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Post by pete777 on Apr 3, 2009 5:07:12 GMT -5
This was a response to a wonderful question that was asked on a different thread, the issue covers many questions about the Law, Spirit, Gospel, Sabbath! That I thought it might be a blessing to start a new thread and discuss the big picture of how the Law is the standard of eternal life. Jesus lived that law in the flesh! THe Holy Spirit empowered Him to do it! And the Law can not be changed, therefore the Sababth remains, despite popular opinion and tradition! The question was asked if 10 guys were at a picnic and you were the first in line would you pick the biggest steak? If you picked the smallest steak would that just be a false or fake or man-made humility? This question looks at the motive of man! Man is in sin and can have no true motives but selfishness, so either choice would be done in his power and motives! Therefore, it shows us our need of the Holy SPirit to implant the pure seed of Christ in our heart, so that we can have true humility and pure motives! Anyway this was the response: I love your example of the picnic and the choice of steak! I am a vegan so we will us the example of a "Wheat gluten steak" (ha ha)! Selfishness is the character of man! It is the fallen sinful erring mortal life of an unbeliever! However! I also agree with your assessment of choosing to get the wheat gluten steak under the cover of humility! What is the difference between the choice of the biggest steak or the smallest steak? NOTHING! Both choices are sin even if the steak is “wheat gluten.” The reason is the science of the gospel and not the wisdom of man! In the flesh we cannot have pure or true motives! Our motives are wicked! If we choose the small steak we are hiding our pride and trying in the power of SELF to be righteous! If we choose the largest steak we are just fulfilling that which we wanted to do but did not because of other motives! Either way it is sin! We need an outside power to help us! We need a gift to help us see our sin and to turn from it. This gift must put true and pure motives in us, by creative power, and not by the work or effort of man in his own strength! So it boils down to our motives! What is the motive of man? Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. KJV The Bible says the Word of God (through the Holy Spirit) is the final authority! The supreme example of the Word of God is the LIFE OF JESUS CHRIST! He is the Word of God! He is ETERNAL TRUTH! His life is the outliving of the principles of the Ten Commandment MORAL LAW OF GOD! All of God’s truth is for the exposition of the SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLES OF THE LAW OF GOD! Psalms 119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad. KJV NOTE: The end of all moral perfection is the LAW OF GOD! The Ten Commandments are not just “thou shalt not” “thou shalt do this etc…” They are spiritual principles of perfect behavior for man in the earth! Man is in the flesh (Rom 7:18)! The flesh has no good thing in it (Rom 7:18)! So how can man in the flesh obey God? He cannot! It is impossible! It can never happen, ever! We must be in the Spirit (Rom 8:14, Gal 5:18)! If we are in the Spirit we will follow the Spirit! If we follow the Spirit we will yield our will to the leading and prompting of the Holy Spirit, and our submission is the will of God, according to his will and MOTIVES (Rom 6:13-18)! The motive of God then is credited to our account, since we cannot have true or pure motives outside a supernatural gift of God that is accepted by our yielding to our consciences to that which is presented to us in our inmost soul (mind and heart) by the power of the Holy Spirit! When we choose to obey Him we are forming a character! Our character is our thoughts + feeling = action or character or habits! If our habits are holy, it is because we are so used to submitting to the leading of the Holy Spirit, that His will has been replaced as our own, and it is what we do in our response to a given situation! That is called sanctification of the Spirit! It takes a life time to form these habits! Submission to the Holy Spirit that is habitual is a Christ-like life! That life reflects the principles of the Law of God just as Jesus Christ did! Therefore, we can look at this process from many angles! First Jesus Christ had to take a body the same as ours (fallen man), degenerated after 4,000 years of sin on the gene pool of man! Now it is 6,000 years of degeneration! Anyway, He then had to perfectly submit His whole life to the sanctifying influence of the Holy Spirit as the Spirit spake to His conscience! And as a consequence Jesus Christ had a life without sin, perfect character habits, and He did it with our fallen nature inherited from Adam! Jesus lived out the divine nature in the flesh that was contaminated with the sinful nature! This was done through the 100% reliance on the leading and guiding of the Holy Spirit! He yielded His every thought and desire to God’s will, and formed perfect character patterns in the flesh, by the Holy Spirit’s leading and guiding! His was a life of perfect submission! We can have that life! If we submit our mind and heart to the leading and prompting of the Holy Spirit we can live a victorious life over sin in the flesh, just as Jesus Christ did! Thank God for the Gift of the Holy Spirit to regenerate sinful, fallen, erring, carnal, fleshly, wicked man into a spiritual being, that follows spiritual principles! Sin is a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4)! Sin is breaking the MORAL requirements of God! Mankind is in sin! The Law is Spiritual (Rom 7:14)! Man needs the Holy Spirit to help him “SEE” and “HEAR” the eternal principles of the Law of God! Man cannot understand or comprehend the ETERNAL PRINCIPLES of the Law of God as they are spiritual and man is not! He is lost to the absolute control of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit! The gospel plan for man is to restore the will of man back into the Holy Spirit’s dominion (Matthew 12:28), also called the Kingdom of God! The king is Jesus, and His dominion is righteousness! The righteous dominion of Jesus Christ is restored in us (Luke 17:21) by our yielding to the power and influence of the Holy Spirit! This is how the kingdom grows in us! The more we pray and fast and seek the will of God for our life, the more our consciences will be awakened to the spiritual nature of the Law of God as impressed on our consciences by the Holy Spirit (Rom 9:1). When we have living consciences that are no longer dead, and seared (1 Tim 4:2), then we are alive unto righteousness through Jesus Christ! However, all righteousness is the life of Jesus Christ! The life of Jesus Christ is the principles of the Ten Commandments lived out in the flesh, by the power of the Holy Spirit! If Jesus came in the nature of Adam before the fall, then all He could do is prove that the law could be kept in the perfect sinless nature of primitive creation! That is good! However, it does nothing in the field of justification for man! Man is fallen and the Holy Spirit is not naturally in man as it was in Adam before the fall. Sin separates (Is 59:2)! Sin grieved away the Holy Spirit from Adam and Adam was doomed to the eternal death penalty (the state of being before creation…nothingness)! But Jesus Christ stepped in and gave the promise of Gen 3:15, and man now had a probation and a small measure of the Holy Spirit, to allow him to choose whether or not he will yield to the power and influence of the Holy Spirit, so that He can form holy character patterns and be given the gift of eternal life (Rom 2:6-7)! The fact that Jesus Christ came “IN THE FLESH” (Rom 8:1-4; 1Tim 3:16) and was of the seed of Abraham (Gal 3:16; Heb 2:16), proves that he came in the fallen nature of man, post-fall! This means that since He was able to live a life without sin in the flesh, and then he died for us! His death was unjust, as He did not sin, He did not deserve to die, for He was sinless! But since He died without committing sin, He was able to conquer the grave (death)! Since He beat the grave (death) and did not sin, then the death He died was unfair, and He can use that as a means to take away our death penalty! He now had merit because of His death, and He could use that merit to expunge our death penalty (not the first death, which is as a sleep, but the second death…eternal nothingness)! His surplus or merit which was His death that He did not deserve! Is now used to take away the second death from us if we live the life He lived, and form character patterns as He did, by receiving the Holy Spirit as He did and submit to the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, as He did! Thank you Jesus Christ for dying a death that you did not deserve, so we can live a life we do not deserve! Thank you for living a life as an example of what can be done through the EVERLASTING GOSPEL of Jesus Christ (Rev 14:6) in us! Our death penalty is gone, and our life of slavery to the spirit of Satan is gone, and now we