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Post by benjoseph on Mar 11, 2009 20:13:20 GMT -5
For example, if someone was going to murder your child and killing the attacker was the minimal force needed to protect your child... What are your rights and duties? Why? Are they God-given rights or government-given rights? Please explain your vote.
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Post by benjoseph on Mar 13, 2009 7:33:41 GMT -5
What a bummer! I didn't realize the question got cut off! It should have said "Is the use of necessary and reasonable force to defend a child against the unlawful violation of the RIGHT TO LIVE....A, B, or C...etc." I don't see an option to modify it...I will wait and see if anyone decyphers the question as is and repost the poll question if necessary. Sorry for confusing you!
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Post by debonnaire on Mar 13, 2009 7:34:06 GMT -5
Does that suppose that one has to have a weapon to answer the poll ?
Isn't there other ways to defend your beloved ones ?
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Post by benjoseph on Mar 13, 2009 7:38:10 GMT -5
"necessary and reasonable force" would only mean a weapon if the use of a weapon was reasonably understood as necessary to prevent the murder. If it only required knocking someone out, restraining them, wounding them, etc. then those would be the responses in question. "necessary and reasonable force" includes any or all of those.
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Post by debonnaire on Mar 13, 2009 10:46:15 GMT -5
Okay.
I see nothing wrong in 'bullying' 'knocking down' such guys who threatens to kill innocent people , a child , or rape a woman , if it is the solution for the moment ...
Christians need to be filled with the Holy Spirit every day, so to act courageously and responsably in every situation.
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Post by benjoseph on Mar 15, 2009 12:09:26 GMT -5
Hi debonnaire, I don't understand your answer. Do you think there is a right to use limited force but not a right to use necessary force if that force becomes lethal? Or do you think there is a right to use necessary force whether it is lethal or not? Which answer from the options above matches your belief? Did you choose "Not a right and not a duty"?
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Post by debonnaire on Mar 15, 2009 14:44:21 GMT -5
Hi bro, it is not me be who have voted this, i have not voted yet.
What i believe is that Christians need to be filled with the Holy Spirit, not for being ready for everything that can happen, but because scriptures say to be filled, it is the will of God, to glorify His name and be His witnesses. This said while we are filled with the Holy Spirit there is more chances to be ready for what can happen around us and react appropriately to the situations. So yes , force can be used to defend a weak against the agressor, why not ? but a word of authority by the Holy Spirit can also do the trick , the important is to be led by the Holy Spirit and not man led.
Thinking about arming oneself with weapons (in case of) ain't good , and expecting about these things to happen isn't good either ; it is funny that this question is a recurrent topic on several Christians forums recently.
EDIT : After considering all other options, have finally voted for : Not a Right and not a Duty
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Post by markgavin on Mar 15, 2009 19:13:11 GMT -5
I think we as Christians should be ready to protect the weak and oppressed, even if it means taking a life (force paralleling force of course).
on the other hand if someone is trying to kill me for Jesus' or the Gospels sake, that is a different story all together we are to lose our lives for Him.
Just my 2 cents
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 15, 2009 19:58:17 GMT -5
I agree.
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Post by benjoseph on Mar 16, 2009 9:14:01 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree as well. I appreciate you making the distinction between martyrdom and defense markgavin! I think that is a very important topic.
deb, would you please explain your answer for me? It sounded like you were thinking it through as you went. What made up your mind about it?
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Post by debonnaire on Mar 16, 2009 9:58:33 GMT -5
Yep, i was thinking it through as i went. I've recalled the situations i've been thru that could be related with this topic, and also if there was examples of this in the NT
what made up my mind ? Well, none of the other options satisfied me better. God wants us to defend the oppressed, the widow , the orphan, etc...so i could have voted for "It is a God's given right and duty" but i'm not sure if that includes the right and the duty to use weapons, and if we can use OT prooftexts on the usage of weapons to justify our beliefs.
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Post by benjoseph on Mar 17, 2009 18:33:15 GMT -5
thanks for elaborating debonnaire. I was trying to understand your reasoning here and I was having a hard time figuring out what lead to your uncertainty about weapons and the old testament. Do you think the burden of proof belongs to those who advocate the use of necessary force to defend others, or with those who deny that such a right exists?
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