT -5
Paul said that we should seperate from someone who calls themselves a "brother" but yet has sin in their life. For example, we are not to fellowship with someone who calls himself a brother yet is involved in fornication or adultery. I refuse to sit under a Pastor for example who says that he sins every day, or who says that we all have sin in our lives. We are supposed to seperate from those who claim the name of Christ but who do not depart from iniquity. Amen.
|
|
|
Post by bounbough on Jan 7, 2009 19:14:42 GMT -5
1Cor 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2 Thess 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
|
|
|
Post by bounbough on Jan 7, 2009 19:18:07 GMT -5
1Cor 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
2Thess 3:14-15 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
|
|