can have freedom in the Holy Spirit to obey the “Royal Law of Liberty” (James 2:8-12), called the Ten Commandments! We are free to obey righteousness, thanks to the indwelling gift and power of the Holy Spirit that is allowed to be re-united with man, as the separation of sin is no more because of the death of Christ (Is 59:2; Ps 66:18; Eph 2:15,16)! However, man is still somewhat confused to the nature of God’s law! Man has not yet figured out that Satan is behind the slander of the Law of God! The Law of God (moral) is good (Rom 7:12)! The Law of God (moral) is spiritual (Rom 7:14)! The Law of God is the standard of eternal life (Matt 19:17-19)! The Law of God can be lived out in the FLESH (Rom 8:1-4)! The Law of God cannot be changed (Matt 5:17-19)! The Law of God is what shows the world what sin is (1 John 3:4)! The Holy Spirit points out sin (John 16:8)! The Holy Spirit therefore shows the spiritual aspects of the law to man, since the Holy Spirit was sent in Jesus’ name (John 15:26)! If the Law could be changed, then Jesus Christ would not have needed to die for our sin (Law Breaking)! And His death would have been unnecessary! However, since He did die for us, it is eternal proof of the unchanging nature of the Law of God! The law remains! But sin can be overcome and done away with through our submission to the Holy Spirit, and our lives forming right character patterns that yield to the spiritual principles of the Law as a light that shines in our mind, when the Holy Spirit impresses us to do or not to do something! When we obey we are following the Holy Spirit as He brings the REQUIREMENTS of the Law to our mind and heart (the shining light of law)! This is the New Covenant experience, that Jesus Christ promised we could have in the Garden of Eden (Gen 3:15) when He gave us the New Covenant promise! Look at the New Covenant, and see how the Law of God is the standard, and how it is spiritual, and how it is to be written in our mind and heart, which is speaking of character! Hebrews 10:16-19 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, KJV PLEASE NOTE: In verse 16, the LORD says “HE WILL” write the law of God in our mind and heart! That is what the Holy Spirit does for us! Thank God for the gift of Holy Spirit, this is His grace! The gift of grace is the working power of the Holy Spirit in our mind and heart to get us to conform to the righteous standard of eternal life called the Ten Comamndments which are the spiritual principles of eternal life, Jesus Christ, and the government of God! The Law is how we are governed, and the law is love! Therefore when we submit to the Holy Spirit to work out these principles of love in our life, we are accepting the moral government of God, which is the KINGDOM OF GOD IN US! PLEASE NOTE: In verse 17 of Hebrews chapter 10, look at what happens when the law of God is written in our mind and heart, the NEXT STEP is our sins and iniquities are remembered NO MORE! Why does God forget our sins and iniquities? First we accpet Jesus and our sin are forgiven! Second, is that we receive the Holy Spirit and the Law is written in us, and if Law is in us, then sin is not! Sins are forgotten because we are not doing them anymore! We have the creative power of God called grace, as given to us by the Holy Spirit (Titus 2:11-13; Eph 2:8; Rom 8:14) and we follow the Holy Spirit and now have HOLY CHARACTER PATTERNS that do not commit sin! THerefore our sins are forgotton, because we have stopped sinning, and God can forget about the past because we are not living in sin in the present!!! If you stop sinning you do not need more offerings for sin! The blood was sufficient for the past and grace is sufficient for the present and future! The Law of God should not be viewed as do’s and do not’s! The Law is the principle of covenant relationship with God! When we accept the New Covenant we are accepting a relationship with the Godhead, based on the character principles of the Law of God! We also confess that we know and can do nothing (John 15:5) without the divine helper that brings us grace to help in our time of need (always) to show us what our moral duty is, and then when we yield to that knowledge He will fulfill that in our life by HIS POWER! He reveals it to us (Faith) and then fulfills it in us (Grace)! This is Biblical salvation! It is the only gospel of the Bible! The Law includes the Sabbath! That cannot be changed at all! It cannot be spiritualized away, or the day changed! Or else it becomes a false gospel, for which Jesus Christ made no provision for or covenant for us! The Law is unchangeable and the covenant He made with man is for us to obey and receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:32). If we could change the law, then there would be no sin! If there was no sin, then we do not need a saviour! If we do not need a Saviour, then why do you need Jesus Christ? Because the Law points out sin, and sin must be overcome just as Christ overcame (Rev 3:21), by submission to the Holy Spirit! The Sabbath is the 7th day! That day is Saturday! What is the big deal? If God said to keep it holy, then just do it! It is the heart of the moral law! It contains the NAME, TITLE, AND TERRITORY of the Creator! His name is LORD! His title is creator! His territory is heaven and earth! The Sabbath is the seal of God’s authority that He is the CREATOR, and that we are amenable to HIM! Those that try to pawn off Sunday are following a different god, with a different MARK or SEAL! Jesus Christ is the LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27,28)! Therefore, He was and is stating that He created the heaven and the earth (Gen 2:1-3; John 1:1-3; Col 1:16; Heb 1:1-3)! Jesus Christ is Jehovah the ALMIGHTY GOD! His law cannot change for you or me! We must obey no matter what the silly traditions of man teach! Man is deceived (Matt 24:4,Luke 4:4)! Look at what happens when man follows man and silly traditions such as Sunday worship! Matthew 15:3 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? KJV
Matthew 15:8-9 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. KJV Mankind is deceived to the fact that the beast of Revelation is the Roman Catholic Church! The Roman Church got its power from Satan (Rev 13:2-3), and has changed the law (Dan 7:25, Is 24:5), and all the world follows this sinful hatred against the Ten Commandments! The LORD of Sunday worship is the POPE and his LORD is Satan! The Papal church claims that Sunday is the MARK of their authority, as they are the one that changed the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day! In the end of time we must choose if we are to follow “SUN-WORSHIP” which is sinfully breaking the Law of Jesus Christ, or if we are to submit to the authority of the Bible and follow the Word of God and keep the Sabbath as given by our CREATOR JESUS CHRIST? Choose you this day whom you will obey! If it be Baal the “sun god” or Jesus Christ the Son of God? Saturday the 7th day (Jesus Christ) or Sunday the 1st day (the Pope and his father Satan)! Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. KJV
Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. KJV Matthew Peters
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Post by pete777 on Apr 3, 2009 5:58:31 GMT -5
Here is the 4th Commandment of the Creator God, known as Jesus Christ of the BIBLE! Exodus 20:8-11 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. KJV THE NAME, TITLE, and AUTHORITY of GOD ALMIGHTY! LORD = Name MADE = Creator/Title Heaven and Earth = Territory of His power and reign! The Sabbath of the moral Law is the seal of God! It is the seal that He created the earth and has a right to give the creation (man) rules to live by. The law is the principles of covenant relationship with HIM! John 14:15 If we love HIM we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to obey Him! If we love HIM we will not have other god before Him (even the god of our own wisdom and opinions). If we love HIM we will not make graven images (false doctrines) or take HIS name in vain (say we are Christians but continue to live in sin)! If we LOVE HIM we will meet HIM on the day He told us to MEET HIM ON!!! THat day is clearly spelled out byb HIM, and since He is the CREATOR He knows best! The 7th day is Saturday! If we love HIM we will take care of our parents (we will not dupm them off in a nursing home)! If we LOVE HIM we will not KILL (even our own bodies through eating and drinking unhealthful foods) If we LOVE HIM we will not lust after other women (rather we will receive the power of the Holy SPirit to subdue those carnal tendencies)! If we LOVE HIM we will not lie, steal, covet etc... If you LOVE HIM you will open your heart to the work of the Holy Spirit and allow Him to work in you! It is HIS work to redeem you! It is His work to save you from sin (Matthew 1:21)! The WORKS we are saved by are two fold: PART ONE!! 1) The 31 years of perfect righteousness of the life and death of Jesus Christ that ended on the cross of Calvary. PART TWO! 2) The WORK of the Holy Spirit, as a gift from the Father, due to the merit of His Son Jesus Christ, sent in His NAME, to work in us to form perfect character habits! Which reflect the LAw of God as given by God and not changed by man! Including the 4th!!! Salvation by works of man to obey the law is foolishness! The Pharisee's tried it and failed! They thought that they could obey the spiritual principles of the Law in the flesh and be saved! The flesh can not be justified by it own efforts (Rom 3:20)! The Law does not save anyone! It is the standard (Rom 3:31)! So how are we justified and saved? We have to keep the law (Rev 14:12; Rom 2:13; James 2:20-26)! So how are we saved? To answer this question, ask yourself this question? Who does the works? Man or God? If you said man, then you cannot be justified, because the Holy Spirit will not help you unless you realize your need! If you said that you can do nothing, but recoginize that the law must be obeyed, then you will look for someone to help you obey the eternal principles of righteousness! You will look for an outside power to help you overcome! THis is the correct answer! The works of the law cannot be done by the flesh (self help) it must be done by the Spirit (gospel power)! The word works in the Bible has a stigma or fear attached to it! But why? Are you aware that the BIble speaks of two different works? 