|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 15, 2009 14:38:20 GMT -5
I used to be very hard core concerning THE BELIEVER defending themselves when it comes to violence. I always have taken the stance that GOD would protect the righteous and cause vengeance to the enemy. And that the BELIEVER should totally trust in HIM. I have gone according to this scripture:
Matthew 5:38-44, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Lately, we have been getting many break ins into our homes in the wicked city. I actually warned the citizens of this in 2005 that the crime rate was going to increase after God showed me in a number of dreams.
Lately I been thinking of getting a firearm for protection.
What are your opinions on this? Do you believe THE BELIEVER should fight back when their life is in jeopardy?
|
|
|
Post by judgment on Feb 16, 2009 9:57:44 GMT -5
If you used that gun on yourself you would do us all a favor.
|
|
|
Post by fs on Feb 16, 2009 15:59:36 GMT -5
Not nice at all. I apologize. Forgive the less informed of the brethren. For anyone interested, "Judgment " may be reached at tuscyguild@yahoo.com or tuscyguild@hotmail.com and I am not sure off my head which it is. U wash my hands of the mess I partially caused.
Fight to your heart's content. I am sick of it.
|
|
|
Post by debonnaire on Feb 16, 2009 17:04:38 GMT -5
i would not defend myself during an attack, whether it is by a violent person or by an evil system [suck as Gestapo or dictatorial like systems].
I don't have weapons and never will have. It is true though that there is less violence in Europe than in other continents. Still it could happen, but i trust the Lord with all my heart and faith. I have seen His faithfulness already. Better have a strong communion with the Lord to know what to do , by example to flee elsewhere if needed and if possible.
And if i will be one of those who are destined to the sword or to prison when it will come to refuse the mark of the Beast, let it be so.
Here a testimony by Tom an American bro
In 1989 two masked robbers of a grocery store attempted to murder me. I stumbled upon an armed robbery and was the only one in the store other than the manager who was being robbed and assaulted. One of the armed men put a gun to my head and locked the entrance to the store. He led me at gunpoint to the back of the store and made me lay face down on the floor. He then told me to kiss my tail goodbye and that it was a shame I had shown up when I did. My natural mind was in complete terror and flashes of my wife and three young children filled my thoughts. My children would grow up without their father. My wife, could she carry on without me? How would she provide for our children on one income? All of these thoughts flooded my mind in micro seconds. BUT SUDDENLY!!!!!!!!!
Suddenly my spiritual mind took control and I began to praise Jesus out loud, audibly. My voice began to rise and I told Jesus I was ready to meet Him if He was ready for me. I then began to tell Him how much I loved Him. I never once addressed the murderous thief, yet something happened to him as I spoke to Jesus. The masked man lowered his gun from the back of my head, grabbed his partner and fled the store! The manager's life was saved as well as mine. He told me later that he could here me praising God all the way at the front of the store and the thug that was robbing him heard it too. His first thoughts were that I needed to shut up and maybe they would "spare" us both. But he too witnessed the ire of these men and also had come to the conclusion that they meant to kill us. We were both rejoicing that we had been "rescued" not by the police, but by God.
|
|
|
Post by debonnaire on Feb 16, 2009 17:12:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 16, 2009 19:36:08 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 16, 2009 20:09:19 GMT -5
After a few days of thinking and praying, I have come to conclusion as I have in the past; That God is more than able to preserve me in harms way. I am now almost ashamed that I even thought of arming myself. Would the early church fathers defend themselves in a way. Not only would they not; but they did not. Everyone of them were persecuted for Christ sake and lifted not one finger to defend themselves physically.
Because of this thread that I have come up with; I have concluded that I have slid backwards concerning my faith and Trust in Christ. I must and will seek the FACE of GOD in a greater way for this weakness I am at.
|
|
|
Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 16, 2009 20:10:50 GMT -5
I taught a class about persecution once, and I suggested that it's perfectly fine to defend yourself by fleeing, ducking and or calling the police. And I certainly think that is within loving your neighbor and enemy to subdue someone who may be threatening the life of someone, even YOU...because if they are going to hurt your (assuming for preaching the Gospel)...what would they do to someone who really crosses them?
|
|
rwrf
New Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by rwrf on Feb 16, 2009 21:26:55 GMT -5
If someone threatens you life or the lives of those under your care, then you should retaliate with force and deadly force if necessary. If you don't have a gun, then buy one and practice using it.
