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Post by Brother. Ross on Mar 28, 2009 17:36:07 GMT -5
Can somebody point to a scripture to show me that the gifts are not available today.
1 Cor 8: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
These scriptures show that they will not be done away until we see Christ face to face!
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Mar 28, 2009 19:40:02 GMT -5
Can somebody point to a scripture to show me that the gifts are not available today. 1 Cor 8: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. These scriptures show that they will not be done away until we see Christ face to face! Actually the Apostle Paul was not dealing with apples and oranges.
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Post by steve spidell on Mar 29, 2009 13:14:47 GMT -5
Jonathan,
That's not an answer, would you please explain?
So, from what i gather from your post, you believe the baptism of the Spirit was definitely speaking another language (or at least some manifestation) and that no one today can be baptized with the Spirit, also that it was to confirm the preaching of the Apostles.
So, if that's the case, why wouldn't we need confirmation today? I'm assuming you will say because we have the written Word.
My main objective in my original post was to find out what MGT thoughts were on this subject. But, then Joe made some statements that i wanted to clear up.
I don't really have any more questions about 1Cor 12-14, but thanks anyway.
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Post by joemccowan on Mar 30, 2009 14:30:13 GMT -5
Just noticed that the thread missed an obvious question;
Do some of you guys believe in two Baptisms? Do you reject the Nicene Creed?
.... I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
The Church, as divided as it was by the time of the Council of Nice, universally accepted this creed as the standard of orthodoxy. Any concept outside this basic creed was considered heresy. There have been all kinds of doctrines deemed heretical by various folks on this board which do not contradict the Nicene Creed, but contending for multiple baptisms is an outright rejection of it.
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Post by Brother. Ross on Mar 30, 2009 21:24:20 GMT -5
Jonathan:
Where in the scripture do you find that:
The baptism of the Holy Ghost is not for saints of today?
Was for confirming the revelation of God as revealed in the 1st century?
And that there are only 2 accounts of the Holy Ghost baptism?
When I read the Gospel's and the Book of The Acts I don't find that. What chapters and verses exactly are you reading??
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 5, 2009 15:56:13 GMT -5
Jonathan: Where in the scripture do you find that: The baptism of the Holy Ghost is not for saints of today? The burden of proof concerning the Baptism of the Holy Ghost for saints today is on you my friend. Was for confirming the revelation of God as revealed in the 1st century? "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him, God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with diverse miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will?" Hebrews 2:3,4 When God does something, it is for a purpose. The Apostles were not saved at the point of Holy Spirit Baptism nor was Cornelius. (Read the passages) And that there are only 2 accounts of the Holy Ghost baptism? The Bible tells us that the Apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 just as Jesus promised in Acts 1:4,5 We are told in Acts 11:15: "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, as on us at the beginning." This was in fulfilment of Joels prophecy "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh..." Acts 11:15 also shows us that other people had not been baptized with the Holy Spirit. If men had been baptized with the Holy Spirit in Joppa he would have said "Just as it happened in Joppa." Also, 6-7 years had passed since, "The beginning". These are the only recorded instances of Holy Spirit Baptism so we should be careful to speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bibles silent.
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Post by Brother. Ross on Apr 7, 2009 0:47:58 GMT -5
Acts 2:39 says its for all saints. "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Acts 2:1-4,8:14-17,10:44-46,19:1-6, and Paul spoke with tongues so he was baptized with the Holy Ghost and Jesus also was baptized in the Holy Ghost, so that there is at least 6 accounts of the Holy Ghost baptism.
The Holy Ghost baptism is for more than JUST/ONLY revealing God in the first century. That should be obvious.
The 120 were saved when they were baptized, where does it say they were not? Sinners cannot receive the baptism, Acts 2:38, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. You cannot receive the baptism without repenting.
John 9:31 says God does not hear the prayers of sinners, but in Acts 1, their prayers were being answered.
Luke 24 and Acts 1; Jesus called them disciples, he blessed them, they were continually worshiping and praising God, and in prayer and supplication, they were believers and they were obedient to Christs command. If you read Luke 24 and Acts 1 and 2 and still think they were sinners, you are very confused or just reject what is written.
