Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 3, 2009 17:58:03 GMT -5
I received an email from a brother in the Lord after sending out my newsletter. I thought it would be good to share that dialog here:
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EMAIL I RECEIVED:
I have a question about something you wrote. You said:
"Gnosticism teaches that sin is a substance, that matter has moral qualities, that our flesh is sinful, therefore we cannot be morally perfect in this life until glorification. The truth however is that moral qualities can only be prescribed to states of the will, not states of matter. Only what violates God's law can be considered sinful. God's law tells us what types of choices to make, not what type of body to have. Therefore our choices can be sinful, but not our flesh or nature."
I'm particularly confused by the last sentence. The Bible refers to our "flesh" and our "sinful nature" throughout (depending on the translation). It seems quite clear that our "flesh" can be sinful, somehow (not necessarily the body, however). Paul says something like, "For in my flesh there is no good thing." He then goes on to refer to feeling a pull between the sinful nature and what is right. I, personally, believe that he is referring to his pre-salvation stance in Romans 7, but either way, the idea seems to be there that the flesh or nature can indeed be sinful.
Can you help me understand what you mean?
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MY ANSWER:
The Bible does talk about our "flesh" but it doesn't say that our flesh is in and of itself sinful. Our flesh is an instrument that we could use for sin or we could use it for righteousness (Romans 6:13). Just like a rock. A rock is not sinful in and of itself. But I could use it as an instrument for evil, I could kill a person with it. Or I could use a rock for good, build a wall or a house or something. There is no moral qualities in a rock in and of itself. Likewise, our flesh is just dirt (Genesis 2:7). Dirt cannot be sinful anymore than a rock could be sinful. Besides, God forms us in the womb. It is God who gives us our flesh. Because our flesh is amoral in and of itself, we can use it for good or evil. We can sanctify our flesh, that is, use it for God's use (1 Thes. 5:23). If we sanctify our flesh, it is considered a holy sacrifice (Rom. 12:1). The lusts of the flesh are not sin, they are temptation (James 1:14). The devil tempts us to gratify our good and natural God given desires in an unlawful and unnatural way.
The strongest argument that the flesh is not sinful in and of itself is that Jesus Christ has the exact same type of flesh or nature that we have (Heb. 2:14-18). His nature or flesh was made in all points like our own. Yet Jesus was perfect and without sin. Therefore our flesh must not be sinful. The Gnostics said that the flesh, like all matter, was sinful. That is why they denied that Jesus Christ came in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3; 2 Jn 1:7).
The NIV translates the word for "flesh" as "sinful nature". But they are inconsistent in their translation. If they always translated the word flesh into sinful nature, 1 John 4:3 and 2 Jn 1:7 would say that if you deny that Jesus Christ had a sinful nature, you are an antichrist. But to say that our flesh is sinful is to adopt a Gnostic moral philosophy, to ascribe moral qualities to states of matter in and of themselves.
Moral qualities can only be prescribed to states of the will. That is because morality always has to do with the law of God. God's law does not tell us what type of matter we are supposed to be, or what type of substance our nature is supposed to be made out of. God's law tells us what types of choices we are to make. Therefore moral qualities can only be prescribed to states of the will, but not states of our flesh.
Regarding Romans 7:18, notice that it never said that flesh was "sinful". Nowhere in the entire Bible is flesh said to be sinful in and of itself. In context, Paul is saying that his flesh desires the gratification that comes through sin. Not that his flesh is itself a sin. Eve's own fleshly desires tempted her. God gave Eve natural desires which she choose to gratify in an unnatural and unlawful manner. Our flesh doesn't care if it is gratified lawfully or unlawfully, because it is amoral, it just wants gratification. The fleshly desire for sex can be gratified through fornication or marriage, the flesh doesn't care which one. But because the man in Romans 7 lived a life of self-indulgence and gratification, his flesh began to viciously desire the gratification that came through sin. That is why he had to battle with his flesh, because the more you indulge it the more vicious it's desires are. He had a habit of self indulgence and he needed to form the habit of self denial, the habit of rightly using his flesh for the glory of God, using his body the way God intended him to use it when God created it.
Jed Smock said this in his commentary on Romans 7:18 "Paul achnowledges his own depravity. The reason nothing good dwells within his flesh is that he is still committed to selfishness, not that his flesh is innately sinful. He recognizes that he is sold out to sin. And since his heart and mind are still committed (reluctantly now) to gratifying the lusts of the flesh, there is no motive within him strong enough to change his direction to perform what he knows he ought." Jed also commented on Romans 6:13 and said, "The word 'yeild' shows that sin is an act of the will, not a mysterious substance behind our will causing us to sin."
