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Post by christlover on Mar 23, 2009 12:56:14 GMT -5
Jonah was also rebuked by God after his converting the people away from sins so eh was a collossal dud in spite of what may be seen on the surface. You are only reading part of the story. He sat up on a hill waiting for the bif show and had no pity or compassion for the people of Nineveh. Jonah is nothing to brag about, sucecsswise Know before you talk, PATOC. This si a classic czase of someone taking a portion fot eh Bibel and moldign itt o say what they want yo say, when it is nothing of the kind. The context in whcih Bold speaks has the bigger picture of the stiory and makes a fine point.
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BroPatOC
New Member
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Posts: 42
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Post by BroPatOC on Mar 23, 2009 14:30:07 GMT -5
Your point was Jonah was a bad preacher. He'd have better results if he was more loving. Preach the truth in love, etc. You are implying that many open air preachers do not ever show compassion or meet the practical needs of anyone and that there is therefore little or no fruit. This is an assumption on your part. My point is that here we have a clear case of someone not loving and preaching judgment. Yet he batted 1000. Of course, we don't judge success by counting heads. Noah was a preacher of righteousness and yet no one listened. I think he was successful anyways. Also, I didn't "mold" anything. I just gave you one fact. I've read Jonah many times as well your description of him above. I don't think your following your own standard in the way you are responding to me.
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Post by boldforchrist on Mar 23, 2009 14:30:25 GMT -5
Jonah's preaching did result in nationwide repentance, but again, that was one verse from this book, the other 4 chapters were about Jonah being too self-righteous. Once again, we need to use all the information from the whole chapter, the whole book and the whole Bible, and not just one verse. By the way, Jonah was just a unwilling messenger, God did the convicting! But still a good point. Thanks Shane
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Post by boldforchrist on Mar 23, 2009 14:43:19 GMT -5
Heres the deal, first I never said you must preach with love! Preach the Word. I am saying when you preach the word, do not scream and call people names. Where do you learn to preach like that? Do not make yourself look like a loud mouth goof ball that no one is going to take serious. Do you want to get peoples attention, or do you want them to listen to what you have to say and sow a seed. Justify it how ever you want. I have had to witness to way too many people who have been pushed farther away. There is no excuse for it, it is almost impossiable to reach them once they are exposed to someone who looks like a radical! End of story, prove me wrong, I deal with it way too much to believe other wise. Go preach the word and leave your ego at the door my brother. THis is not about you or me but about Christ and if you do not believe that than you are preaching for your ego and for no other reason. WHy is this hard to understand?
When you teach your child do you put on a big sandwich board and stand in his room and scream at him? Or do you approach him and tell him in a way that he will understand and respect? It is not about holding the sinners hand and telling them you love them or Christ loves them. Do not play that card with me!
Have you seen me preach brother? Preach the Word! Preach the Word! I can go on.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 24, 2009 22:56:43 GMT -5
If you use a bullhorn, you don't even have to raise your voice.
But if you don't have a bullhorn, you have to raise your voice in order for everyone to hear you.
Jesus preached to 7,000 people. He no doubt had to raise his voice.
But you shouldn't scream. Screaming is too much. I have learned how to raise my voice very loudly without "screaming".
Name calling is biblical. We see it all over the Bible.
Sinners need to be told that they are sinners. Fornicators needs to be told that they are fornicators. Drunkards need to be told that they are drunkards.
These names help to lay a foundation for a person to understanding:
1. Why they deserve hell 2. Why they need Jesus Christ
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Post by boldforchrist on Mar 25, 2009 12:07:21 GMT -5
You are right, you do have to raise your voice, the Gospel should be preached louder than the noise around you. There is nothing wrong with using amplification either, but that is different then screaming. I have to restrain myself often when I preach, witness, hand out tracts and so forth. I get angry when people turn up their nose to the Word Of God. I can not tell you how many times I have felt like running after someone and putting them in a headlock and making them listen to the Gospel! But we can not do this of course. It becomes counter productive, me personally, I find that one will take the time to listen if you treat them with respect first. If I call a group of people "A brood of vipers" they will simply leave. What worked for John the Baptist will not always work for me. I am not he, I am me, and God knows this, and tells me to deliver His Word as me, not as Paul Washer or Charles Finney or Charles Stanley.
