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Post by Paranormal Preacher on Mar 11, 2010 21:46:35 GMT -5
Hey all,
I have been studying my theological point of view (Wesleyan Arminianism) and have been struggling HARD with the Once saved always saved doctrine. Can any of you gave me some hard Scriptural evidences against this doctrine to study? I cant seem to find anything on this topic in the theological library either. If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm stuck at a cross roads with a tough feeling against the doctrine of having a sin nature and also once saved always saved yet I don't have the resources against this. I continue to reach back into what I have learned over the years about Salvation such as Romans 8:29-30 outlining the “golden chain” of salvation by pointing out that those who were foreknown by God were predestined, called, justified, and glorified—there is no loss along the way.
Philippians 1:6 tells us that the work God began in us, He will also finish. Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches that God has sealed us with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance until we possess it. John 10:29 affirms that no one is able to take God’s sheep out of His hand. There are many other Scriptures that say the same thing.
Where do I find scripture to refute this? Yes this is a sincere plight. I agree that we can backslide, but don't have the knowledge to back it up.
All of my friends in Ministry are with this doctrine. Anything you could provide with an in-depth scriptural reference would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Post by Brother. Ross on Mar 12, 2010 11:45:36 GMT -5
Hey all, I have been studying my theological point of view (Wesleyan Arminianism) and have been struggling HARD with the Once saved always saved doctrine. Can any of you gave me some hard Scriptural evidences against this doctrine to study? I cant seem to find anything on this topic in the theological library either. If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm stuck at a cross roads with a tough feeling against the doctrine of having a sin nature and also once saved always saved yet I don't have the resources against this. I continue to reach back into what I have learned over the years about Salvation such as Romans 8:29-30 outlining the “golden chain” of salvation by pointing out that those who were foreknown by God were predestined, called, justified, and glorified— there is no loss along the way. Philippians 1:6 tells us that the work God began in us, He will also finish. Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches that God has sealed us with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance until we possess it. John 10:29 affirms that no one is able to take God’s sheep out of His hand. There are many other Scriptures that say the same thing. Where do I find scripture to refute this? Yes this is a sincere plight. I agree that we can backslide, but don't have the knowledge to back it up. All of my friends in Ministry are with this doctrine. Anything you could provide with an in-depth scriptural reference would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Hebrews 3:12; 6:4-6; 10:38,39 1Tim 4:1 2Peter 2:20-22 James 5:19,20
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Post by Paranormal Preacher on Mar 12, 2010 15:12:09 GMT -5
Thanks Bro. Ross!
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Post by Steve Noel on Mar 12, 2010 16:11:47 GMT -5
Jason,
Could you give a little more info? You say that your theological view is Wesleyan Arminian but you say you've been taught Once Saved Always Saved over the years. There aren't too many Arminians who hold to OSAS. If you're able to pick up a book or two I can recommend some for you.
Steve
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Post by Paranormal Preacher on Mar 15, 2010 22:29:06 GMT -5
OK, Let me elaborate a bit more without writing a book. As I stated above, "I have been studying my theological point of view (Wesleyan Arminianism)". My reference to the WA is where I am standing at this point and moving forward. Actually, would like to move away from the wesleyan side. I did a 6 year mentorship in a UMC Church and was rooted in Wesleyan theology which is OSAS. I hope this helps to clarify my statement. Yes I do have access to a large bookstore. In fact, I have one heck of a library as I love to read. Thanks for your help Steve.
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Post by debonnaire on Mar 17, 2010 15:45:29 GMT -5
one born again christian out of two will end up in hell.
5 wise virgins , 5 foolish ones
the foolish ones do not abide in Christ and in His words. Thus they burn ( John 15:6 ) Maybe because they have not denied themselves ( luke 9:23-24) , maybe because they care about the things of the world ( mark 4:19), there can be several reasons for their falling away....
"Once saved always saved" is a doctrine of man centered on man, and not on the Lord and saviour who , by only One sacrifice has perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)
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Post by Steve Noel on Mar 20, 2010 20:16:35 GMT -5
Jason, Thanks for the attempted clarification but it's still quite confusing. You say that Wesleyan theology is OSAS but that is not the case. Neither Wesley nor most (any?) of the early Methodists believed in OSAS. The United Methodist church today might (no idea?) but that wouldn't surprise me too much since they ordain homosexuals as well. The vast majority (all?) of the groups whose roots are in the early Methodist revival that have not gone into liberalism do not hold to OSAS either. I'm thinking here of the Free Methodists, Nazarenes, Wesleyans, and the various Holiness and Pentecostal denominations. I'm not sure what you've been exposed to but it's not genuine Wesleyan Arminianism. I have quite a few systematic theology texts from these groups and not one promotes OSAS or any version of unconditional eternal security. Here's a link to a page I've created for Arminian Theology resources. If you click on "Works Opposing Eternal Security" near the top it will take you to some good books. www.squidoo.com/arminianresources#module26813062Steve
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 31, 2010 16:08:07 GMT -5
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