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Cornelius received his baptism at the point of conversion, and I know of people who today have also.
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Post by Brother. Ross on Apr 7, 2009 0:50:17 GMT -5
And you still reject my last post
1 Cor 8: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
These scriptures show that they will not be done away until we see Christ face to face!
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 7, 2009 18:31:43 GMT -5
Acts 2:39 says its for all saints. "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." There are many gifts of the Holy Spirit. Why would you conclude that this is Holy Spirit baptism? Moreover, where is it stated that Holy Spirit Baptism is a gift. Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; And they did. John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Prove this is Holy Spirit baptism. Acts 2:1-4,8:14-17,10:44-46,19:1-6, and Paul spoke with tongues so he was baptized with the Holy Ghost and Jesus also was baptized in the Holy Ghost, so that there is at least 6 accounts of the Holy Ghost baptism. It is not recorded that Paul received Holy Spirit Baptism. Jesus was not baptized with the Holy Spirit according to the Biblically defined Holy Spirit Baptism. Speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible's silent. The Holy Ghost baptism is for more than JUST/ONLY revealing God in the first century. That should be obvious. The 120 were saved when they were baptized, where does it say they were not? Sinners cannot receive the baptism, Acts 2:38, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. You cannot receive the baptism without repenting. The scripture says the purpose of Holy Spirit baptism in Acts 2 was to “receive power” in order to be a “witness unto me (Christ) both in Jerusalem, and in all of Judaea, and in Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8) Prove it was for salvation. Moreover, prove the entire 120 received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. John 9:31 says God does not hear the prayers of sinners, but in Acts 1, their prayers were being answered. Luke 24 and Acts 1; Jesus called them disciples, he blessed them, they were continually worshiping and praising God, and in prayer and supplication, they were believers and they were obedient to Christs command. If you read Luke 24 and Acts 1 and 2 and still think they were sinners, you are very confused or just reject what is written. Clarify your point. John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not Holy Spirit Baptism. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Cornelius received his baptism at the point of conversion, Cornelius was not saved at the point of Holy Spirit Baptism because this was before he heard the words, commanded by God, to do in order to be saved. and I know of people who today have also. Don't establish doctrines on personal insight. Do so from the scriptures. When dealing with the Holy Spirit Baptism given in the scriptures we should beware of adding to it. Let's remember to use Bible definitions for the Holy Spirit Baptism and not go beyond what the scriptures have revealed.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 7, 2009 18:58:04 GMT -5
And you still reject my last post 1 Cor 8: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. These scriptures show that they will not be done away until we see Christ face to face! I don't see the word "Christ" in that verse. “Lover never faileth; but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.” 1 Corinthians 13:8 I ask the question; what were these things for? Answer: Confirmation. “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, which at first began to be spoken by the lord and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him. God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders and with diverse miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit according to his own will.” Hebrews 2:3,4 The Miraculous gifts of prophecy, speaking in tongues, and miraculous knowledge shall be done away with. Because… “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 When will these things be done away with? Answer: When that which is perfect has come. Why? Answer: Because there will be no further need for these things. Question: Is the revelation of God perfect and complete? If so then these things have vanished away because there’s no longer a need for these things. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto every good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17 What’s your answer? “For now we see in a mirror darkly; but then, face to face; now I know in part but then shall I know even as also I am known.” 1 Corinthians 13:12 Question: What do you see in a mirror? Answer: Yourself Question: Whose face would you see if you looked in a mirror? Answer: Your own. Question: Are we able to know ourselves as we are truly known? Answer: Yes. Question: What is the mirror? Answer: The perfect law of liberty (The Law of Christ.) “If any man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like a man beholding his natural face in a mirror; For he beholdeth himself and goeth his way, and immediately forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whosoever looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth in it, he being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in deed. Miraculous gifts are no longer needed because the Gospel has been preached and presented to all of Creation. (Colossians 1:23)
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 7, 2009 19:17:49 GMT -5
The gifts are available today!