Sin is a choice, not a substance. Sinfulness is a state of the heart, a state of the will, not a state of the body or flesh.
Some people are confused when the Bible talks about "sinful flesh" (Romans 8:3). It says that God made His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh. But that simply means that he was made in the likeness of men (Php 2:7). The word "flesh" is sometimes used in the Bible to simply mean "men" or "people". For example, the Bible says that all flesh has corrupted his way upon the earth (Gen. 6:12).
HERE IS A STUDY ON THE WORD FLESH
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE MEAN BY FLESH?
There are three uses for the word flesh in the Bible:
1. Individual People
2. Physical Body
3. Living for gratification, that is, living to gratify body and mind
1. FLESH = PEOPLE WHO INHABIT THE BODY
The word "flesh" as in "body" is sometimes used in the Bible to mean people (those who inhabit the body).
Examples would be:
"And God looked upon the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh has corrupted HIS way upon the earth." Gen. 6:12
"And Jesus answered and said unto him, blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Matt. 16:17
"... God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh" Rom. 8:3, which means, "... was made in the likeness of men." Php. 2:7
So sometimes the word "flesh" simply means "people" or those who inhabit the body.
2. FLESH = PHYSICAL BODY
The word "flesh" sometimes simply means "body".
Examples would be:
"For though we walk in the flesh" 2 Cor. 10:3
"And my temptation which was in my flesh" Gal. 4:14
".... for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh" Col. 2:1
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh..." 2 Jn. 1:7
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God." 1 Jn. 4:3
When the Bible says that we are supposed to sanctify our flesh, or present our flesh as a living sacrifice, it means that we are to use our body for the service of God.
Examples would be:
"Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin; but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." Romans 6:13
"I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness." Romans 6:19
"I beseech you, therefore brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Romans 12:1
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thes. 5:23
When the Bible says that Jesus took upon Himself human flesh, it means body. But Jesus never used his body to sin. Jesus had the same flesh that we have (Heb. 2:14; 1 Jn. 4:3; 2 Jn. 1:7).
A Christian has the same flesh after regeneration/conversion as they had at birth. Our flesh will never change until glorification. But we can sanctify our flesh and use it for God. The difference between a sinner and a Saint is that the former lives to gratify their flesh, the latter uses their flesh in the service of God.
Our flesh is not sinful. The way we can choose to use our flesh, in a selfish way, is sinful. Our flesh is just a tool according to Paul (Romans 6:13, 19), which we could use for righteousness or for unrighteousness. Our flesh is just dirt (Gen. 2:7) and therefore cannot be sinful. Our flesh cannot be sinful because it is God who forms our flesh in the womb (Gen. 4:1; Ex. 4:11; Isa. 27:11; 43:7; 49:5; 64:8; Jer. 1:5; Ps. 95:6; 139:13-14, 16; Ecc. 7:29; Job 10:9-11; 31:15; 35:10; Jn. 1:3).
3. FLESH = SELFISH or SELF-GRATIFYING LIFE;
LIVING TO GRATIFY THE DESIRES OF THE BODY AND MIND
When the Bible says that we are no longer "in the flesh" it means that we are no longer living for the supreme purpose of gratifying our body and mind. That is what it means to not "walk after the flesh", that is, we are no longer living to serve ourselves or to please ourselves. The supreme pursuit of a Christian is to glorify God, but the supreme pursuit of the sinner is to gratify themselves.
Examples would be:
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit" Rom. 8:9
"That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lust of men, but to the will of God." 1 Peter 4:2
"This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." Gal. 5:16
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." Gal. 5:24
".... some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh" 2 Cor. 10:2
"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." 2 Cor. 7:1
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." 1 Jn. 2:16
In Summary:
Christians still live “in the flesh” (2 Cor 10:3), but they do not live “according” to it. (2 Cor 10:2) The physical body that Christians have is the same exact physical body they had when they were children of wrath (Php 3:11-12), and it will remain the same exact body until they die (2 Peter 1:14) until the resurrection when they receive a glorified body. (1 Cor 15:53-54)
While the constitution itself is the same, the usage of the constitution has changed. Christians have obeyed the command to “present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service” (Rom 12:1). “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.“ (Gal 5:24) Christians are those who “let not sin reign in” their “mortal body” to “obey it in the lusts thereof”. (Rom 6:12) Christians have gone from being governed by the flesh (Col 3:7) to being governed by Christ. (Col 1:13) They have cleansed themselves from the filthiness of the flesh. (2 Cor 7:1)
THIS IS A TRACT I WROTE THAT DEALS WITH THIS ISSUE:
ARE MEN SINNERS BY CHOICE OR CONSTITUTION?
