rc
Junior Member
May God be glorified 1 Cor 10:31
Posts: 63
|
Post by rc on Mar 24, 2009 23:35:20 GMT -5
How can the incorporeal mind (the immaterial soul) interact, if it indeed does to the body (the material)?
|
|
rc
Junior Member
May God be glorified 1 Cor 10:31
Posts: 63
|
Post by rc on Apr 2, 2009 1:25:19 GMT -5
I am still struggling with this issue. I think Occasionalism answers alot of my problems, but I have still yet to draw a line in the sand and accept Occasionalism.
|
|
|
Post by joemccowan on Apr 2, 2009 14:39:58 GMT -5
The better question is how does the incorporeal mind exist apart from the body. Occasionalism will create more problems for you than it will solve, but is an important part of such a study.
|
|
rc
Junior Member
May God be glorified 1 Cor 10:31
Posts: 63
|
Post by rc on Apr 9, 2009 22:56:33 GMT -5
I do not think the incorporeal mind is like the body. The mind is sort of eternal and the body is temporary.
|
|
|
Post by joemccowan on Apr 10, 2009 7:14:47 GMT -5
Why a resurrection then?
You have the statements like:
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We have no way of experiencing the incorporeal mind "externally". The separation of the two was a gnostic concept as most folks were convinced that any sort of body or anything material was evil. The only way we have ever experienced the mind is is conjunction with the body.
The view of salvation in the Early Church had much to do with the reunion of mind and body. Hades, being the place of the dead, was generally thought to be a place where the incorporeal mind exists apart from the body. Being such, it was referred to as sleep. The resurrection reunites the mind and body in order to bring us back to life through the interaction of the incorporeal mind and body. Without that interaction, we are in a state of captivity, unable to act or affect anything. In regards to God, we should be hesitant to equate the "pneuma" or "spirit" with "incorporeal mind" as it has come to be defined. The embodiment of God apart from the incarnation is a mystery which He has not fully revealed to us.
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Hopes this helps, or at least raises some questions.
Blessings, Joe
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on Apr 10, 2009 8:22:13 GMT -5
Hey Joe, Of topic a little bit but having to do with the abode of the dead as I understand the ECF believed. If we are in the upper compartment of Hades and most are in the lower compartment. Then we are not yet judged but know our eternal destiny just by our current location prior to judgment day. I don't know why I never thought of this before when I believed that believers died and are in the presence of the Lord in heaven.
|
|
|
Post by joemccowan on Apr 10, 2009 21:00:11 GMT -5
Hey Joe, Of topic a little bit but having to do with the abode of the dead as I understand the ECF believed. If we are in the upper compartment of Hades and most are in the lower compartment. Then we are not yet judged but know our eternal destiny just by our current location prior to judgment day. I don't know why I never thought of this before when I believed that believers died and are in the presence of the Lord in heaven. Exactly. The dead in Christ are awaiting redemption/re-animation, yet they are already separated from the condemned. Neither group has passed through the judgment, yet both groups know where they stand. This is why the Jews asked Jesus how to inherit eternal life; they weren't satisfied with eternal existence in hades, even apart from suffering and condemnation. They all thought they were going to Abraham's Bosom, but what they wanted was eternal life. Blessings, Joe
|
|
BroPatOC
New Member
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Posts: 42
|
Post by BroPatOC on Apr 11, 2009 10:03:09 GMT -5
What about Paul's comments:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" (2 Cor 5:8 KJV).
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:" (Phil 1:23 KJV).
Thanks,
Pat
|
|
|
Post by joemccowan on Apr 11, 2009 10:23:39 GMT -5
What about Paul's comments: "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" (2 Cor 5:8 KJV). "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:" (Phil 1:23 KJV). Thanks, Pat Remember, Paul was disputing with the Sadducee's about the resurrection of the dead, causing a dispute between them and the Pharisees. Act 23:6 But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducee's and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, "Men [and] brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!" Paul was looking forward to the resurrection as the goal; Phl 3:8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing , forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
The most convincing words of Paul on this matter are;
1Cr 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
To fall asleep in Christ is loss without the resurrection of the dead. This is why salvation is more than forgiveness, it is redemption from sin, death and hades.
Blessings, Joe
|
|