|
Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 13, 2009 11:13:17 GMT -5
The Christian faith says that God forgives by His grace and mercy, through the atonement, those who repent of their sins. If we believe in an atonement that saves us without repentance, we believe in a false atonement and we have false faith. No atonement like that exists. If we believe in a God that forgives without repentance, we have faith in a false God, not the God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible only forgives those who forsake their sins. The Atonement of the Bible makes conditional forgiveness available to everyone. Only those who believe in a God who pardons upon condition of repentance have true faith. Only those who believe in an atonement that makes it possible for God to forgive those who repent have true faith.
If you trust in an unconditional forgiveness, you have false assurance. So many think they are saved because they believe that Jesus died for them, yet they haven't repented and therefore they aren't saved. Jesus died for all, but only those who repent are saved by His death.
The Churches today are full of false faith because the Churches today are full of preaching of a false atonement. The atonement does not make repentance null and void. But it is because of the atonement that God can forgive those who repent, and it is a knowledge of the atonement that brings us to repentance.
|
|
|
Post by logic on Aug 17, 2009 13:54:36 GMT -5
If we believe in an atonement that saves us without repentance, we believe in a false atonement and we have false faith. There problem is that they think the atonement saves. If the atonement saves, then there would be no need to repent.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 17, 2009 22:53:46 GMT -5
If the atonement automatically and unconditionally saved, then the entire world would have been saved for the past 2,000 years.
The atonement makes it possible for God to pardon or forgive those who repent and believe. The atonement opens the way for forgiveness, it makes it available. But until conversion when a person repents and believes, they are not forgiven.
The problem is that many think that the atonement "satisfied God's wrath" and therefore those whom Jesus died for are no longer under God's wrath neither can they ever come under God's wrath again. But God still has wrath after the atonement. God struck King Herod in Acts. Romans says God has wrath against all ungodliness. And Revelation shows God's bowls of wrath full. The atonement did not satisfy God's wrath, but through the atonement God is able to TURN FROM His wrath when sinners repent. Forgiveness is when God turns away from His wrath, when He sets aside His wrath.
If Jesus "satisfied God's wrath" then we have been saved from God's wrath for the past 2,000 years. But this is not the case. Before I was converted, I was under the wrath of God. And if I return to the broad road, I return to the wrath of God.
|
|
|
Post by logic on Aug 17, 2009 23:36:13 GMT -5
The atonement makes it possible for God to pardon or forgive those who repent and believe. The atonement opens the way for forgiveness, it makes it available. But until conversion when a person repents and believes, they are not forgiven. Amen!!! It is a relationship with Christ Jesus that saves. Is it that Jesus satisfied the Law? Is it how God is Justified in forgiving us who repent(Rom 3:26)? The Atonement incorporates the concepts of: 1: propitiation (appeasement, satisfaction) Of God 2: forgiveness of the offender 3: reconciliation between God and the offender. Heb. 9:22 for without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sinIn other words; without the clearing of the character of God, there is no giving up the punishment of a crime. Atonement is required for the reason of proving the true worth of God and His character while forgiving the offender of the crime against God. The atonement acknowledges the true value and worth of God by the One who is sacrificed on behalf of the guilty.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 17, 2009 23:59:07 GMT -5
1. It could not have been the wrath of God that was satisfied because God still has wrath after the atonement.
2. By substituting the eternal punishment of sinners with the suffering and death of Christ, the purpose of penalty is satisfied. The atonement is a replacement or alternative for hell fire. The purpose for penalty, under the government of God, is satisfied by the atonement.
3. What purpose does a government have for penalty? The purpose of penalty is to manifest to all of the subjects the Rulers regard for His law, to support the precept of the law, to maintain the authority and influence of the law, to prevent or discourage the spread of rebellion. By substituting our penalty with Christ's atonement, all these purposes are accomplished and therefore the purpose of the penalty is satisfied. The atonement of Christ accomplishes what the penalty executed upon sinners would have accomplished.