But not to Babylonian's that preach a false gospel! SUnday sacredness, life after death the immortality of the soul! And other hateful abominations are not going to be blessed with the HOLY SPIRIT!
What gospel would the LORD be supoporting if He gave a gift to a false church, preaching false doctrine?
The idea is sickening! Sunday churches are not allowed to have the gifts! Never have and never will!
If there is a some supernatural power in a Sunday church then it is from Satan and not from Christ! The law must be obeyed! If you break the law (Sabbath) you can not be blessed for your rebellion!
The gifts are in the true church! The faithful Sabbath keepers that have the Spirit of Prophecy are always blessed with Jesus' love and care so the true gospel can go out!
You are hoping in vain for the gifts, you are in sin breaking the Seventh Day Sabbath. The Bible is so so so so so so so so clear on the Sabbath in the New Testamnet! You will not get the gift in willful falsehood! Study the issue with an open heart and you will see that Sunday worship is a blasphemous abomination and that Jesus Christ hates it! Sunday worship is a lie! It is a tradition! It is SIN!!! It breaks the Law of God!
The sabbath is the 4th commandment! What reason do you give for not worshipping on the day Jesus Christ told you to worship on?
What will be your excuse on judgment day?
Your pride is killing you! You will not humble yourself and study to see if the issue is true!
You are all Roman Catholics and do not know it! You follow the Pope and are not aware of it!
Sunday worship is the Roman Catholic Day of worship! It is not now or ever has been a Christian institution! It is pure pagan, just as the Easter Bunny, and Satan claus! Sunday worship is hatred of truth!
Goodtidings!
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 7, 2009 20:12:59 GMT -5
The gifts are available today! But not to Babylonian's that preach a false gospel! SUnday sacredness, life after death the immortality of the soul! And other hateful abominations are not going to be blessed with the HOLY SPIRIT! What gospel would the LORD be supoporting if He gave a gift to a false church, preaching false doctrine? The idea is sickening! Sunday churches are not allowed to have the gifts! Never have and never will! If there is a some supernatural power in a Sunday church then it is from Satan and not from Christ! The law must be obeyed! If you break the law (Sabbath) you can not be blessed for your rebellion! The gifts are in the true church! The faithful Sabbath keepers that have the Spirit of Prophecy are always blessed with Jesus' love and care so the true gospel can go out! You are hoping in vain for the gifts, you are in sin breaking the Seventh Day Sabbath. The Bible is so so so so so so so so clear on the Sabbath in the New Testamnet! You will not get the gift in willful falsehood! Study the issue with an open heart and you will see that Sunday worship is a blasphemous abomination and that Jesus Christ hates it! Sunday worship is a lie! It is a tradition! It is SIN!!! It breaks the Law of God! The sabbath is the 4th commandment! What reason do you give for not worshipping on the day Jesus Christ told you to worship on? What will be your excuse on judgment day? Your pride is killing you! You will not humble yourself and study to see if the issue is true! You are all Roman Catholics and do not know it! You follow the Pope and are not aware of it! Sunday worship is the Roman Catholic Day of worship! It is not now or ever has been a Christian institution! It is pure pagan, just as the Easter Bunny, and Satan claus! Sunday worship is hatred of truth! Goodtidings! Once again, you have failed to establish Biblical Authority for the things you practice.
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Post by steve spidell on Apr 7, 2009 22:31:42 GMT -5
Hey Jonathan, what do you consider to be the baptism of the Holy Ghost? not it's purpose, but what it actually is/was. You've commented on what it is/was not, so could you tell us your view on what it is/was, please? thanks in advance
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 8, 2009 6:13:57 GMT -5
Hey Jonathan, what do you consider to be the baptism of the Holy Ghost? not it's purpose, but what it actually is/was. You've commented on what it is/was not, so could you tell us your view on what it is/was, please? thanks in advance I've also written what it was but I'll write it again; Holy Spirit Baptism, as defined by the Bible, is an action that Jesus directly performs on an individual. Resulting in Miraculous gifts (which have a purpose). Not all impartation's of Miraculous Gifts necessitate Holy Spirit Baptism. There's also the laying on of the hands of the Apostles. Nor should we believe that every instance of "filled" (Pimplemi - Greek) necessitates Holy Spirit baptism. Compare Matthew 3:11 Acts 1:4-9; 21-3. We must define Holy Spirit Baptism by examining the explicit promise of it.