May you know the truth and may the truth set you free! (John 8:32)
Merriam-Webster’s 11th collegiate dictionary defines:
Choice: “the act of choosing: selecting; power of choosing: option.”
Constitution: “the physical makeup of the individual especially with respect to the health, strength, and appearance of the body. The structure, composition, or physical make up, or nature of something.”
Do individuals become sinners by their own personal, moral choices? Or do individuals become sinners by their inherited physical constitution? The answer to such a theological question is of vital importance, as it directly affects the way we view sin and sinners; God and His government; the wisdom or reasonableness of God‘s requirements and the justice of His wrath.
Choices are voluntary, inherited constitutions are involuntary. Choices are optional, inherited constitutions are unavoidable. If it’s by inherited constitution that individuals become sinners, then it’s not by choice. If it is by choice that individuals become sinners, then it is not by constitution. If it’s by necessity, then it is not by liberty. And if it is by liberty, then it is not by necessity.
Those who have advocated a constitutional sin often attempt to use Ephesians 2:3 in support of their doctrine: Eph. 2:3 “Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the others.”
In context of the whole verse this passage means that those who choose to walk after “the lust of our flesh“, to gratify “the desires of the flesh”, are therefore children of wrath “by nature”, that is, they are children of wrath because they selfishly serve their flesh, because of their habit, conduct, character, custom, or manner of life. “Children of wrath” (Eph 2:3) are very simply “children of disobedience” (Eph 2:1) who are wrongly using their constitutions, who are choosing to walk in a manner of life that is forbidden and selfish, thereby creating for themselves a wicked character.
Let it be clear that God is the author of our nature, that is, God is the author of our constitution (Isa. 49:5; Jer. 1:5; Ps. 139:13-14; Ecc. 7:29), so He forms each of us in the womb in His image (Gen. 1:26-27, 9:6; Jas. 3:9). Therefore we are all created with a free will and a conscience, created capable of good or evil. Since God created us capable of moral action, capable of forming moral character, we are subjects of His Moral Government, designed to be governed by Him. The word nature can be used to describe a man’s God given constitution (Rom 1:31, 2:14, 2:27; 2 Tim 3:3) or the word nature can mean a man’s chosen character, custom, habit, or manner of life (Jer. 13:23; Acts 26:4; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:2-3; Gal 2:15; 2 Tim 3:10; 2 Pet 1:4). While God is the author of our metaphysical constitution, each man is the author or self-originator of their moral character (Ecc. 7:29; Matt. 12:34-35, 15:19; Mk. 7:21-22; Lk. 6:45).
Only what is physical, our fleshly bodies, is hereditary. (Gen 1:21, 1 Cor 15:38-39, Heb 2:14) While we inherit our physical bodies from our parents, which are now subjected to death and disease because of Adams sin (1 Corinthians 15:21-22), we do not inherit our parents guilt. (2 Kings 14:6, Deu 24:16, 2Chr 25:4, Eze 18:2-4, Eze 18:19-20) Sin is a personal choice, not a hereditary substance. We originate our own sin; sin is not transmitted or inherited. Neither do our souls come from our parents but rather our souls come directly from God in its spiritual condition. (Ezekiel 18:4) That is why a child is neither guilty of evil nor praiseworthy of good until he himself is born and make’s his own choices. (Rom 9:11) And so each man is responsible for “the things done in his body”, and is judged “according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad”. (2 Cor 5:10) In punishment or reward, it is all according to their own works. (2 Cor 11:15, Rev 22:12)
The flesh has lusts, cravings, or desire, which can be gratified through the forbidden means of sin. (Gen 3:6) These lusts are at first involuntary lusts, cravings, or desires, being strictly physical and not moral. There are involuntary physical desires and then there are intentional committals of the will. One is involuntary while the other is intentional. The former is physical, the latter is moral. But involuntary physical impulses do not bring forth moral (or immoral) sin until the will selfishly serves them supremely (James 1:15) instead of self sacrificially serving the highest well-being of others. (Luke 10:27). Physical temptation becomes immoral sin when the will yields itself to it.
