Post by chuckfinney on Oct 16, 2009 10:28:37 GMT -5
<holding a candle>
My name is Matt, and I’m a recovering “Original Sin-aholic”…
But seriously, it’s good to find a site that understands the true Bible doctrine of sin.
My story. I've been corresponding with a "reformed" Christian brother here at work about theology. We have been discussing Doctrines relating to "Depravity", "Sin", and "Man's Nature", etc. We've been going back and forth for about 6 years now… When we first discussed our theological differences a few years back, we went in circles regarding the 5 TULIP points. Since then, we were able to realize that focusing on the first point,"total depravity" would help us zero in on the source of our discussion. As we have been discussing total depravity, we’ve seen similar, but more minor run-arounds. Later, the Lord revealed to me something that I had been blind to for years, that it goes much deeper than how sin affects the human race, but that it delves into the very definition of "sin" itself, and that the supposed doctrine of original sin is not found in the Bible as I had once been taught.
You see, ever since I can remember I was always taught from others that man possessed a sinful nature, and that we inherited this sinful nature from Adam. I never questioned this solid doctrine called "Original Sin". To ever question it would be to go against everything I was taught by Pastors, mentors, and fellow-Christians alike, ever since I was a child. I've always believed that I had a sinful nature, that I was guilty of Adam's sin, and that mankind was born spiritually dead… to believe anything else would mean being in danger of becoming a heretic.
Well after much tedious study, everything I've been debating for 6 years, finally clicked.
Here are the changes in what I believe:
• The doctrine of "Original Sin" is not found in the Bible
• Mankind did not inherit or is guilty of Adam's transgression.
• Mankind did not inherit and does not have a sinful nature.
• Babies are born spiritually alive (not spiritually dead).
• Babies are accountable when they know how to refuse evil and choose good.
• When children reach the age of accountability and choose to sin, they become separated from God (Spiritually Dead).
The first, second, and third bullet points really had a big impact on me when I realized them. It was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders that I had on them all my life. I was no longer guilty of something I did not do, and it made my own sin much more personal. I've always knew that Jesus died for my sins but this made it much more real. Jesus died for MY sins, and forgave MY sins, not Adam's sin. It was like being born-again, again. I also realized I did not posses a sinful nature, and that was freeing as well. Many times when I was confronted with temptation, I would have this nagging idea that the sinful nature was pushing me into that direction. If I did give in to temptation I would often think "the sinful nature had a small part in this". In turn I would blame the sinful nature rather than my own self. Now, I sin much less, and when I do sin, I realize that it is all my own doing. I also look at people differently now.
Here are just a few things to consider:
• Does a person need a sin nature to sin? Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature and yet they sinned. Satan and his angels did not have a sin nature and they sinned as well.
• Do you really believe that babies are born with sinful natures and guilty of Adam's sin? If so, then it follows that babies go to hell when they die?
• If sin nature is passed down from Adam, how is it passed down? Through the body? The blood? The spirit?
• Jesus was a man and tempted in all ways and yet he was without sin. If "Original Sin" is true, then Jesus was born with a sinful nature and inherited Adam's sin just like the rest of us.
• Romans 5:12 says "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". Paul says that "Death" passed unto all men…. Not that a sinful nature passed unto all men. There is a big difference between the two. He also says that it was passed onto all men because they "sinned", not that they inherited it.
• It is from the teachings of Gnosticism, with its pagan philosophical belief that all material things are essentially evil, that the doctrine of original sin was born. Augustine, the father of the doctrine of original sin, was for many years a disciple of the Manichaeans, which was a Gnostic sect. His doctrine of physical moral depravity and of inherited physical sinfulness had its roots in the teachings of Gnosticism.
Anyway, I did not come to these conclusions by just perusing the Bible, but through much agonizing study, and have the whole of scripture to back it up. I feel blessed that the Lord snatched me out of that deceitful doctrine. It grieves me that the majority of the Body of Christ clings to this false doctrine that debilitates them from seeing the full truth. All of their proof texts say nothing about “Original Sin” at all.