|
|
rwrf
New Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by rwrf on Feb 16, 2009 23:28:33 GMT -5
Rhema Seeker, God is more than able to feed you as well, but he expects you to pick up your spoon and feed yourself. Why would you consider defending yourself as a lack of trust in Christ?
|
|
|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 17, 2009 7:40:13 GMT -5
Rhema Seeker, God is more than able to feed you as well, but he expects you to pick up your spoon and feed yourself. Why would you consider defending yourself as a lack of trust in Christ? Well, I believe that as a believer, who is Spirit filled with the presence of a HOLY GOD; that same SPIRIT that indwelt our SAVIOUR; that I ought to seek in giving a person life, and not take one. No doubt, this person would go straight to hell, if I did kill them for trying to kill me. I am called to minister the Gospel of Life so that I can get as many as possible into the KINGDOM OF GOD. Then too, I look it at this point. If my body is killed in such an attack, then I am truly blessed to be with my Heavenly Fathers' Presence.
|
|
rwrf
New Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by rwrf on Feb 17, 2009 10:36:49 GMT -5
Well, I believe that as a believer, who is Spirit filled with the presence of a HOLY GOD; that same SPIRIT that indwelt our SAVIOUR; that I ought to seek in giving a person life, and not take one. No doubt, this person would go straight to hell, if I did kill them for trying to kill me. I am called to minister the Gospel of Life so that I can get as many as possible into the KINGDOM OF GOD. Then too, I look it at this point. If my body is killed in such an attack, then I am truly blessed to be with my Heavenly Fathers' Presence. It is definitely a sorrowful thing for a sinner to die and go to hell, but it's not wrong. God clearly teaches in the Bible that those who commit capital crimes should forfeit their lives (see God's command to Noah after the flood for an example). To allow someone to commit murder when you have the power to stop them, even if they are murdering you, seems to me grossly negligent at best and outright sinful at worst.
|
|
|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 17, 2009 10:55:08 GMT -5
i WAS ONCE ONE OF THOSE SINNERS WHO DESERVED HELL. jUST AS GUILTY AS A MURDERER.
|
|
|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 17, 2009 11:01:26 GMT -5
SINFUL?
Jesus was murdered on a cross as an inocent man can be. He could have called legions of Angels to defend Him. But did not.
|
|
|
Post by debonnaire on Feb 17, 2009 14:01:09 GMT -5
Amen Rhema Seeker !
rwrf, your opinion is not supported at all by the Gospel.
Christians are not followers of David, and the other men of God of the O.T who had a sword.
Now Jesus has come ! He says to not fear those who can kill the body but can't kill the soul. But to fear the One who can make perish both the soul and the body in the Gehenna.
|
|
|
Post by fs on Feb 17, 2009 19:26:20 GMT -5
The Bible says there is a time to fight, does it not!
|
|
|
Post by debonnaire on Feb 18, 2009 1:14:53 GMT -5
but against WHO ?
visible men of flesh and blood, or the invisible powers of darkness ?
If something is not supported by the revelation of the New Testament, i don't want to conform myself to it.
|
|
rwrf
New Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by rwrf on Feb 18, 2009 10:32:21 GMT -5
Rhema, the death of Christ at the hands of murderers served a purpose. Namely in providing for the atonement of sins. What noble purpose is served by you giving up your right to defend yourself?
Let me pose this scenario. You're wife and adult children are all lost in their sins. An intruder comes into your house with guns blazing. Do you pull the shotgun out the closet and send the intruder to hell, or allow him to snuff out the precious short time your family members have to repent?
|
|
|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 18, 2009 13:36:39 GMT -5
RWRF, have you ever heard of the Jim Elliot story. How these missionaries went to the Amazon to reach lost tribes with the Gospel. When this tribe attacked the missionaries, the missionaries did not defend themselves with deadly force. They had rifles but refused to used them and actually allowed themselves to be killed by these headhunters. Many years later these same missionary families go back to the same tribe and reached out to them the WORD OF GOD and win their hearts to the LORD. I am trying to get this post out quickly and am not doing it just. But please read the story, I believe it to be very inspiring of what God can do when we are led by HIS SPIRIT and not our flesh. Here is one link to many of the story, www.atanycost.org/DidTheyHaveToDie.htm
|
|