It was the natural, physical lusts, cravings, or desires of the flesh which were the source of temptation for Eve in the Garden. (Gen 3:6) She “saw that it was good for food”, “pleasant to the eye”, and “desired to make one wise”. These were all natural, physical appetites for food and wisdom which she sought to gratify through sin or disobedience to God. This was the first case in history when a human being submitted their will to serve their flesh supremely rather then submitting their will to the truth of God revealed to their minds. This was the first case in the history of a human individual doing what feels good over against what she knew was good. And this is exactly what every sinner does.
Sin is a corruption of yourself or a personal choice to corrupt yourself. (Exo 32:7, Deu 9:12, Deu 32:5, Jdg 2:19, Hos 9:19) Sin is a corruption of what was meant to be good. (Gen 1:31) Walking in the flesh bears fruit unto death. (Rom 7:5) The fleshly lusts wage war against the soul. (1 Peter 2:11) To be carnally “minded“ (phronema = purposed), is death. But to be spiritually “minded“ (phronema = purposed), is life and peace. (Rom 8:6) Those who are carnally purposed, “do mind [phroneo =interest oneself in] the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit [interest themselves in] the things of the Spirit. (Rom 8:5)
The lust of the flesh, or desires of the sensibilities, are the source of temptation for sin. (Rom 7:21) Sin consists in selfishness which is being self-purposed, self-interested, self-serving or self-willed. (Isaiah 14:13-14, 2 Peter 2:10) This is when one’s will is for their own happiness supremely. But the revelation of moral truth presented to the mind or intelligence, as revealed by the Spirit of God, is an influence towards obedience and submission. (Rom 7:12-13) Obedience consists in being self sacrificial, God-purposed, God-interested, God-serving, or God-willed. (Luke 9:23) This is when one’s will serves God and not self. (2 Cor 5:15)
The demands of the flesh as imposed by the sensibilities and the demands of the Spirit as presented to the intelligence are contrary on to another, being hostile towards each other, being at an antithesis. (Rom 7:23) The former demands self indulgence and self-service supremely, the latter demands self denial and God-service supremely. (Rom 7:25)
“Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.” (Rom 6:13) The physical constitution of man is a mere tool or an “instrument” without any inherit moral character in and of itself. The body is properly and strictly neither moral nor immoral, good nor bad, sinful or holy, in and of itself apart from it’s usage as controlled by the human will. As a tool or “instrument“, the body or “members” can be an “instrument of sin” or an “instrument of righteousness“, depending on what the human will “yields” it to. (Rom 6:13)
“As ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.” (Rom 6:19) “For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” (Gal 6:8)
Christians still live “in the flesh” (2 Cor 10:3), but they do not live “according” to it. (2 Cor 10:2) The physical body that Christians have is the same exact physical body they had when they were children of wrath (Php 3:11-12), and it will remain the same exact body until they die (2 Peter 1:14) until the resurrection when they receive a glorified body. (1 Cor 15:53-54) While the constitution itself is the same, the usage of the constitution has changed. Christians have obeyed the command to “present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service” (Rom 12:1). “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.“ (Gal 5:24) Christians are those who “let not sin reign in” their “mortal body” to “obey it in the lusts thereof”. (Rom 6:12) Christians have gone from being governed by the flesh (Col 3:7) to being governed by Christ. (Col 1:13) They have cleansed themselves from the filthiness of the flesh. (2 Cor 7:1)
Sin is when the will is submitted to the sensibilities, to the lusts, desires, or affections of the flesh (I John 2:16), over against the moral demands of God clearly perceived by the mind. (John 1:9, John 16:8) Sinners do what “feels good,” seeking their own pleasure and happiness as the end in which they are in pursuit. But obedience is when the will is submitted to what is “logikos“ or “reasonable“ or “rational“, when the will performs it‘s “reasonable service“. (Rom 6:13) This is when a sinner comes unto God to “reason together” (Isaiah 1:18), when he comes to his senses (Luke 15:17), when the sinner “considers and turns” (Eze 18:28) when the will submits to the intellect, or to the moral truth of God which the Spirit reveals to the Mind. (Acts 17:11)
Christians do what they “know is good” for the glory of God and the well-being of others. (Matt 22:37) Those who walk in the Spirit do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. (Gal 5:16) A single individual cannot serve both the flesh and the Spirit, serve both self and God, or serve any two Masters at the same time. (Matt 6:24, James 3:11) It is by willfully escaping “the corruption that is in the world” that comes by obeying “lust“, by yielding unto the moral demands presented by the Spirit, that we become “partakers of the divine nature“. (2 Peter 1:14)
The bad nature (or old man, Rom 6:6, Col 3:8-9) is when you submit your will to the sensibilities (Eph 4:22), when you use your body as an instrument for sin. (Rom 6:13) But the divine nature (or new man, Eph 4:24, Col 3:1-2, Col 3:12-14) is when you submit your will to your intellect (Col 3:10), when you use your body as an instrument for righteousness. (Rom 6:13) This is when a person “does by nature the things contained in the law.” (Rom 2:14)
The mind was designed to receive revelation or moral truth from the Spirit of God. (Rom 2:15) The will was designed to be under submission or obedience to the mind, to obey it‘s moral demands. (Rom 6:17) And the sensibilities were meant to serve the will and mind, to wholesomely and wonderfully experience and enjoy life. (Ecc 5:18, 1 Tim 6:17) The will was always supposed to rule over the sensibilities. (Gen 4:7) But sinners have established the gratification of the sensibilities as supreme, having subjected the will to be in submission or obedience to the impulses and pleasures of the sensibilities. (Php 3:19) And they have suppressed in unrighteousness the truth of God as revealed to the mind. (Rom 8:1, 2:8; 2 Thes 2:10, 2:12). And so sinners have “perverted that which was right” (Job 33:27), using for evil what was intended for good.