1) The worthless works of man to obey the LAW! 2) The wonderful works of the Holy SPirit in us, to help us obey the LAW! So how is man saved from sinful character habits? By his own effort or by the creative power of the Holy SPirit called the GRACE of God? James 2:20-22 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? NOTE: The works mentioned is not MAN's works!!!! It is the work of the Spirit!!! 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? NOTE: Abrtaham was justified because he followed the Holy Spirit's leading, despite what he wanted to do (which was save his son)! The Holy Spirit is given to them that obey their consciences (Acts 5:32), this was the works of Abraham, the Father of faith! 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? KJV NOTE: The works are submission to the power of the Holy Spirit called GRACE, and by that we have the works of righteousness! The work is of God and not man! WHO DOES THE WORKS IN US? ? Isaiah 26:12 12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us. KJV IF you answered God then you are correct!!! But how does He do the works in us??? Ephesians 3:20
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, KJV Do you have the power WORKING in you so that your faith has the works of salvation, which is the Holy Spirit writing the law in your mind and heart? Hebrews 10:15-17
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. KJV Matthew Peters
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 5, 2009 16:26:05 GMT -5
If we love HIM we will not make graven images (false doctrines) or take HIS name in vain (say we are Christians but continue to live in sin)! False doctrines like the ones that Ellen G. White taught. If we LOVE HIM we will meet HIM on the day He told us to MEET HIM ON!!! THat day is clearly spelled out byb HIM, and since He is the CREATOR He knows best! The 7th day is Saturday! “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day, and continued his speech until midnight.” Acts 20:7 “Upon the first day of the week let everyone of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him that there be no gatherings when I come.” 1 Corinthians 16:2 Now you Adventist better remember to obey God on the first day of the week. The Adventist church is not the Church of Christ for many reasons; 1. The Adventist’s had a modern day woman prophet (Ellen G. White). 2. The Adventist’s are not united in their doctrines. 3. The Adventist’s live by the old law which was given to the Children of Israel (Deuteronomy 5:1-3) 4. The Adventist’s use Mechanical Musical Instruments in worship services. 5. The list can go on…
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Post by faithbypower on Apr 5, 2009 17:55:25 GMT -5
Now you Adventist better remember to obey God on the first day of the week. -----------
I Thought advent was the belief in the Second return of the Lord, so an adventist is a person which believes in Christ soon return.
Funny you use the Word remember, which if I follow this in the Bible, Remember is the first word in the 4th commandment, Remember the Sabbath day the 7th day. Not remember the first day of the week in which Paul stated Do not Gather when I come in 1 cor 16
Upon the *first day* of the week let everyone of you *lay by him in store*, as God hath prospered him that there be **no gatherings** --> when I come.” 1 Corinthians 16:2
They are to “lay something aside” or “lay by him in store”. The original Greek is translated: “Let each one of you put on one side and store **up at home**” or “saving it up” Notice this instruction is for individuals to put this gift aside at their HOME and not a collective offering at Church.
So Please we need to Obey the Bible not the traditions of men and thier ideas which do not simple read the Bible for what is clearly stated and miss quote it.
Does Acts describe a church worship service on Sunday morning? Acts 20:7-11
“now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until Mid night.
There were *many lights* --> in the upper room where they were gathered together. And in a window sat a certain young man named eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep.
He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.
But Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing him said, “do not trouble yourselves, for his life is in him. Now when he had come up, had broken bread and eaten, and talked a long while, even till Dawn, he departed.
Finally, we’ve found a meeting on the first day of the week. And it is a religious meeting. But does it say the Sabbath was changed or that the disciples always kept Sunday? NO!
A.) The disciples preached and broke bread “daily” every day of the week – [Acts 2:46]
B.) Braking bread, doesn’t make this a communion at a church service. This phrase often describes eating a meal as in “breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food” Even if it were a communion service, the Bible doesn’t say communion was held only on Sundays. [Acts 27:33-35]
C.) This meeting took place in the evening of the first day. How did God create a Day, Evening and Morning where the first day. Darkness was first, then day. This took place Saturday Night and in the Dawn Paul departed. If Sunday was the Day of Worship, why did Paul Leave, should not he preach or attend Church services on God’s Holy Day, Friend No! Sunday is a work day, Paul worked!
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 5, 2009 18:15:00 GMT -5
Mr Whitehead,
You seem so angry at Adventists! Why is that?
Tidings
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 5, 2009 18:18:28 GMT -5
I read the post of Matthew Peters and it was doctrinally sound! What argument from the Bible can be used to refute him? It is very clear and Biblical! Attack the doctrine from the Bible if you can? But the denomination does not matter! It is the doctrinal truths that are to be discussed!
The Bible and the Bible alone! Sola Scripture! As Martin Luther once said!
Tidings
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 5, 2009 21:21:15 GMT -5
I read the post of Matthew Peters and it was doctrinally sound! What argument from the Bible can be used to refute him? It is very clear and Biblical! Attack the doctrine from the Bible if you can? But the denomination does not matter! It is the doctrinal truths that are to be discussed! The Bible and the Bible alone! Sola Scripture! As Martin Luther once said! Tidings Did you know Martin Luther called the book of James the book of straw and it should be burned... Just something to think about. I refuted sabbath keeping.
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 5, 2009 22:04:50 GMT -5
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. KJV
Deuteronomy 4:2-3 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baal-peor: for all the men that followed Baal-peor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you. KJV
James 2:10-12 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. KJV
Repent, for doubt is the work of the DEVIL!
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? KJV
Tidings!
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Post by faithbypower on Apr 5, 2009 22:27:15 GMT -5
I refuted sabbath keeping. -------------
Where?
1 Cor 16 states NO Gatherings on the First Day,
Acts 20 states the meeting was Saturday night after Sabbath, where Paul walked the next day (sunday) to another city? Why was he not in a church?
Plus, where does the Bible states Remember the First Day to keep it Holy? By what authority given to man can he change the Moral Law's of God? Maybe an open theist prayed to God that he would change the Law, and God does not know it yet, for it is yet future!
Jesus stated He is Lord of the Sabbath, Mk 2:28
Did you refute His Statement, when did Jesus stop being the Lord of the Sabbath?
