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Post by benjoseph on Jun 24, 2010 22:42:36 GMT -5
These are some things I've been praying for understanding about.
Is God in heaven or everywhere?
If God is everywhere then what is the point of saying he is in heaven?
Could God be 3D instead of like a giant invisible cloud that overlaps everything?
Why would God employ angels as messengers if he is right next to my ear?
Are angels only one-way messengers?
Could it be that heavenly creatures relay human prayers to God?
Does God read everyone's mind all the time?
If he does then why does he ask both people and angels seemingly genuine questions?
Does the fact that God is able to search our hearts and know our thoughts mean that he always watches every thought we have all day long?
If God always reads our minds all day long then what is the point of praying out loud?
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Post by crossreference on Jun 25, 2010 6:39:01 GMT -5
Seems you have a lot to deal with benjoseph that only sincerity of heart can only bring you understanding.
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Post by benjoseph on Jun 27, 2010 0:14:39 GMT -5
Any thoughts about the seven spirits who send a greeting through John in the Revelation?
I've heard people say it is seven aspects of a single being - the holy spirit - and quote from Isaiah or somewhere. I always thought that was a stretch considering they send grace and peace along with the Father and the Lord Jesus.
I just looked it up in Revelation, they are represented by seven lamps before the throne (illuminating the throne? shedding light on God so-to-speak?). They are also the seven eyes of the slain Lamb sent out into all the earth (sounds kinda like the holy spirit). They are lights before the throne and the lambs eyes in the earth. They may also be distinct from the seven stars. Jesus says he has both the seven spirits and the seven stars. I'm not really sure what's going on there.
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Post by crossreference on Jun 27, 2010 8:18:57 GMT -5
In attempting to look into this sort of thing, we must always remember that "Unity"; the desire of Jesus' prayer in John 17, with Him and the Father would be achieved by us who Love Him. This unity is expressed in all His created beings who are 'totally' devoted to Him. Perhaps it is time we understand the meaning of the word, "totally" to mean, "completely abandoned to Him"; take my life to the cross, leave it there for Him and walk away from it..
In this can be seen the results of unity in the Father inasmuch as we should well sense the seven Spirits all being God manifested TO His creation.
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Post by benjoseph on Jun 27, 2010 9:12:33 GMT -5
In attempting to look into this sort of thing, we must always remember that "Unity"; the desire of Jesus' prayer in John 17, with Him and the Father would be achieved by us who Love Him. Amen! I believe the unity of God and Christ is a unity of love and not like the Trinitarian spiritually conjoined triplets idea. Jesus was totally abandoned to the Father and the Father would give anything for Jesus as well. You mean these seven spirits are so totally devoted to the will of the Father that it is like having the Father with us? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is actually seven different spirits?
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Post by crossreference on Jun 27, 2010 11:30:24 GMT -5
Jesus is not omnipresent. Can you sort that out in your anti-Trinitarian thinking?
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Post by benjoseph on Jun 27, 2010 13:07:46 GMT -5
Jesus is not omnipresent. Can you sort that out in your anti-Trinitarian thinking? This is my take on it so far. The non-omnipresent Father sent his non-omnipresent Son to earth, he came down (literally moved down in a non-omnipresent way) from heaven and changed from a non-omnipresent divine being into an even more non-omnipresent little baby (maybe a single cell in size at first? totally microscopic and divine.) who grew into a normal man. Col 2:9 says all the fullness of deity lived bodily in him. That seems to imply that no aspect of his former nature was omnipresent or still in heaven with the Father. Eventually he ascended (up) again to his non-omnipresent God in heaven (up, sky, space, etc.). And - Heb 1:8 - God said to his son "Your throne O God is forever" which is basically two Gods according to the psalm he is quoting, though I think we usually call the Father God and Jesus the Lord. Even Jesus calls the Father his God because the Father is the ultimate God over all, even though his Son is also our God.
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Post by crossreference on Jun 27, 2010 14:30:28 GMT -5
"seem to imply"; "maybe a single cell in size"? What kind of mindset is that for one who wishes to discuss Jesus Christ, be He man or God or both?
Through that crap away and start over from the beginning.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word God".
Question: If you believe the Word was Jesus Christ at that point in time, who was His Mother?