Sinners are enemies of God through wicked works (Col 1:21), because they are obeying the “lust of the flesh” or wrongly using their natures, constitutions, or faculties (Eph 2:3). Because sinners have indulged the flesh, rather then mortify it’s members, they have come under the wrath of God. (Col 3:5-6)
All sin in essences consists in a wrong moral choice (1 John 3:4) to serve self as opposed to serving God‘s glory and the well-being of others (Luke 10:27). Sin is a condition of the heart, a selfish state of the will. (Matthew 15:19) This is why there is no scriptural reason for any sort of “physical” regeneration in this life in order to be saved, because there is no such thing as “physical” sin, but only a physical temptation which attempts to direct the will. (Gal 4:14, James 1:14) The flesh, with its lusts, is the source of temptation, but it is not sin itself. And so the body does not need to be removed before we can be saved, or before we can have victory over sin in this life (Gal 1:4), but rather God’s grace teaches us to ‘deny ungodliness and worldly lust” that we would be “godly in this present world”. (Titus 2:12) And so Christians are to glorify God while in their physical bodies. (1 Cor 6:20) Whether absent or present in the body they are to be acceptable unto God. (2 Cor 5:9)
Rather then a physical regeneration, the Spirit of God brings about a “moral” regeneration at conversion (2 Cor 4:16), because all sin is a moral choice, all sin consists in sinning. (1 John 3:4) Sin is willful rebellion against what the mind knows is right, against perceived moral knowledge. (Heb 10:26, James 4:17) Sin is always avoidable, always being optional. (1 Cor 10:13) The Spirit changes our will (Eze 18:31, 36:26), not by force or by might, but through the influence of truth upon the mind by the Spirit (John 6:44, John 12:32, John 17:19, Titus 3:5), so that we can be saved in this life. (1John 3:14) And if the will changes, everything changes! (2 Cor 5:17)
But the Spirit does not change our physical bodies, in this life, in order for us to be saved. Conversion is not the reception of any new faculties, but it is the proper use of the present faculties. (Rom 6:13, 6:19) Christians are spiritually, not physically, transformed in this life. (Rom 12:2) This is truly what it is to be “born again” (John 3:3) or to be “born of the Spirit”. (John 3:6) And we will receive a glorified body, which is not subjected to death and disease, in the next life. (1 Cor 15:42, Php 3:21)
The choice to serve the lust of the flesh unto death or to obey the truth of the Spirit unto life is freely yours. (Deu 30:19, Gal 6:8) Turn from the idol of self unto the living God! (Thes 1:9) If you turn away from all wickedness and do what is lawful and right, God will forgive you instead of punished you. (2 Chron 2:14, Eze 33:13-14) If you repent, God will give you mercy and grace because of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:8) Those who submit their will to the Spirit, rather then the flesh, have no condemnation in Jesus Christ. (Rom 8:1) Those who obey Christ from the heart have eternal salvation. (Heb 5:9, Rom 6:17) Christ was crucified for you and rose from the dead that you might be forgiven. (Matt 16:21, 1 Peter 2:24) But you must “obey the truth” to have forgiveness in Christ. (Gal 3:1) You must die to self-will. (1 Cor 15:31) You must crucify your flesh. (Gal 2:20, Gal 5:24) You must forsake all. (Luke 14:33) You must deny yourself. (Matt 6:24, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23) And you must follow Christ. (John 10:27) Choose you this day who you shall serve! (Joshua 24:15)