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 6, 2009 11:12:50 GMT -5
How To Use The Old Testament “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect thoroughly furnished unto all good works.: 2 Timothy 3:16:17 How then are we to use our Old Testaments? We can learn… 1. Evidence: That Jesus Christ is the Son of God through the prophecies given concerning him. We can know that the Bible is the inspired word of God by examining the fulfillment of prophecies. 2. Hope: A source of Hope; “For whatever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” Romans 15:4 3. Shadow: The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed (The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed). Hebrews 8:4,5 4. Example: We can examine the judgment of God according to faithfulness. The purpose of the Old Testament (the law). 1. Preparation of the way of Christ. (Galatians 3:23-25) 2. It was intend for Israel only (Deuteronomy 5:1-3; 6:6-7). 3. Christ abolished it by his death on the cross (Colossians 2:14). The Authority of Christ The word “Authority” denotes “The power of one whose will and commands must be obeyed by others” (Vines. 1:89). Therefore, whosoever possesses authority holds the right to command and the ability to enforce commands. In these last days God has spoken to us through His son (Hebrews 1:2) and not through Moses. Let’s examine a passage. Matthew 17:1-5; And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John, his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain privately, And was transfigured before them; and his face did shine like the sun, and his raiment was as white as the light. And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here; if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah. While he yet spoke, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and, behold, a voice out of the cloud which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.” When the transfiguration occurred Peter respected Moses and Elijah as having authority equal to Jesus in deed. This is indicated by his statement; “if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” However, while he yet spoke these things the Father of heaven deemed Christ Jesus as the one having authority, instructing us to hear him and not Moses and Elijah. During Jesus’ ministry those who heard him teach were amazed “For he taught them as one having authority and not as the scribes” (Matthew 7:29). Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said to those of old… But I say unto you…” (Matthew 5:21). In the Great Commission Jesus said, “All authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18). Paul wrote in Ephesians 1:20-23; “For above all principality and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come; And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.” It is evident that in all things Christ is preeminent, is the head of the body, and possesses all Authority in heaven and in earth. (Colossians 1:18; Matthew 28:18). Establishing Biblical Authority There are two particular types of Authority: 1. Inherent Authority – Authority that has been established through ownership. I.e. A father has the authority to command his children to wash their hands. 2. Delegated Authority – Authority that has been given to an individual by an owner. I.e. A father has given authority to one child in order to relay a message sent by the father commanding the other children to wash his hands. There are two sources of Authority: 1. God 2. Man Jesus gave two possible sources of authority in Luke 20:1-8. “It came to pass that, on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders, and spoke to him saying ‘by what authority doest thou these things? Or who is he that gave thee this authority?’ He answered and said unto them, ‘I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: The Baptism of John was it from heave or men?’” To act with authority no higher than men is to worship God in vain. “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” The Old Covenant The Old Law was given to the Children of Israel and no one else. “And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statues and ordinance which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.” (Deuteronomy 5:1-3) No Sabbath keeping is found in the Old Testament until Exodus 16:23-26. Nor can we find the New Testament Christians establishing the Seventh Day Sabbath as law. “Wherefore, then, serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law, then, against the promises of God? God forbid; for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. By the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith, which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore, the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith is come we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” One thing to notice is that the law was added. During the Patriarchal Age God revealed His will through the fathers. What people knew of God under this time period was handed down by tradition from their fathers (1 Peter 1:18). Later the Law was added due to transgressions. This is referred to as the Mosaic age, which should last till (indicating a time frame) the seed should come (Christ Jesus). Also Jesus spoke of the abolishment of the old law in Matthew 5:17,18 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” The law and the prophets have passed away because Christ has fulfilled them. “Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” Hebrews 10:9 The New Covenant The New Covenant is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2 1 Corinthians 9:21). Within this New Covenant we are to walk by faith and the law is not of faith (Galatians 3:12). In order for us to live and walk by faith we must know how to do so. Romans 10:17 tell us that; “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” The Christian walks by faith, insinuating that all he does in word or deed is done in the name of the Lord Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:7; Colossians 3:16,17) In order for us to establish the New Testament worship services we must “hear him” (Jesus; Matthew 17:5) who is the head of the body, the church (Colossians 1:18) which has given authority to the Apostles to speak on his behalf. Knowing this, that if we walk by faith, we walk by the decrees, which were given by the Apostles to all the churches (Acts 16:4) “And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees to keep, that were ordained of the Apostles and Elders who were at Jerusalem. And so were the churches established in the faith and increased in number daily.” Acts 16:4 “And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.” Acts 2:42 That which has been ordained for New Testament Christians to observe has been delivered to the whole world (Colossians 1:23) in the book of Acts and the Epistles through explicit, implicit, and expedient commands. To add to, or take away from those commands is deserving of death. Conclusion In order for one to establish Biblical authority for Sabbath keeping (the New Testament worship being ordained on Saturday) he/she must demonstrate from the New Testament scriptures where men were commanded to keep the Sabbath after the New Covenant came into affect on the day of Pentecost. Establishing this authority may be done explicitly, implicitly, or expediently. Also, it is the obligation of the one who upholds the affirmative to do so. In this article I have briefly addressed the distinction made between the Law of Christ and the Old Testament Law. 1 Corinthians 16:1,2 It is a hermeneutical law to realize that a text without a context is a pretext. I suggest you take this advice seeing as the first verse of 1 Corinthians 16 says “Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatian even so do ye. · This is a command for the Church. To say that we are to lay aside money at our homes is in direct contradiction of verse 2. We are told that the reason for the individual to lay aside while being assembled with the church (the plurality of the individual Christians) on the first day of the week is so that Christ will find no men gathering and storing riches on earth when he returns but instead the Church will be enabling Saints to further the work of Christ assuring us that there will be no gatherings when he returns. It was also stated Acts 20 states the meeting was Saturday night after Sabbath, where Paul walked the next day (sunday) to another city? Why was he not in a church? I’d like to refute this by simply quoting the verse; “And upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day and continued his speech until midnight.” Paul preached from day until night on Sunday. “When the disciples came together” indicates a common occurrence. Paul departed on Monday, “the next day”. The Law of Liberty One again, a text without a context is a pretext. If anyone “offends in one point” of the Royal law (verse 8), “he is guilty of all” (Verse 10) that would include the Ten Commandments. In Comparison, we are to keep all of Christ’s commandments (The Law of Liberty). The scriptures refer to the old law as the law of slavery, not liberty. Also, Christ has not set us free with the Ten Commandments in order for us to be a slave to them. We are now slaves to Christ and we hear him (Matthew 17:5; Ephesians 6:6). “Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Galatians 5:1 The Law of Liberty will judge us, which is not the Royal Law. Jesus said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” John 12:48 Christ never said keep the Sabbath.
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 6, 2009 22:36:52 GMT -5
Johnathan,
So what you are saying is you can live in sin!
You can keep playing your silly video games!
You can drink your alcohol and party!
You can do whatever you want and be saved!
Where did you get your "deeeeeep" theological concepts?
Johnathan you are a young kid, you are 23 yrs old and God is calling you to obey Him and the Holy Spirit is convicting you of your sin! But you do not want to submit! You want to play Christian and party and do what you want! You are in rebellion against God and His Law, which is so clearly proclaimed throughtout the NEW TESTAMENT, even more so than the OLD! You are a sinner and you need to repent and accept Jesus Christ!
Tidings!
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 6, 2009 22:47:00 GMT -5
Johnathan, In order to see the truth, you must understand a few bed-rock principles of the Word of God, and that will help you greatly!
Did God create man perfect? Yes or No?
If God created man perfect (and He did), then where did sin come from? It was a choice! Therefore, it was "free will." Man has a will the is not governed by force or brutality. God is a loving God and He wants us to obey Him out of love not FORCE!
The only way God could have His creation love Him is by giving mankind a "free will" to choose to love Him. Man was to see the goodness of God and be drawn to that wonderful, all knowing, blessed, character as manifested in Him and His nature.
Adam was created perfect, he was "good" and was not some defect on the factory assembly line. Adam and Eve were PERFECT! They chose to disobey God! They made an intelligent decision (although a bad one), their minds were not cloudy, they were capable of deciding for the right or wrong. And they knew right from wrong (law). They yielded their will to sin! They had "good" characters, they had "good" natures! They had no burning "lusts" in their flesh to influence them to commit that sin!
They were "free" in the blessed acceptance and closeness with God! They made a decision to believe the lie of Satan (serpent/tempter).
When they did this their natures changed from "divine" into "sinful," but their will was to remain "free" because of the gift of enmity (Gen 3:15). Their act of sin would have been immediately punished with death, forever! But Jesus Christ stepped in and gave the promise of His future death for all mankind (Gen 3:15) and they were to live off of that promise BY FAITH, looking forward to what Jesus would do (the cross of Calvary) one day! They were saved BY FAITH, looking to the future! And that faith was what accessed grace (power) to continue to help them yield their now fallen sinful flesh, to a holy and sanctified will! A will that though temptation is all around them, they by faith receiving God's power can yield to that which they know is right.
Look carefully at the next verse! This is a principle that can not be overlooked! It shows that if you obey Satan you will be his slave (bondage of the will), but because Jesus is still our high priest in heaven ministering His sacrifice, we can still receive benefit from His New Covenant promise. This promise was given immediately, when man sinned in the Garden of Eden (Gen 3:15) that was fulfilled on the cross of Calvary, by the death of Jesus Christ! The promise is a release of the “will” so that it can remain “free” in order for their to be another chance to accept salvation (salvation is learning to choose right doing, even with a sinful nature).
When we sin we deserve immediate death! But because of God’s MERCY, we are on probation, a period of time to see the results of sin, and to learn to choose the good, (Isaiah 7:15-16). So look at this principle in 2 Pet 2:19.