Maybe he calls you to preach exactly the way you do preach, if that be the case. His Will Be Done! We are trying to reach lost souls. We should use whatever style works best for us to do this. I worry that if we come off looking like nut jobs (Branch Dividians) or whatever, then we are presenting God's Holly Word in a manner that a thrift store would put an unwanted item in a bargain bin next to the check out isle.
We must present ourselves in a manner that brings Glory to His name. Open Air Preaching is vital, this country needs more and more open air preaching, more and more witnessing, more and more tracting. We need more witnessing churches. I think all of us agree that the U.S and the rest of the world, is in the mess it is in now due to sin! We have put our trust in everything but God and He is teaching us our trust must be in Him and Him only. Not our money, houses, jobs, careers or what ever.
That is why we must get out there and "Preach The Word", but lets look and act like we are doing it because we want to save their souls and we want to bring Glory to God and not look like we are a bunch of egomaniacs. This does not point to anyone in particular, but it is a problem in general.
Speaking of amplification, I found a Behringer Europort 40 watt PA system on Walmart.com, has anyone used one before? Are they any good? Thanks Shane
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Post by John McGlone on Mar 25, 2009 15:10:18 GMT -5
I have to pray about one hour before I can do 30 minutes of preaching. For me to attempt to preach on my own power always results in failure. We most certainly can do more harm than good if we preach on our own terms with our own pride controlling what comes out of our mouths. When I see someone preach on the "evils of the bikini", I have to wonder what is up. Preach the word, not your opinion, "His Holy Word" does not need any help! Let His Word do its job. Let His Spirit convict the sinners, preach the Bible and nothing else. To do anything else is just wrong no matter how you try to justify it. Brother are you implying that we are not praying, and we are trying to preach on our own power? Bikinis are wicked and the women that wear them are likely Jezebels. A godly woman is modest. 2 Tim 2 Should we not clearly call out the sins of the people? Repentance involves forsaking the wickedness they live in and loving the Lord Jesus in obedience to His gospel. They need to count the costs of following the Lord Jesus. The servant is not greater than the Master.
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Post by John McGlone on Mar 25, 2009 15:12:22 GMT -5
Jonah's preaching did result in nationwide repentance, but again, that was one verse from this book, the other 4 chapters were about Jonah being too self-righteous. Once again, we need to use all the information from the whole chapter, the whole book and the whole Bible, and not just one verse. By the way, Jonah was just a unwilling messenger, God did the convicting! But still a good point. Thanks Shane Jonah being 'self righteous'? How is being fearful to tell the wicked Ninevites to repent being prideful or self righteous? You got the last part right, Jonah was unwilling. But, we should learn from that and go and tell the world their need to repent and obey the Gospel. Amen.
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Post by christiansoldier on Mar 25, 2009 16:11:44 GMT -5
Jonah's preaching did result in nationwide repentance, but again, that was one verse from this book, the other 4 chapters were about Jonah being too self-righteous. Once again, we need to use all the information from the whole chapter, the whole book and the whole Bible, and not just one verse. By the way, Jonah was just a unwilling messenger, God did the convicting! But still a good point. Thanks Shane Jonah being 'self righteous'? How is being fearful to tell the wicked Ninevites to repent being prideful or self righteous? You got the last part right, Jonah was unwilling. But, we should learn from that and go and tell the world their need to repent and obey the Gospel. Amen. Jonah 3:10 - 4:3 But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry.He prayed to the LORD, “O LORD, is this not what I said when I was still at home? That is why I was so quick to flee to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”when God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened. Jonah was not fearful, he simply did not want them to repent. he was being self righteous. it was a wicked city, Jonah probably thought they were deserving of hell and wanted them to be punished. Jonah was fearful according to veggie tales, but that is not what the Bible says. peace, Christian Soldier
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Post by boldforchrist on Mar 25, 2009 16:33:41 GMT -5
I think Christiansoldier got it right speaking on the Veggie Tales, I know we get our beliefs ingrained in us. We think that since we have always been taught a certain thing that it must be right, that does not make it correct. We might have always been wrong.
