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Post by HDmatt on Oct 19, 2006 20:37:31 GMT -5
I was working today at the Chevy dealership and overheard something that caught my attention. The source was the cause of alarm, not the subject matter. In Mississippi folks are more laid back. So a usual day at the dealership convo includes the usual banter of hunting, trucks, and gossip with the usual vulgarity and blasphemy on the side. The source I was talking about came from a middle aged redneck(M.A.R.)(a compliment here) who is also a false convert in a modern gospel country church(not a compliment) started talking about shakira which caused me to take the ear plugs out that I had for the brakes i was removing. After the ranting heard of her lewdness & plenty of lascivious talk the Lord prodded me to encounter such hypocrisy. The main two talking were a lost person who knows he is lost and the false convert. After their talk died down I asked both of them if someone spewed constant blasphemy over and over right in front of them would they stand for it. m.a.r. told me he wouldn't appreciate it at all. I then brought up why in the world would anyone then watch and be enticed by a perverted woman who has yet to repent and come into Gods fold and is headed for hell and brag about it also, and furthermore commit mental adultery on their wife?! Just to drive the point home, I told the lost person his behavior is expected and blind people act blind, but a professing Christian is compromising his own claims, and such behavior is condemned. The whole time I looked at my friend the lost person. The M.A.R. jumped up and walked off, not speaking to me the rest of the day. I felt bad about it because he is a nice guy :-/but consoled myself in 2 thess. 3:12-14 which in my opinion is the chapter for work. Paul wrote that chapter just for employment I think! Be not weary in well doing!
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Post by ejuliot on Oct 20, 2006 0:21:33 GMT -5
Praying that God will change these men...
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Post by HDmatt on Oct 21, 2006 23:27:03 GMT -5
Really appreciate all the prayer! Even if its a chevy dealership, It still NEEDS a revival!
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Post by mahatma on Oct 23, 2006 11:41:30 GMT -5
Do you guys feel it's appropriate to minister/witness to people at work?
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Post by ejuliot on Oct 23, 2006 17:58:55 GMT -5
Do you guys feel it's appropriate to minister/witness to people at work? Yes, as long as I am not neglecting my work. why would it not be?
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Post by berean73 on Oct 23, 2006 18:35:46 GMT -5
I do it all the time at work, and I too do not neglect my work. As a matter of fact my job has proven to be quite a fruitful field of evangelism. Plus I get to travel some, and therefore get to reach out to folks outside of my little city. I say amen, it's no different than hitting the streets.
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Post by HDmatt on Oct 23, 2006 19:52:25 GMT -5
Do you guys feel it's appropriate to minister/witness to people at work? Just to set this thing up..........three ppl have been saved by the grace of God at work since I have started, all by his power transforming the lives of a drug dealer into a humble man, a smoking, drinking, partying wife in a failing marriage into a stay at home mom who sings in the choir and has an awesome marriage now, and a lazy oil changing teenager into now a hard working firefighter. Christ changes lives as well as turns from hell! Just today someone asked me a question about baptism. We didn't get in trouble! We just dialogued. Who wants to live in a COMMUNIST STATE!!!
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Post by mahatma on Oct 24, 2006 10:00:37 GMT -5
I didn't mean to suggest that you shouldn't minister when you are at work...as long as your employer doesn't mind paying you money to perform religious conversions who am I to complain? (I would be pissed about it if you worked for me, but you don't, so meh)
I was referring more to preaching/ministering to other people who are at work. In general I think preaching is within your rights, but it seems like preaching to someone at work could realy be unfair, since the person doesn't have an opportunity to leave if they want to keep their job. If someone asks you to stop talking about it do you or do you press the matter?
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Post by ejuliot on Oct 24, 2006 13:21:02 GMT -5
well, I think it depends on where you work. If I were an air traffic controller, it might not be a good idea to preach the gospel at work. In my case I work at my school and they actually pay me to sit there and do nothing. I usually finish my work in 30min and I "work" for two hours. The rest of the time my boss and I talk about spiritual things, or whatever we talk about. I had a friend who worked for Curves. Her job was to talk to the ladies who were working out but they were not aloud to talk about politics or religion. I would never take that job. I would probably get fired in a week. How can I not help but to talk about God. It would be as if there was a big elephant in the room and I was trying to do everything in my power to not bring it up in a conversation. Even questions like "How are you doing today"or "what do you want to do with your life?", "what are you doing this weekend?", "How is your family?"...God is apart of everyone of those answers!