2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. KJV
It clearly shows that if you yield your “will” to Satan, you will be his slave (your will bound to his will), and he can kill you or do what ever! But since Jesus Christ has given man the promise of Gen 3:15, and carried it out on the CROSS, we are given more chances. This is God’s patience and longsuffering, being manifested on behalf of man! One day the chances will end! Probation will cease! In fact these are the words that Jesus Christ will utter:
Rev 22:11-12 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. KJV
As can be seen from the text, just prior to the second coming, Jesus will close probation for man, and then He will return. We do not know the date or hour of His return, but we know that the 7 last plagues are a judgment on guilty man. The plagues are the retributive judgment on Christians that did not CHOOSE to stop yielding their will to Satan. The partakers in the false gospel “Babylon,” the spiritually confused, CHOSE to neglect the offers of mercy, which provided them time to LEARN how to yield their will to righteousness (Ten Commandments the MORAL standard of eternal life, Matthew 19:17).
The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God for salvation (Rom 1:16), it is a restoration of man’s power to choose the good and refuse the evil (sin, law breaking). If man buys into a gospel that allows him to live in sin, then he is deceived, and will not participate in the probationary period provided for him to learn to do righteousness, by yielding the will unto God! He or she will be lost in the end because of continual sin in the life. And Jesus will say to that person:
Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. KJV
Did you notice the last verse? “… YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.” They did not learn to yield the will to that which they know is right (James 4:17). They come to Jesus because they called themselves Christians, and knew the Bible, and were sharing it with others, but in the end they had some sins that the Spirit of the Lord made known to their conscience, but they justified themselves, with the excuses that the “FALSE GOSPEL” provides.
The excuses of the false gospel:
1) We are slaves to our nature!
2) We can not obey God, with our sinful natures!
3) Just believe and you will be saved! (big lie!)
4) Jesus did it all at the cross! (bigger lie!)
5) The law is done away with!
6) There is no MORAL standard!
7) My nature is sinful, I am forced to live in sin and just believe!
8) Obedience is legalism!
9) If you keep the commandments you are a Pharisee! (Rev 14:12, Rev 12:17, Rev 22:14)
10) I was predestined to be saved, its automatic, I just have to believe! I was chosen therefore I do not have to worry about the details!
THERE ARE MORE SATANIC BLASPHEMIES THAN THESE! These are just scratching the surface of SATAN’s WEB of lies and falsehoods! This is the Babylonian gospel, which makes men drunk on the wine of FALSE DOCTRINES!
Rev 18:2-4
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. KJV
The people that believe in anyone of these excuses are confused about the truth! They are intoxicated with false doctrine, the wine of Satan’s teachings, that lead to sin and a rejection of the true gospel! Victory in Jesus, is freedom from all known sin in the flesh, by receiving the Holy Spirit to be retrained on how to yield the will to God! That’s what Galatians 3:23-25 is talking about, retraining the will to choose the obedience of moral law! Until we learn to choose correctly (no more love of sin) we are under the condemnation of the law, but when the “light bulb” goes on and we figure out what God is leading us to, we start yielding the will to our consciences, and thus are following the Ten Commandments, and are led by the Spirit (Rom 8:14).
The flesh will be dead, it will not be so powerful that we choose to do the evil act, our “OLD MAN” will be put to death, and we yield loving obedience to Christ and the Holy Spirit. This is where prayer come in! We need to pray and occasionally fast, in order for God to remove the fiery passions that SEEM to overwhelm us. Then when the passions are subdued, it is so easy to render loving obedience to MORAL law as impressed on our consciences by the Holy Spirit. Then we will not be in sin, and iniquity, and can be saved (from sin Matt 1:21) from our sins!
Johnathan, you need to humble yourself, and listen to what you are told. We are telling you the clear, simple truth! We are watching for your soul, we understand the core teaching of the gospel. We may not agree on every detail but if we continue in the Word, we will be led into ALL truth (John 16:13), and then the details will reflect each other in our understanding. Take the things and pray about it and study it out! Open your mind, and humble your heart! You can yield your will in perfect obedience to MORAL law! You must, our pay for it on judgment day! Jesus Christ loves you! He wants you to LEARN! He wants you to go to HIM and pray about things, so you can have a SOFT heart when you come to the WORD! He wants to give you grace!
He wants you to yield to HIM in absolute perfect obedience! He wants to take away ALL of your sins! He died for you! He paid the penalty for YOU! He is waiting on your PRAYER! He want you to not let PRIDE rise up in your heart, thinking you know something, but are still drinking milk. Jesus wants to give you the MEAT of the WORD of God! He wants you to be a witness of the true gospel! He wants to use you to call sinners to repentance! He wants to speak to you, with you, and through you! But you must weep before Him and confess your pride and arrogance! You must be perfectly humble in order to grow in the WORD and DOCTRINE! I have been where you are at! I had to weep and pray and fast and cry out for God to soften my hard heart! It was then that I got victory, after victory in my life! It was then that Jesus taught me truth! It was then that He empowered me to preach the Word of God with HIS power and wisdom! And He wants to do the same with you right now! Will you not fall on your knees and confess your sins, and have your ears free to hear His sweet voice talking to you and guiding you???
Psalm 25:8-9 8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. KJV
Tidings
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 7, 2009 6:07:12 GMT -5
Johnathan, In order to see the truth, you must understand a few bed-rock principles of the Word of God, and that will help you greatly! Did God create man perfect? Yes or No? If God created man perfect (and He did), then where did sin come from? It was a choice! Therefore, it was "free will." Man has a will the is not governed by force or brutality. God is a loving God and He wants us to obey Him out of love not FORCE! The only way God could have His creation love Him is by giving mankind a "free will" to choose to love Him. Man was to see the goodness of God and be drawn to that wonderful, all knowing, blessed, character as manifested in Him and His nature. Adam was created perfect, he was "good" and was not some defect on the factory assembly line. Adam and Eve were PERFECT! They chose to disobey God! They made an intelligent decision (although a bad one), their minds were not cloudy, they were capable of deciding for the right or wrong. And they knew right from wrong (law). They yielded their will to sin! They had "good" characters, they had "good" natures! They had no burning "lusts" in their flesh to influence them to commit that sin! They were "free" in the blessed acceptance and closeness with God! They made a decision to believe the lie of Satan (serpent/tempter). When they did this their natures changed from "divine" into "sinful," but their will was to remain "free" because of the gift of enmity (Gen 3:15). Their act of sin would have been immediately punished with death, forever! But Jesus Christ stepped in and gave the promise of His future death for all mankind (Gen 3:15) and they were to live off of that promise BY FAITH, looking forward to what Jesus would do (the cross of Calvary) one day! They were saved BY FAITH, looking to the future! And that faith was what accessed grace (power) to continue to help them yield their now fallen sinful flesh, to a holy and sanctified will! A will that though temptation is all around them, they by faith receiving God's power can yield to that which they know is right. Look carefully at the next verse! This is a principle that can not be overlooked! It shows that if you obey Satan you will be his slave (bondage of the will), but because Jesus is still our high priest in heaven ministering His sacrifice, we can still receive benefit from His New Covenant promise. This promise was given immediately, when man sinned in the Garden of Eden (Gen 3:15) that was fulfilled on the cross of Calvary, by the death of Jesus Christ! The promise is a release of the “will” so that it can remain “free” in order for their to be another chance to accept salvation (salvation is learning to choose right doing, even with a sinful nature). When we sin we deserve immediate death! But because of God’s MERCY, we are on probation, a period of time to see the results of sin, and to learn to choose the good, (Isaiah 7:15-16). So look at this principle in 2 Pet 2:19. 