Post by canuck211 on Oct 24, 2009 22:55:22 GMT -5
I have always agreed with Dan Corner that sins such as worry (Phil. 4:6) or unthankfulness (Col. 2:7) are not shown anywhere to send one to hell. For anyone that does not know, Dan Corner is an evangelist who wrote the book, "The Believer's Conditional Security." His ministry is Evangelical Outreach and he focuses heavily on refuting the doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved.
In Scripture, we are given specific lists by both Paul and Jesus of certain sins that will condemn one to hell (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Eph. 5:5-7, Gal. 5:19-21, Rev. 21:8, etc). These lists usually include sexual immorality, adultery, murder, theft, lying, greed, etc. They usually include commands from the moral law as well as some other commands against things like drunkenesss and the magic arts. There are more of these lists in Scripture but I am just giving a few. If these lists are not exhaustive, why would Jesus or Paul not include more sins? Surely they knew that this is an extremely important issue. Why would they give us incomplete lists over and over again if they knew more that could cause spiritual death for the believer?
Dan Corner defends his belief by saying that some sins are not shown anywhere to cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God. He also says that we can read about different degrees of sin by reading Ezekiel 8 which talks about there being more detestable sin. Also he says that some commands are greater than others (Mt. 22:36-39). Finally, he concludes that 1 John 5:16-17 talks about sins unto spiritual death and sins not unto spiritual death.
I am not sure about the last three points but I do agree that sins like worry or unthankfulness are not shown anywhere to cause spiritual death like adultery or murder do. I have also thought of a few arguments of my own.
Didn't Jesus command us to not do our acts of righteousness before men (Matt 6). If we disobeyed this command, would we not be committing sin? The punishment for this sin is not condemnation to hell but rather loss of rewards in heaven. So we see that not all sin is condemnable but some causes loss of rewards in heaven.
When Jesus is speaking about loving our enemies in Matt. 5, he did say in Matt. 5:46 that if we do not love our enemies, we will not get any reward. This sounds like rewards in heaven similar to Matt. 6 and not condemnation to hell.
Jesus did say a good tree can not bear bad fruit (sin) (Matt. 7:18). We could assume Jesus meant any and all sin but look what Jesus said about what sins would make a man "unclean".
18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "
Another slightly different list can be found in Mark 7:20-23. So we see that Jesus named specific sins that would cause a man to be unclean. Jesus never said that worrying or not turning your cheek would cause you to be unclean.
The Apostle John did say the Christian isn't sinning at all (1 Jn. 3:9), but didn't John only define sin as transgression of the law (1 Jn. 3:4)? Could we say that he was speaking only of the moral law when he said a Christian does not sin?
Paul said not to have any filthy language from your lips (Col. 3:8). So, any time a believer would let a curse word slip under his breath in a moment of anger, he is condemned unless he repents? Also where is the line drawn about filthy language? I know some people's opinions vary on this. This just sounds like it is getting into legalism to me.
And what about the sermon on the mount? If a Christian does not turn his cheek if he is slapped, is he condemned to hell unless he repents?
I am not saying that Christians should not strive to do these things. I do believe all Christians should strive for them. But I believe that things like worry, unthankfulness, not turning our cheek, etc. are rewards issues and not salvation issues. I believe that the specific lists of sins given to us by Paul and Jesus are salvation issues.
In Scripture, we are given specific lists by both Paul and Jesus of certain sins that will condemn one to hell (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Eph. 5:5-7, Gal. 5:19-21, Rev. 21:8, etc). These lists usually include sexual immorality, adultery, murder, theft, lying, greed, etc. They usually include commands from the moral law as well as some other commands against things like drunkenesss and the magic arts. There are more of these lists in Scripture but I am just giving a few. If these lists are not exhaustive, why would Jesus or Paul not include more sins? Surely they knew that this is an extremely important issue. Why would they give us incomplete lists over and over again if they knew more that could cause spiritual death for the believer?
Dan Corner defends his belief by saying that some sins are not shown anywhere to cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God. He also says that we can read about different degrees of sin by reading Ezekiel 8 which talks about there being more detestable sin. Also he says that some commands are greater than others (Mt. 22:36-39). Finally, he concludes that 1 John 5:16-17 talks about sins unto spiritual death and sins not unto spiritual death.
I am not sure about the last three points but I do agree that sins like worry or unthankfulness are not shown anywhere to cause spiritual death like adultery or murder do. I have also thought of a few arguments of my own.
Didn't Jesus command us to not do our acts of righteousness before men (Matt 6). If we disobeyed this command, would we not be committing sin? The punishment for this sin is not condemnation to hell but rather loss of rewards in heaven. So we see that not all sin is condemnable but some causes loss of rewards in heaven.
When Jesus is speaking about loving our enemies in Matt. 5, he did say in Matt. 5:46 that if we do not love our enemies, we will not get any reward. This sounds like rewards in heaven similar to Matt. 6 and not condemnation to hell.
Jesus did say a good tree can not bear bad fruit (sin) (Matt. 7:18). We could assume Jesus meant any and all sin but look what Jesus said about what sins would make a man "unclean".
18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "
Another slightly different list can be found in Mark 7:20-23. So we see that Jesus named specific sins that would cause a man to be unclean. Jesus never said that worrying or not turning your cheek would cause you to be unclean.
The Apostle John did say the Christian isn't sinning at all (1 Jn. 3:9), but didn't John only define sin as transgression of the law (1 Jn. 3:4)? Could we say that he was speaking only of the moral law when he said a Christian does not sin?
Paul said not to have any filthy language from your lips (Col. 3:8). So, any time a believer would let a curse word slip under his breath in a moment of anger, he is condemned unless he repents? Also where is the line drawn about filthy language? I know some people's opinions vary on this. This just sounds like it is getting into legalism to me.
And what about the sermon on the mount? If a Christian does not turn his cheek if he is slapped, is he condemned to hell unless he repents?
I am not saying that Christians should not strive to do these things. I do believe all Christians should strive for them. But I believe that things like worry, unthankfulness, not turning our cheek, etc. are rewards issues and not salvation issues. I believe that the specific lists of sins given to us by Paul and Jesus are salvation issues.