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Post by benjoseph on Jun 27, 2010 16:12:27 GMT -5
"seem to imply"; "maybe a single cell in size"? What kind of mindset is that for one who wishes to discuss Jesus Christ, be He man or God or both? I was in a mindset of total awe thinking about the incarnation. Did you disagree with something? Are you really seventy something years old? haha, nice one To me it sounds like either 1) there were two God's, one greater than the other, or 2) The word was not personal like in Christadelphianism, or 3) the verse contradicts itself and is trinitarian I don't think he was called Jesus at that time. But to answer your question Jesus had no mother back then.
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Post by benjoseph on Jun 28, 2010 19:53:00 GMT -5
"seem to imply"; "maybe a single cell in size"? What kind of mindset is that for one who wishes to discuss Jesus Christ, be He man or God or both? I was in a mindset of total awe thinking about the incarnation. Did you disagree with something? I asked that because I didn't understand your question about my mindset.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jun 29, 2010 9:33:33 GMT -5
I'll do my best to answer these questions ;D
Is God in heaven or everywhere?
Everywhere, but it is representativly. Just like the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit indwells the Christian representativly through the word of God. God is everywhere representativly through his creation.
If God is everywhere then what is the point of saying he is in heaven?
If God is omnipresent in the representative sense then it is plausible that when one speaks of God being in heaven that he is speaking of the fullness of God.
Could God be 3D instead of like a giant invisible cloud that overlaps everything?
I don't think so but I also don't think he's an invisible cloud that overlaps everything. This is interesting though. If one supposes that God is 3D and then he is literally omnipresent then one would expect to see God when he puts on those goofy looking glasses at the movie theater.
Why would God employ angels as messengers if he is right next to my ear?
Good question, but I don't believe that God is omnipresent in that sense.
Are angels only one-way messengers?
They weren't in the Old Testament. However, in the New Testament, we no longer have a need for Angels.
Could it be that heavenly creatures relay human prayers to God?
Perhaps in the Old Testament, but under the New Testament, Jesus Christ is the intercessor and he is not a heavenly "creature." Romans 8:34
Does God read everyone's mind all the time?
Yes and no. I think the things that God "reads" in our minds are selective. It's obvious that in the Old Testament that God chose to withhold his knowledge of particular actions that an individual may have taken.
If he does then why does he ask both people and angels seemingly genuine questions?
Because sometimes he chooses to withhold his knowledge. He could have asked genuine questions in order to spur an individual in the right direction. Perhaps there's many reasons.
Does the fact that God is able to search our hearts and know our thoughts mean that he always watches every thought we have all day long?
They're definitely being recorded.
If God always reads our minds all day long then what is the point of praying out loud?
Prayer does not have to be done out loud. Many times in the Old Testament, prophets would pray to God while standing before the king yet, the king didn't hear what the prophets would be praying.
We should pray in order to receive. 1 John 1:9 says "if." Prayer's a condition that must be met in order for God to do some things.
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Post by crossreference on Jun 29, 2010 13:33:56 GMT -5
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Post by crossreference on Jun 29, 2010 13:35:14 GMT -5
Then how was He begotten . . back then?
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Post by benjoseph on Jun 29, 2010 20:44:10 GMT -5
Then how was He begotten . . back then? I don't understand the question. Begotten seems like a vague word to me. Could you explain what you are asking? If I knew what you meant by "begotten" then I could try to answer whether Jesus was "begotten back then".
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Post by benjoseph on Jun 29, 2010 21:00:13 GMT -5
Could God be 3D instead of like a giant invisible cloud that overlaps everything?I don't think so but I also don't think he's an invisible cloud that overlaps everything. This is interesting though. If one supposes that God is 3D and then he is literally omnipresent then one would expect to see God when he puts on those goofy looking glasses at the movie theater. Could God have a spirit-body? Why or why not? Why? But we still pray here on earth too. Is it possible that spiritual beings are relaying information to heaven about the Church? Withholding knowledge seems kind of awkward. I've heard of that idea before though. Is it a result of trying to reconcile the traditional doctrine of omniscience with the Bible?
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Post by crossreference on Jun 30, 2010 4:54:03 GMT -5
"I don't understand the question. Begotten seems like a vague word to me. Could you explain what you are asking? If I knew what you meant by "begotten" then I could try to answer whether Jesus was "begotten back then".
Well, it isn't. It is words like this that, if not properly understood and not incorporated into what we take into our understanding, will readily screw up much else we might feel quite sure about. I will leave you to look up the word. That way is always the better approach retaining anything. . . ))
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