2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. KJV It clearly shows that if you yield your “will” to Satan, you will be his slave (your will bound to his will), and he can kill you or do what ever! But since Jesus Christ has given man the promise of Gen 3:15, and carried it out on the CROSS, we are given more chances. This is God’s patience and longsuffering, being manifested on behalf of man! One day the chances will end! Probation will cease! In fact these are the words that Jesus Christ will utter: Rev 22:11-12 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. KJV As can be seen from the text, just prior to the second coming, Jesus will close probation for man, and then He will return. We do not know the date or hour of His return, but we know that the 7 last plagues are a judgment on guilty man. The plagues are the retributive judgment on Christians that did not CHOOSE to stop yielding their will to Satan. The partakers in the false gospel “Babylon,” the spiritually confused, CHOSE to neglect the offers of mercy, which provided them time to LEARN how to yield their will to righteousness (Ten Commandments the MORAL standard of eternal life, Matthew 19:17). The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God for salvation (Rom 1:16), it is a restoration of man’s power to choose the good and refuse the evil (sin, law breaking). If man buys into a gospel that allows him to live in sin, then he is deceived, and will not participate in the probationary period provided for him to learn to do righteousness, by yielding the will unto God! He or she will be lost in the end because of continual sin in the life. And Jesus will say to that person: Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. KJV Did you notice the last verse? “… YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.” They did not learn to yield the will to that which they know is right (James 4:17). They come to Jesus because they called themselves Christians, and knew the Bible, and were sharing it with others, but in the end they had some sins that the Spirit of the Lord made known to their conscience, but they justified themselves, with the excuses that the “FALSE GOSPEL” provides. The excuses of the false gospel: 1) We are slaves to our nature! 2) We can not obey God, with our sinful natures! 3) Just believe and you will be saved! (big lie!) 4) Jesus did it all at the cross! (bigger lie!) 5) The law is done away with! 6) There is no MORAL standard! 7) My nature is sinful, I am forced to live in sin and just believe! 8) Obedience is legalism! 9) If you keep the commandments you are a Pharisee! (Rev 14:12, Rev 12:17, Rev 22:14) 10) I was predestined to be saved, its automatic, I just have to believe! I was chosen therefore I do not have to worry about the details! THERE ARE MORE SATANIC BLASPHEMIES THAN THESE! These are just scratching the surface of SATAN’s WEB of lies and falsehoods! This is the Babylonian gospel, which makes men drunk on the wine of FALSE DOCTRINES! Rev 18:2-4 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. KJV The people that believe in anyone of these excuses are confused about the truth! They are intoxicated with false doctrine, the wine of Satan’s teachings, that lead to sin and a rejection of the true gospel! Victory in Jesus, is freedom from all known sin in the flesh, by receiving the Holy Spirit to be retrained on how to yield the will to God! That’s what Galatians 3:23-25 is talking about, retraining the will to choose the obedience of moral law! Until we learn to choose correctly (no more love of sin) we are under the condemnation of the law, but when the “light bulb” goes on and we figure out what God is leading us to, we start yielding the will to our consciences, and thus are following the Ten Commandments, and are led by the Spirit (Rom 8:14). The flesh will be dead, it will not be so powerful that we choose to do the evil act, our “OLD MAN” will be put to death, and we yield loving obedience to Christ and the Holy Spirit. This is where prayer come in! We need to pray and occasionally fast, in order for God to remove the fiery passions that SEEM to overwhelm us. Then when the passions are subdued, it is so easy to render loving obedience to MORAL law as impressed on our consciences by the Holy Spirit. Then we will not be in sin, and iniquity, and can be saved (from sin Matt 1:21) from our sins! Johnathan, you need to humble yourself, and listen to what you are told. We are telling you the clear, simple truth! We are watching for your soul, we understand the core teaching of the gospel. We may not agree on every detail but if we continue in the Word, we will be led into ALL truth (John 16:13), and then the details will reflect each other in our understanding. Take the things and pray about it and study it out! Open your mind, and humble your heart! You can yield your will in perfect obedience to MORAL law! You must, our pay for it on judgment day! Jesus Christ loves you! He wants you to LEARN! He wants you to go to HIM and pray about things, so you can have a SOFT heart when you come to the WORD! He wants to give you grace! He wants you to yield to HIM in absolute perfect obedience! He wants to take away ALL of your sins! He died for you! He paid the penalty for YOU! He is waiting on your PRAYER! He want you to not let PRIDE rise up in your heart, thinking you know something, but are still drinking milk. Jesus wants to give you the MEAT of the WORD of God! He wants you to be a witness of the true gospel! He wants to use you to call sinners to repentance! He wants to speak to you, with you, and through you! But you must weep before Him and confess your pride and arrogance! You must be perfectly humble in order to grow in the WORD and DOCTRINE! I have been where you are at! I had to weep and pray and fast and cry out for God to soften my hard heart! It was then that I got victory, after victory in my life! It was then that Jesus taught me truth! It was then that He empowered me to preach the Word of God with HIS power and wisdom! And He wants to do the same with you right now! Will you not fall on your knees and confess your sins, and have your ears free to hear His sweet voice talking to you and guiding you??? Psalm 25:8-9 8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. 9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. KJV Tidings So, what I gathered from all of this is that you cannot establish biblical authority for the things you practice. Take care, Jonathan.
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 7, 2009 19:00:20 GMT -5
Johnathan,
You did not read the post! You are just trying to sound smart, like many young men. Humble yourself and develop a prayer life. Allow your mind to be connected to God by the power of the Holy Spirit.
What sin are you actively doing? What lust has ensnared your affections for Christ? Are you partying, are you doing self abuse? You are in sin! You know it! You are in rebellion! Please just humble yourself, confess your sin to Jesus Christ, tell Him you cannot get victory in your own strength. Then Jesus will help you out of your darkness!
If you really want to learn the Bible you must renounce your sin! Do not let Satan have you for a moment longer!
Your "mouth profession" of serving Jesus is foolishness! Nobody is saved by words! It is by receiving the Holy SPirit and in His power having VICTORY over the wicked filth in your life!
You can do it! Just ask Jesus to give you strength. Start praying and experience the power, and you religious life will go from words only to a living experience!
Love you brother! I will be praying for you!
GoodTidings
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 7, 2009 20:11:33 GMT -5
Johnathan, ... confess your sin to Jesus Christ... Then Jesus will help you out of your darkness! You can do it! Just ask Jesus to give you strength. Start praying... Nobody is saved by words! GoodTidings Does anyone else find this humerus?
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 11, 2009 0:34:10 GMT -5
Johnathan,
I am sorry you think it is funny! But your conscience tells you it is the truth!
Do you think we can break the Law of God and be saved?
Do you think the Ten Commandments are done away with?
Since the Law points out sin, do you believe man can live in sin and be saved?
Why did Jesus Christ tell us to keep the Ten Commandments and then even went so far as to name them?
Matthew 19:17-19
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. KJV
The Law of God in one law! If you mention any part of the law all the Commandments are uplifted and spoken of!
The Seventh Day Sabbath was never in debate as to whether or not it should be kept! Although the New Testament has a direct command to keep it by Jesus Christ and by Paul, people do not care and just want to follow their friends and family in religious things.
THe truth does not change! All Ten Commandments are binding today!
We need the grace of God to keep them! We cannot do it on our own strength! We need the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to be able to obey all the LAW!
Christ died to give us the gift of grace, so that we do not have to live in sin (satanic bondage) which is breaking the Ten Commandments. Grace empowers us to obey the Law!
Goodtidings
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 11, 2009 0:53:44 GMT -5
Johnathan,
You said that the New Covenant came into effect on the day of pentacost!
Where in the world did you get that strange notion?
That is neither Biblical or sustained by any theology doctrine I have ever heard of! That is a different gospel!
If you want the truth then read what the BIBLE HAS TO SAY!
When was the New Covenant ratified?
Galatians 3:14-15
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. KJV
NO MAN CAN CHANGE A COVENANT AFTER IT WAS CONFIRMED!
SO WHEN WAS THE NEW COVENANT CONFIRMED?
WHEN WAS EVERY SINGLE COVENANT IN THE BIBLE CONFIRMED?
Hebrews 9:15-20
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
NOTE: THE DEATH OF JESUS CONFIRMED THE NEW COVENANT!!!
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
NOTE: THE DEATH OF JESUS STARTED THE NEW TESTAMENT WHICH IS ALSO CALLED THE NEW COVENANT!
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
NOTE: THE NEW TESTAMENT BECAME IN FORCE AFTER THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS OF CALVARY. FOR ALL ETERNITY AND IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED AFTER THE CROSS!