Below is a site of a book called “Are men born sinners”. It helped to pull me out of the mire called “Original Sin”. It’s definitely worth reading.
www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbsindex.htm
-Matt
My name is Matt, and I’m a recovering “Original Sin-aholic”…
But seriously, it’s good to find a site that understands the true Bible doctrine of sin.
My story. I've been corresponding with a "reformed" Christian brother here at work about theology. We have been discussing Doctrines relating to "Depravity", "Sin", and "Man's Nature", etc. We've been going back and forth for about 6 years now… When we first discussed our theological differences a few years back, we went in circles regarding the 5 TULIP points. Since then, we were able to realize that focusing on the first point,"total depravity" would help us zero in on the source of our discussion. As we have been discussing total depravity, we’ve seen similar, but more minor run-arounds. Later, the Lord revealed to me something that I had been blind to for years, that it goes much deeper than how sin affects the human race, but that it delves into the very definition of "sin" itself, and that the supposed doctrine of original sin is not found in the Bible as I had once been taught.
You see, ever since I can remember I was always taught from others that man possessed a sinful nature, and that we inherited this sinful nature from Adam. I never questioned this solid doctrine called "Original Sin". To ever question it would be to go against everything I was taught by Pastors, mentors, and fellow-Christians alike, ever since I was a child. I've always believed that I had a sinful nature, that I was guilty of Adam's sin, and that mankind was born spiritually dead… to believe anything else would mean being in danger of becoming a heretic.
Well after much tedious study, everything I've been debating for 6 years, finally clicked.
Here are the changes in what I believe:
• The doctrine of "Original Sin" is not found in the Bible
• Mankind did not inherit or is guilty of Adam's transgression.
• Mankind did not inherit and does not have a sinful nature.
• Babies are born spiritually alive (not spiritually dead).
• Babies are accountable when they know how to refuse evil and choose good.
• When children reach the age of accountability and choose to sin, they become separated from God (Spiritually Dead).
The first, second, and third bullet points really had a big impact on me when I realized them. It was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders that I had on them all my life. I was no longer guilty of something I did not do, and it made my own sin much more personal. I've always knew that Jesus died for my sins but this made it much more real. Jesus died for MY sins, and forgave MY sins, not Adam's sin. It was like being born-again, again. I also realized I did not posses a sinful nature, and that was freeing as well. Many times when I was confronted with temptation, I would have this nagging idea that the sinful nature was pushing me into that direction. If I did give in to temptation I would often think "the sinful nature had a small part in this". In turn I would blame the sinful nature rather than my own self. Now, I sin much less, and when I do sin, I realize that it is all my own doing. I also look at people differently now.
Here are just a few things to consider:
• Does a person need a sin nature to sin? Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature and yet they sinned. Satan and his angels did not have a sin nature and they sinned as well.
• Do you really believe that babies are born with sinful natures and guilty of Adam's sin? If so, then it follows that babies go to hell when they die?
• If sin nature is passed down from Adam, how is it passed down? Through the body? The blood? The spirit?
• Jesus was a man and tempted in all ways and yet he was without sin. If "Original Sin" is true, then Jesus was born with a sinful nature and inherited Adam's sin just like the rest of us.
• Romans 5:12 says "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". Paul says that "Death" passed unto all men…. Not that a sinful nature passed unto all men. There is a big difference between the two. He also says that it was passed onto all men because they "sinned", not that they inherited it.
• It is from the teachings of Gnosticism, with its pagan philosophical belief that all material things are essentially evil, that the doctrine of original sin was born. Augustine, the father of the doctrine of original sin, was for many years a disciple of the Manichaeans, which was a Gnostic sect. His doctrine of physical moral depravity and of inherited physical sinfulness had its roots in the teachings of Gnosticism.
Anyway, I did not come to these conclusions by just perusing the Bible, but through much agonizing study, and have the whole of scripture to back it up. I feel blessed that the Lord snatched me out of that deceitful doctrine. It grieves me that the majority of the Body of Christ clings to this false doctrine that debilitates them from seeing the full truth. All of their proof texts say nothing about “Original Sin” at all.
Below is a site of a book called “Are men born sinners”. It helped to pull me out of the mire called “Original Sin”. It’s definitely worth reading.
www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbsindex.htm
-Matt