4. If the purpose of the penalty is satisfied, the penalty itself can be remitted. Forgiveness is the remission of the penalty. That is why the atonement makes the forgiveness of sins possible, because the atonement satisfied the purpose of penalty and therefore the penalty can be withheld or remitted by grace and mercy.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 18, 2009 1:54:04 GMT -5
These are points I have put together for a Gospel tract:
GOD HAS GIVEN A MORAL LAW FOR OUR WELL-BEING:
“… what doth the Lord thy God require of thee… To keep the commandments of the Lord and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?” Deuteronomy 10:12-13
GOD HAS MADE HIS LAW KNOWN TO ALL PEOPLE:
“For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their heats, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another” Romans 2:14-15
SIN IS THE CHOICE TO DISOBEY GOD’S KNOWN LAW:
“Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, we see, therefore your sin remaineth.” John 9:41
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” 1 John 3:4
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” James 4:17
GOD HAS GIVEN US THE POWER OF CHOICE:
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life.” Deuteronomy 30:19
“Choose you this day whom ye will serve.” Joshua 24:15 ALL MEN HAVE CHOSEN TO BE SINNERS:
“And God looked upon the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.” Genesis 6:12
“God hath made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions.” Ecclesiastes 7:29
“All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way…” Isaiah 53:6
EACH PERSON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR PERSONAL CHOICES:
“Yet say ye, Why? does not the son bear the iniquity of the father?.. The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son...” Ezekiel 18:19-20
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad” 2 Corinthians 5:10
GOD MAINTAINS AND ENFORCES HIS LAW BY PUNISHING SINNERS:
“Behold I set before you this day a blessing and a curse: a blessing if ye obey the commandments… And a curse if ye will not obey the commandments…” Deut. 11:26-28
“He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness…” Acts 17:31
THE PUNISHMENT FOR OUR SINS IS ETERNAL HELL:
“Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord…” 2 Thes. 1:9
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Rev. 20:15
THE ATONEMENT SUBSTITUTES OUR PUNISHMENT:
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities” Isa. 53:5
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust…” 1 Pet. 3:18
OUR PUNISHMENT CAN BE REMITTED SINCE ATONEMENT HAS BEEN MADE:
“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” Matt. 26:28
“… without shedding of blood is no remission.” Heb. 9:22
GOD STILL HAS WRATH FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN THEIR SINS:
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness” Rom. 1:18
“But after they hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath”. Rom. 2:5
FORGIVENESS IS WHEN GOD TURNS AWAY FROM HIS WRATH:
“Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sins. Selah. Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger.” Psalms 85:2-3
IF WE TURN FROM OUR SINS GOD WILL TURN FROM HIS WRATH:
“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.” Isaiah 55:7
“He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy” Proverbs 28:13
“Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee” Acts 8:22
“Repent, ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out…” Acts 3:19
|
|
|
Post by logic on Aug 18, 2009 12:16:09 GMT -5
1. It could not have been the wrath of God that was satisfied because God still has wrath after the atonement. Okay, my bad: 1: propitiation (appeasement, satisfaction) Of God's law. GOD HAS GIVEN A MORAL LAW FOR OUR WELL-BEING: GOD HAS MADE HIS LAW KNOWN TO ALL PEOPLE: SIN IS THE CHOICE TO DISOBEY GOD’S KNOWN LAW: GOD HAS GIVEN US THE POWER OF CHOICE: ALL MEN HAVE CHOSEN TO BE SINNERS: EACH PERSON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR PERSONAL CHOICES: GOD MAINTAINS AND ENFORCES HIS LAW BY PUNISHING SINNERS: In regards to man sinning against God, we are not sinning against any moral governmental judicial structure. There is no atonement for sinning against such. All sin is against God personally. His law is only to show us what and how we accomplished by breaking it. Whenever anyone disobeys God, they do it "to His face". They are not only braking God's law, but virtually not trusting God, calling Him a liar, stating by their actions that God can not be trusted and that He is no authority to make any boundaries. Proclaiming that God is not good in providing what is needed for staying within His boundaries. In doing this they sin. God's law is not founded in the Person-hood of God, it is a representation of who He is, a reflection of His character. Whenever anyone sins, they are transgressing what they know to be true (that there is a law which is being broken) which proclaims that they are autonomous, self governing and in no need of support from anyone &/or anything apart from them selves. They are basically saying, "I am that I am". Doing this they are opposing and exalting themselves above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that they deem themselves as God (2Thessalonians 2:4). All mankind has brought damaged to Gods character or tainted His holy Name by braking His Law, disobeying His Commandments, rebelling against His Word & authority. Sin insults God to a degree that His character is maligned and He is defamed and virtually dethroned by the offender. We did not sin in away as to owe God a debt as in the form of a sum, but in the way of disbelief and unfaithfulness, which deems God to be a liar on our behalf and in doing so, we destroy His character; this is elevating ourselves over God and putting ourselves in His place. We owe God the repair or renewal of His character which we maligned.
|
|