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
NOTE: THE OLD TESTAMENT WAS RATIFIED WITH BLOOD AS WELL!!!!!!
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
NOTE: BLOOD OF CALVES AND OF GOATS STARTED THE OLD COVENANT!
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. KJV
NOTE: THE BLOOD OF JESUS STARTED THE NEW COVENANT/TESTAMENT, not pentacost!
PLEASE NOTE!!!! The blood of Jesus Christ sealed the New Testament, New Covenant! Nothing can be changed after the death of Jesus Christ!
The burden is not on Sabbath keepers to prove the Sababth after the cross, which there is overwhelming evidence.
The burden is for the "SUN WORSHIPPERS" to prove that Sunday worship was given by Christ before He sealed forever the New Testament/Covenant with His death on the Cross!
THis cannot be done! Jesus said before he died:
Mark 2:27-28
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. KJV
If He is your LORD of the New Covenant/ New Testament then obey Him and keep the Seventh Day Sabbath!
Goodtidings
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Post by debonnaire on Apr 11, 2009 4:30:00 GMT -5
Galatians 3:14-15 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. KJV Good tidings , good words about when the New Covenant started Question : Did Abraham observed the Sabbath ?
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 11, 2009 5:34:18 GMT -5
Abraham was a commandment keeper!
Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. KJV
Goodtidings
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 11, 2009 11:07:41 GMT -5
Do you think we can break the Law of God and be saved? Yes. He is faithful and just (1 John 1:9) Do you think the Ten Commandments are done away with? I know the Ten Commandments are done away with. (Review my post) Since the Law points out sin, do you believe man can live in sin and be saved? No. He that committeth sin is of the devil; (1 John 3:8) Why did Jesus Christ tell us to keep the Ten Commandments and then even went so far as to name them? Matthew 19:17-19 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. KJV Old Covenant. THe truth does not change! All Ten Commandments are binding today! Prove all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21) We need the grace of God to keep them! We cannot do it on our own strength! We need the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to be able to obey all the LAW! False. We need the Grace of God for forgiveness. We need the Holy Spirit to reveal, that which is sin (as he already has in the Bible.) You said that the New Covenant came into effect on the day of pentacost! Where in the world did you get that strange notion? The Bible. When was the New Covenant ratified? NOTE: THE DEATH OF JESUS STARTED THE NEW TESTAMENT WHICH IS ALSO CALLED THE NEW COVENANT! Wrong, the New Covenant did not come into affect before the resurrection of Jesus Christ. “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord: I will put my laws into their hearts and in their minds will I write them, and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.” Hebrews 10:16,17 From: “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which, my covenant, they broke, although I was a husband unto them saith the Lord; But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.” Jeremiah 31:31-33 The New Covenant will come “ After those days.” Question: What days are being spoken of? Answer: The days in which Christ would fulfill all of the law and the prophets. (This includes the resurrection that was prophesied.) Matthew 5:17-18 Sometime after those days the Lord will initiate His New Covenant. This occurred when the Lord “put His laws in their hearts and in their minds.” Note: This law is not the Ten Commandments. Indicating the future revelation of the law of Faith. This occurred on the day of Pentecost when the Father sent the Spirit of Truth and Comfort to guide the Apostles in all the things that he had commanded them. “But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” John 14:26 This was fulfilled in Acts 2. When the New Covenant came, Peter preached repentance and remission of Sins. "Repent ye and be baptized for the remission of your sins." The burden is not on Sabbath keepers to prove the Sababth after the cross Yes, it is. (1 Thessalonians 5:21) which there is overwhelming evidence Which has not been supplied. The burden is for the "SUN WORSHIPPERS" to prove that Sunday worship was given by Christ before He sealed forever the New Testament/Covenant with His death on the Cross! Loaded Statement - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_questionIf He is your LORD of the New Covenant/ New Testament then obey Him and keep the Seventh Day Sabbath “He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses; Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be though worth, who… hath done despite unto the Spirit of Grace?” Hebrews 10:28,29 You are not walking by faith. How much sorer shall your punishment be?
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Apr 11, 2009 11:10:27 GMT -5
Abraham was a commandment keeper! Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. KJV Goodtidings "The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with out fathers, but with us even us who are all of us here alive this day." Deuteronomy 5:2,3 Abraham lived under the patriarchal age not the Mosaic age.
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 11, 2009 22:15:15 GMT -5
THE ETERNAL LAW OF GOD! THE LAW IS A TRANSCRIPT OF HIS NATURE/CHARACTER, AND IS THE PRINCIPLES OF COVENANT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CREATOR, JESUS CHRIST! IT IS THE STANDARD OF ETERNAL LIFE! MATTHEW 19:17! The ceremonial law of circumcision and animal sacrifices expired at the cross and was done away with, not the righteousness of God, called the Ten Commandments!
1 Corinthians 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. KJV
Here Paul tells us to not keep the ceremonial law (animal sacrifices and circumcision) but to keep the Ten Commandments. We do this by faith receiving grace!
You did not answer even one of my posts with the Bible! Not one! You just posted a bunch of random texts that make no sense!
Abraham kept the commandments of God! The commandments have the Sabbath! It is not that hard to figure out!
THe death of Christ sealed the New Testament! THis cannot be denied by anybody! THe blood seals the deal! THis is basic beginning Bible truth! How could you not see that? I have proven it from the WORD and you do not accept it! Keep your traditions, but the truth will not change!
Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. KJV
NOTE: If you do not keep the Comamndments of God by faith, then you are a sinner and will be locked out of New Jerusalem, where hell fire will turn the wicked to ashes (Mal 4:2-3)!
John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; KJV
NOTE: If you love Jesus Christ of the Bible! Then you will confess that the Law of God is binding and ask for the gift of the Holy Spirit to obey the Moral Law, called the Ten commandments!
John 15:10
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments , and abide in his love. KJV
NOTE: JOHN 10:30 Jesus and His Father are One, the Law is the same! THere are not two laws one being Jesus' and the other the Father's! THey are ONE there is ONE Law! The Ten Commandments!
Mark 2:27-3:1
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. KJV
NOTE: That ONE LAW includes the Seventh Day Sabbath!
What happens if you break the Ten Commandments because of your worthless tradition (pagan sunworship)?
Matthew 15:3-9
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. KJV
Your worship is vain and worthless! It is your choice to live in sin and break the standard of righteousness, the Ten Commandments! If you accept the Word of God as your standard and not the teachings of man and traditions of man then you will see the truth! THe Bible cannot be any more clear! There is no confusion! THe Law of God can be kept by faith! Grace is received to empower us to obey the Law. THe Law is written in our minds and heart by the power of the Holy SPirit!
If you do not understand this simple truth, just pray and ask God to help you!
2 Corinthians 4:6-7
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. KJV
HOW DO WE OBEY THE TEN COMMANDMENTS? Just as the Bible says to!
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. KJV
BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST! WE DO IT BY FAITH! IN FACT IF YOU ARE NOT OBEDIENT TO THE LAW THEN YOUR FAITH IS VOID!
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. KJV
The BIBLE CANNOT BE ANYMORE CLEAR ON COMMANDMENT KEEPING! IT IS A DUTY! THE ENEMY HAS SO DECEIVED THE WORLD! BUT THE BIBLE IS THE LIGHT OF TRUTH FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO LEAVE THEIR SIN! SIN IS BREAKING THE LAW! Faith does not do away with the MORAL LAW OF GOD!!!! It establishes it for ever! Satan does not like the fact because he is a sinner, a law breaker! John 8:44!
1 John 3:4-6
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. KJV
NOTE: Sin is breaking the moral Law of God called the Ten Commandments! PERIOD! You cannot redefine the Bible to suit your own view! THis is the clear testimony of scripture!
The New covenant allows us to obey the LAW and have it written in our mind and heart! The Law in us ensures sin to be gone from within! THis is so clear!
Hebrews 10:16-17
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. KJV
NOTE: Why does God forget our sin? Because we are not breaking the TEN COMMANDMENTS ANYMORE and committing sin! We are victorious by faith! THe New Covenant has the LAW as the standard! Why? Beacuse we can keep the Ten Comamndments by FAITH!