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Post by steve spidell on Apr 8, 2009 10:29:24 GMT -5
Jonathan, So, the promise was only to the apostles? and it is when Jesus gave miraculous gifts to them?
From what i understand you saying then, is, the baptism of the Holy Ghost is the gifting of miraculous gifts by Jesus to the apostles.
Is that an accurate definition of your view?
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 12, 2009 21:09:15 GMT -5
joemcowan,
Hebrews 6:1-2-One of the principles of the doctrines of Christ is the doctrine of baptism(s)-plural.
If the Nicene Creed or anyone else rejects Hebrews 6:1-2 doctrines of Christ including baptism(s) then they are wrong.
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 12, 2009 21:12:20 GMT -5
Paul spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:18) and thanked God he did it more than anyone!
Jesus said those that believe in Him would speak in tongues (Mark 16).
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 13, 2009 6:11:53 GMT -5
Paul spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:18) and thanked God he did it more than anyone! Jesus said those that believe in Him would speak in tongues (Mark 16). And they did.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 13, 2009 6:14:22 GMT -5
joemcowan, Hebrews 6:1-2-One of the principles of the doctrines of Christ is the doctrine of baptism(s)-plural. If the Nicene Creed or anyone else rejects Hebrews 6:1-2 doctrines of Christ including baptism(s) then they are wrong. That verse doesn't prove there's more than one baptism today. The Nicene Creed quotes Ephesians 4:5 "... one Lord, one faith, one baptism." I don't believe the Nicene Creed, I believe the Bible.
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 13, 2009 8:12:51 GMT -5
The one baptism is a literal act of submersion in water (as symbol of death to self) and a spiritual act (the Holy Spirit's life in us by faith).
We go to the water! Then the Water of Life comes to us!
We choose death to our will! The Holy Spirit gives life to His will!
We die to sin, and the Holy Spirit is our life in righteousness!
"Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. He was condemned for our sins, in which He had no share, that we might be justified by His righteousness, in which we had no share. He suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which was His. "With His stripes we are healed." Desire of Ages pg 25.
Goodtidings
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Post by steve spidell on Apr 13, 2009 10:54:39 GMT -5
Jonathan said:
Right here my friend:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
If this is not the baptism, then what is it? Can you receive without being filled? Isn't Acts 1:4-9 the promise of Acts 2:4. And isn't Acts 2:38 speaking of that same promise?
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And i'm, also, still waiting for an answer to my last question, if my assessment of your view is right.
Thanks in advance for responding.
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 13, 2009 23:36:03 GMT -5
In Ephesians 2:8 grace is the gift!
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: KJV
Hebrews 10:29
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?KJV
In Hebrews 10:29 the gift of grace is called the Spirit!
We conclude that the gift of grace is the gift of the Holy Spirit!
Grace is a word that is used to describe the power that comes to the life when we receive the Holy Spirit!
Grace is the Holy Spirit! It is the GIFT!
Goodtidings
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 13, 2009 23:40:20 GMT -5
Praise God for the Gift of the Holy Spirit! That is truly gracious!
Goodtidings
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Post by Brother. Ross on Apr 16, 2009 0:35:13 GMT -5
Whenever a passage is presented as a rebuttal you switch the point and make a different argument, deal with the points at hand,
I shown you there were more than 2 occasions of the baptism in the Bible. Also, do you believe The Apostle Paul was baptized in the spirit?
In acts 2:38,39 Peter is clearly talking about the Holy Ghost, does Joel 2 come to mind,
Prove the 120 were all baptized with the spirit: Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. What does ALL mean to you.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe... Do people still believe today?