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Post by boldforchrist on Mar 25, 2009 17:15:54 GMT -5
I have no idea if you pray or not. I should hope you do. The point I was making is that we can not preach on our own power. There is no way you can say otherwise. If you do in fact pray prior to your outreach, then you should have the desire to portray the Glory of God, not rant and rave about a sinful piece of cotton. Was this cotton that went into the making of this bikini born evil or was it learned? Come on now! We are to be saving souls, not to be laughed at by passers by. I would not stop and listen to someone preaching on the evil of the cotton! Guys, heres the deal, like it or not. We are not playing a game here. We are talking about peoples very lives! We can have a huge influence on where they spend eternity. We also are called to proclaim the Glory of God. This should be first and foremost to all of us, and I can not see how preaching to people coming out of a bar, drunk and out of their mind is going to help. They know they are sinning! They do not care, they hate God! Why else would they be getting drunk? We have to explain to them why their path is the wrong path and attempt to make them see the errors of their ways. Telling them they are going to hell because they drink! They know this already, they do not care! Telling them they are going to hell because they wear a bikini! They will laugh at you!
Well, you say, I have preached this way for years so it has to be right. No it does not, are you seeing any results. I know we are to sow seeds and let His Spirit convict the sinners. But you should every once in awhile have people show some interest.
Someone posted a reply on here that we have to preach to intoxicated people, that we can not always go to the library or court house to preach.
At least the people at the library can understand what you are saying! These drunks that you preach to, they will be around later, preach to them when they are sober. They are not always drunk. If you can catch them before they get into the bar, than great, you might do some good.
You can preach for the rest of your life like that and never convert a soul. If you have someone come to Christ afterwards, it will be in spite of that kind of preaching.
I am putting out a challenge to everyone on here. If you are preaching, examine your motives. Why are you doing it? Don't just spit out an answer in anger. Think about it. Are you truly worried about the lives of others? Are you truly worried about their salvation? Do you truly wish to proclaim the Glory of Our Heavenly Father? Or are you playing? Is this a hobby for you? Is this a ego thing for you? Think about it. Pray on it. When was the last time you spent a entire night laying in your bed awake because you were worried about the salvation of someone you hardly know? When was the last time you spent the entire night on your knees in prayer before Holy God begging Him for wisdom and strength to help you proclaim His Glory and to ask Him how you can better make the world bow down to Him as King?
Or is this something fun for you to do on the weekends? The challenge is out there. Ignore it if you want, post some verse that points to your view if you wish. We can trade scripture that shows us each to be right. That is easy. Are you willing to examine your motives? I will, will you?
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Post by pecador on Mar 27, 2009 9:33:53 GMT -5
If God hates the sinners and not just the sin as some maintain than how do we explain John 3:16 where God SO LOVED THE WORLD......
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 27, 2009 23:34:13 GMT -5
Good question, Pecador. I'm glad people are beginning to ask about the "Why's" of God - that is so vital for growth as a Christian (imo)...
Keep in mind Psalm 5:5 and other scriptures as well where God proclaims his hatred for the wicked. But you're right, God does LOVE the whole world... so what's going on here... either the Bible's a pack of lies, or God's Love and Hate are not what we think they are.
God DOES indeed love the world, why would He create it? God DOES indeed hate the sin AND the sinner, or else He would not be a just Ruler.
God loves all of the world in that He wills their good, Pecador, God is willing that no man should perish but that all should come to repentance. He loves His Saints because they have been born again as His children.
And God's HATE is not the OPPOSITE of His love. He hates them in the sense of a holy disgust and abhorrence. Sinners are rebellious to the core. I was once an awful rebel, deserving of God's swift wrath. He hated me in that I was out to destroy every good thing - that's what selfishness does.
Sin is so utterly destructive. Sinfully moral choices are so corrupting and vile to the heart, to nature. When a person makes the choice to sin, they fly in the face of God. Their conscience preaches to them, as does nature, and His influence through His people, yet they say to the Lord of All Creation "No. I want to do it MY way." And they do so in complete disregard to the true goodness of God and the horror of sin.
Pecador, sin is a horror. We would all do well to remember that. Sin is so awful that God has decided that in order to protect the Universe into eternity, he would send all those who decide to stubbornly practice sin, to place where they can no longer corrupt His wonderous creation... forever.