1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith . KJV
NOTE: Faith does not make void the Law! It establishes it! By faith we receive power to obey all of God MORAL LAW called the Ten commandments, including the Seventh Day Sababth! Period!
1 John 2:4-5
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. KJV
To know Jesus is to know the Law! Why? Because the Law is a transcript of His eternal loving character! It is eternal LOVE! The commandments are principles that reflect His perfection of Charcater! They are principles of covenant relation!
If you love Jesus, do not have other gods!
If you love Jesus, do not make graven images!
If you love Jesus, do not take His Name in vain!
If you Love JESUS, REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY!!!!! That would be the Seventh not the first!!!
If you love Him you will not hate the wonderful law of liberty, the Royal law, the Ten Commandments!
1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. KJV
The COMMANDMENTS OF GOD ARE NOT GRIEVIOUS! We can keep them by receiving divine power called grace! This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ! We can receive Grace by faith! Through faith we get grace! If you will believe that God can save you form sin (matt 1:21) then he will give you grace to obey the Law, and you will be free from sin (law breaking)!
Praise God for His truth that cannot be controverted! It is clear!
Goodtidings!
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Post by faithbypower on Apr 12, 2009 2:25:50 GMT -5
Abraham lived under the patriarchal age not the Mosaic age. ------------
So the Moral Law was only Just, good and holy, (Rom 7:12) for the Mosaic age, so Abraham could live in Sin and the Jews are the ony ones to be put to death for sin? Right!
So us christians can live like devils, steal, lie, adulterise, covet, dishonour our parents, etc. and still go to heaven, because God's standard is only for the Mosaic age, Right?
Boy, those poor jews, God just did not like them, to put them under such a tastmaster that Ol Moral Law, that alfull law of death. Or does the Bible state Liberty, James 2:12
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and **his seed** were the --> promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, --> which is Christ.
v.29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye **Abraham's seed,** and --> heirs according to the promise.
Abraham kept God's Commandments, Jesus Kept His Fathers Commandments, and if we are in Christ, We are to keep His Commandments, the same as Abraham who was faithful. Phil 4:9
Abraham Kept the 7th Day Sabbath, Jesus Kept the 7th Day Sabbath, Christians Kepted the 7th Day Sabbath after His Death nearing 70 A.D.
Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be **not** in the winter, neither **on** the --> sabbath day:
The Law of God is a tastmaster if you are in the flesh (carnal nature), but if you have the Spirit of God, (Power to overcome) it is a joy and have a willness to performe (2 Cor 8:11-12) (Faith by grace) out of love (sincere, humble heart) for the saviour to have redeem us from death. (sanctification - set apart from sin)
If ye love me, Keep my Commandments, and I will pray to the Father, and He will give you another comforter.
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 12, 2009 3:27:06 GMT -5
The words of Jesus Christ Himself, state to keep the Sabbath AFTER the Cross in 70AD when the Christians had to flee the destruction of Jerusalem! Jesus Christ tells people to remember the Sabbath after the cross by 40 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matthew 24:20
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: KJV
You will get no stronger evidence than this! You must accept it, if you love Jesus Christ....the Bible Jesus....and not a Jesus that we manufacture in our own minds by false theories and doctrines of men that err from the truth!
The SABBATH is now hereby confirmed forever after the cross of Calvary, and the truth cannot be controverted! It is clear!
Goodtidings
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Post by debonnaire on Apr 12, 2009 8:37:44 GMT -5
But where is it written that all the righteous will observe the Sabbath in the times of the end ? All that this verse says, is that Jesus knows beforehand that some of his believers will obersve the Sabbath. And indeed what these believers will do when they will be arrested and maybe tortured or chased like animals ? Will they say to those who hate them : you can't persecute us now , we are observing the Sabbath, come back rather tomorrow....
Abraham was justified without the works of the Law , and so was Moses who by faith preferred to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Was Moses more righteous when God gave him the Law than he was before, when it is said in the Scriptures that he already received from God a good report ?
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Post by debonnaire on Apr 12, 2009 9:03:55 GMT -5
Jesus was speaking to Jews who have always been used to the Sabbath
The Beast will hate all true Christians -whatever they observe the Sabbath or not.
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Post by faithbypower on Apr 12, 2009 18:03:19 GMT -5
But where is it written that all the righteous will observe the Sabbath in the times of the end ? -------------
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, (Hear His Voice, Have Faith) and give glory (His Witness in us by the Spirit, Grace - Power to obey His Voice) to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: (The Books of heaven are open to our work of faith and labor of Love. 1 thess 1:3) and --> worship <-- him that **made heaven**, and **earth,** and the **sea,** and the **fountains of waters.**
Revelation has to do with the End Times, The statement is about having Faith in Receiving God's Words (Prov 2) and to give Glory to Him only by His indwelling Spirit, Grace to be a witness of His Character, His Law (Rom 3:31)
Which then states we are in the Judgment hour, where the Lord is reviewing the books of recorded actions not by lip service to see if the works of the Spirit are manifested in our hands. Which the only standard is the Moral law of God,
What other Standard is their debonnaire, The Bible states worship refers back to the 4th Commandment of the Moral Law.
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the *LORD made* --> heaven and earth, --> the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Revelation the End time book, is calling us back to the Sabbath of the 7th Day, not any day we wish.
For Sin is the Transgression of The Law, and the Wages of Sin is Death.
So Jesus died on the Cross to change the Law which Just, holy and Good? Jesus Died so we can continue in lawlessness against His standard of Worship.
Only Satan hates His Law and His sabbath.
---------- The Beast will hate all true Christians -whatever they observe the Sabbath or not. -----------
What is a true Christian.
Those Who have the Righteousness (Ps 119:172-173) of Christ in them, which the deeds of the Law are manifested in love out of a sincere heart (mind) by the Power (Grace) the works of the Holy Spirit of God. Rom 8:4
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the **commandments of God** , and have the --> testimony (charcater) of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience (sufferings, the waiting) of the saints: (Ps 31:23) here are they that **keep** the commandments of God, and the --> faith **of** Jesus.
Who are the saints:
O love the LORD, all ye **his saints**: for the LORD preserveth the --> faithful, <-- and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.
What does faith state is:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might **receive** the promise of the --> Spirit <-- through *faith*.
And the Spirit is Called What?
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the **blood of the covenant,** wherewith he was sanctified, (set apart) an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the --> Spirit of grace? <--
So Grace is the Holy Spirit, which is:
Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the **gift of the grace** (Holy Spirit) of God given unto me by the effectual **working of his --> power**.
The Power which does What?
heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
To have the faith of Jesus is to Walk in the Power He had, which the standard is the Moral Law, And What day did He Keep out of love of the Father?
Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
If Jesus is in us, what is the action out of love to be seen by others
Phil 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, **and seen in me,** --> do: and the God of peace (Ps 119:165) shall be with you.
Jesus Christ was not a catholic, nor did He ever kept sunday the day of the sun holy as the Moral Law.
You and I will be held accountable as all us are to the Entire moral Law of God by the knowledge or willful acts of our conscience written in our hearts and minds.
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 12, 2009 21:02:57 GMT -5
I think Matthew Peters, good tidings, and faithbypower are all the same person.
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Post by faithbypower on Apr 12, 2009 22:07:54 GMT -5
Messengermich
Sorry to disagree, For I know I am not Matthew Peters or Goodtidings. But I do agree The Bible agrees with itself on the issues stated within the group mentioned, not on the persons involved.
Please look at the Doctrine, not the names, but the Character of the Lord
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
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Post by goodtidings on Apr 13, 2009 3:04:25 GMT -5
Micah,
Goodtidings and Matthew Peters are the same! Faithbypower is my friend and ministry partner!
How are things in Florida? I hope you are leading many sinners to Christ! Are you still living in your travel trailer and preaching? I pray you are and I hope you are blessed! I pray your wife is doing well also!
I wish I could have been at the last SOPA conference down in Florida, but we stopped by Mike Andersons after he got back and he said it was awesome. I would have liked to see you and Jesse, but I had other things on my schedule.
Anyway, lets talk about the gospel and things if you have some time... Praise God and keep up the "Good Work" by God's grace!
Matthew
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