So there is no need for prophecy or gifts when God is revealed to someone, hmmm, that makes no sense, FACE to FACE, what doe's that mean to you? he was not talking about himself. If you think the Gifts are not needed you are a naive, dead dried up, bench warmer not realizing the whole world is headed for hell.
Please, I am giving you Bible, that is what I read and that is my final authority for all doctrine.
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Post by Brother. Ross on Apr 16, 2009 0:48:03 GMT -5
Whitehead you are confused!
In one post you wrote The apostles were baptized in Acts 2 like Jesus promised, "The Bible tells us that the Apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 just as Jesus promised in Acts 1:4,5"
Then in another you state this concerning Acts 2: "Why would you conclude that this is Holy Spirit baptism?"
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
33:Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
38:Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Peter's sermon is dealing with the Holy Ghost baptism, what else would he be referring to?
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 16, 2009 16:30:35 GMT -5
What is the doctrine of Baptism(s) (plural) that is one of the doctrines of Christ?
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 16, 2009 18:14:53 GMT -5
Whenever a passage is presented as a rebuttal you switch the point and make a different argument, deal with the points at hand, I refuted all the passages you listed, look above. I shown you there were more than 2 occasions of the baptism in the Bible. No you didn't. Also, do you believe The Apostle Paul was baptized in the spirit? Speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible's silent. In acts 2:38,39 Peter is clearly talking about the Holy Ghost, does Joel 2 come to mind, The men in Acts 2:37 were asking what they should do to escape the wrath of God. It would be ridiculous for the Apostle Peter to tell them how to get miraculous spiritual gifts when they asked how to escape the wrath of God. Example: Guy: How do I start your car? Me: Open the door and the windshield whippers will go off. The gift of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:38 is salvation. Prove the 120 were all baptized with the spirit: Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. What does ALL mean to you. Them, they, all: Refer back to the Apostles as stated in verse 26 of chapter 1. The text is clear; Acts 2:7 indicates that all those who were speaking in tongues were Galileans. I wouldn't presume that the entire 120 were Galileans. Acts 2:14 Tells us who the men in verse 7 were referring to... "Peter, standing up with the eleven..." Acts 2:37 shows us once again who the multitude spoke to... "...Peter and the rest of the Apostles..." Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe... Do people still believe today? So you're telling me that the distribution of Miraculous Spiritual Gifts will cease when men cease to believe in Jesus? Yet, the Bible tells us at one point they will cease. Are you saying that when these gifts cease, everyone will cease to believe in Jesus? Thus, heaven will be filled with unbelievers? So there is no need for prophecy or gifts when God is revealed to someone, hmmm, that makes no sense, FACE to FACE, what doe's that mean to you? he was not talking about himself. Since you don't understand, I would suggest reading my post again. If you think the Gifts are not needed you are a naive, dead dried up, bench warmer not realizing the whole world is headed for hell. "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation..." Romans 1:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16,17 Please, I am giving you Bible, that is what I read and that is my final authority for all doctrine. You're not giving "Bible." You're giving error. Error can not set a man free.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 16, 2009 18:20:49 GMT -5
Whitehead you are confused! In one post you wrote The apostles were baptized in Acts 2 like Jesus promised, "The Bible tells us that the Apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 just as Jesus promised in Acts 1:4,5" Then in another you state this concerning Acts 2: "Why would you conclude that this is Holy Spirit baptism?" Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 33:Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 38:Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Peter's sermon is dealing with the Holy Ghost baptism, what else would he be referring to? I'm not sure whether or not you actually read my posts. Either you skimmed my posts or your attempting to slander my name and rob my statements of their context. In which case, these are all characteristics of a false teacher.
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Post by steve spidell on Apr 16, 2009 22:37:55 GMT -5
Jonathan said:
What? are you saying we have to speak in tongues to be saved??
Speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where the Bible is silent!
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 17, 2009 6:28:17 GMT -5
Jonathan said: What? are you saying we have to speak in tongues to be saved?? Speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where the Bible is silent! False teaching always begins with a false presupposition and twisting someones words.
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