But thankfully, Pecador, God rejoices in mercy! That why He sent his only Son to die! So He could safely set aside His wrath in lovingkindness and forgiveness when we lay down our rebellion. He is a King or cannot tolerate rebellion, but who so longingly desired to have relationship with us that He was willing to lay down His very life for us! For dirty rebels!
Sorry about this rant... It's something deep on my heart...
Just remember: God's hate is not opposite of His love. Always ask about the "Whys" of God.
Blessings!
Jeff
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 28, 2009 9:19:04 GMT -5
John 3:16 speaks of God's benevolent care and concern for the world. Benevolence is a state of the will.
Ps. 5:5 speaks of God's hatred, abhorrence, or disgust of sinners. Abhorrence and disgust are states of the emotions. God cannot take emotional delight in the wicked.
Therefore God can both love and hate the sinner. God could have a benevolent care for the sinner, wanting him to repent and be saved, while at the same time being disgusted with him because of his character as long as he is in a state of rebellion.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 28, 2009 9:29:54 GMT -5
I have tried many methods, techniques, and styles and have found the best way to be confrontational evangelism. If you want to get people's attention, get them thinking about sin and hell, speak to them boldly and plainly about sin and hell. If you want them to see their need for Jesus Christ, tell them that they are hell deserving sinners.
The best way to preach is by going out into the public, lifting up your voice like a trumpet, confronting individuals for their personal sins, warning them about God's judgment, and pointing them towards Jesus Christ.
I know many people that have been personally converted through confrontational evangelism.
Take for example just this past outreach to Miami.
One brother we were preaching with was named Martin, who was converted under the confrontational evangelism of Brother Micah. He has completely repented of his sins and is now engaging in confrontational evangelism.
There were also two sinners during our preaching in Miami who prayed for salvation. They heard us preaching about sin, judgment, hell, and Jesus, and decided to repent of their sins and ask God for forgiveness.
There were also Christians from England who were encouraged by our ministry and a Christian from Romania who was also. That is also good fruit.
And don't forget, Cindy Smock (a confrontational preacher) a party girl was converted under Jed Smock, John Duncan (a confrontational preacher) a hypocritical professing Christian college student was converted under Jim Gilles, and Brother Robert (a confrontational preacher) was a homosexual in New Orleans converted under Ruben Israel.
Time has shown, both in ancient history and in modern history, that confrontational evangelism is very effective in radically changing the lives of individuals.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 28, 2009 11:08:22 GMT -5
I was just discussing with a friend last night:
Jesus used wonderful analogies from the world around him. He used planting in a field to describe winning souls.
THINK about what it takes to bring in a harvest.
1. You pull up all the weeds, cut down the brush and in some cases burn everything down in this field that doesn't belong.
2. You till the soil, turning it up, exposing rocks and other debris that will hinder the planting. 3. You plant your seeds. Some fall by the wayside. Some are eaten by birds. Some fall among the thorns, etc.
4. The field is watered. Fertilized.
5. You wait.... and wait.... and wait...
6. You kill weeds, you protect your field from animals that would destroy your crops as they begin to grow through the Lord's guidance.
7. When the time is right, the harvest is reaped.
This process usually involves more than one person.
Confrontational evangelism tends to involve alot of step 1 & 2.
If you've ever seen a field freshly tilled, it looks like a big mess. It's dirty and not pretty and doesn't look like anything good could come from it...what many people say about confrontational evangelism. But they forget all the other steps.
"Where's the fruit?" They cry.
Only an impatient idiot or an ignorant "city slicker" would look at a farmer tilling a field and say: "Look at what you've done! You're making a huge mess! This was a harmless meadow - now everything's all exposed and ugly! I only see dirt! Where's the fruit?"
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Post by pecador on Mar 29, 2009 7:38:52 GMT -5
No kididng. Do tell.
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2009 13:56:37 GMT -5
Here's some videos from the trip:
Jesse Getting Assaulted:
Unlawful Daytona Beach Police:
First Day On The Beach:
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osubamey
Junior Member
WTOP 10 Oswego - News Director
Posts: 62
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Post by osubamey on Apr 4, 2009 2:00:14 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but calling women prostitutes by telling them they belong on a streetcorner and mocking them like a child... you cannot really think that is going to help get your message across do you?
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