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Post by mahatma on Oct 24, 2006 14:00:10 GMT -5
Yes, but say on the other hand you were a customer at Curves. Would you consider it appropriate to talk to the trainers/employees there about religion?
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Post by ejuliot on Oct 24, 2006 23:47:42 GMT -5
Yes, but say on the other hand you were a customer at Curves. Would you consider it appropriate to talk to the trainers/employees there about religion? If I were a customer I would talk about whatever I wanted. If someone is really mad and they don't want to listen to me all they have to say is enough. I haven't had a situation yet were I have cornered someone and wouldn't let them get away even though they wanted to. What usually happens is the people who get mad stick around to yell and argue. I once talked to a guy on the phone who called the wrong number. He kept saying that he didn't want to talk and I would say goodbye and wait for him to hang up and then he would start talking to me again. I think most people want to talk even if they don't like what you have to say because they want to tell you what they think. I think that is one reason that non-Christians stick around this message board. But if they are allowed to talk then I am as well. ;D
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Post by mahatma on Oct 25, 2006 1:42:38 GMT -5
Ah, but I have no problem with people thinking whatever they like. I only have issues when people act on their thoughts It is pretty interesting that people would keep talking with you even when saying they don't want to. As for someone saying whatever they want as a customer though, I have to really disagree about its propriety. It seems to me like, as a customer at a business and talking to an employee there, setting a topic of conversation that is outside the realm of the business transaction is unfair. Unfair in the sense that this person is now in a very tricky situation. Even if what the customer is saying is offensive to them or rude, the average employee at the average business isn't going to feel free to respond honestly, for fear of reflecting poorly on their company or taking the chance of garnering a customer complaint. I feel like you guys should preach whatever you want, as long as: 1) you don't preach at someone who doesn't have an honest, real chance to walk away 2) you don't hector or harass an individual, approaching that person multiple times 3) you don't interfere with someone's livelihood 4) you don't preach fire and brimstone to/near small children (or anyone who doesn't have the mental capacity to make informed, rational decisions 5) you don't preach hatred of people (hatred of sin is understandable, and I think we all know the difference?) Those are my thoughts at least. Those all seem to me like pretty reasonable ethical guidelines for any strong, passionate speech directed at people
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Post by ejuliot on Oct 25, 2006 19:23:48 GMT -5
Well, I usually don't keep an employee from doing their job so that I can preach the gospel to them. I have heard of people preaching the gospel to waiters in restaurants but in both cases the waiter chose to sit down and talk. I can't think of any situations were I did talk to an employee but I really don't get out much so I haven't had too many opportunities. My roommate spoke to a bar bouncer but he would go into the bar and do whatever he needed to do and then come back out and talk to her since he was just standing there anyways. He obviously wanted to talk and the other workers didn't have a problem with it either. I think one BIG exception to the rule would be telemarketers. I hope would preach the gospel to to them if they called. The rules are always different for telemarketers. ;D
As for your rules I don't like the first because you are assuming that we wouldn't stop speaking if someone really did not want to listen or talk. I am not going to let someone go to hell without hearing the gospel just because they don't have an escape route and they might possibly maybe perhaps not want to talk. This situation is hypothetical and highly unlikely from what I have seen so I will continue to preach to people even if they do not have a way out. An example would be how I talked to a bus driver one time and my roommate and I were the only ones on the bus. He was very grateful that I spoke to him even though he wasn't able to walk away.
I have spoken to people more than one time. In fact statistically a person needs to here the gospel 7 times before they are saved (if they are saved). Sometimes one conversation does not cover everything and there are still questions, doubts, or things that person does not understand. It is necessary to speak to people more than one time and many times the other person will want to talk. Does this mean I will badger a person every time I see them? probably not. This is where discretion and discernment come in. For the third rule I think you mean not allow someone to do their job. I think I already answered that.
Funny story on the 4th rule. I was once open airing and I was reading a passage about adultery. When I looked up from my Bible there were about 10 kids standing in front of me. I was a little shocked and of course stop speaking about adultery but the woman with the children was understanding and they all thought it was funny. As for the topic of hell, from what I have seen growing up as a child I saw more murder, violence, sex, etc... from TV, magazines, advertising, etc... than I can possibly fathom. Our culture today is inoculating children with immorality from birth. I think the youngest people I preached the gospel to were about 10-12 and they were cursing God more than intellectual atheistic college students do! Kids are not dumb. If they are being taught at a very young age about sex and violence then they need to be taught about the consequences of these as well. It is known that most children are beginning to have sex and get involved in drugs and alcohol at around 13 years old. I would agree that there are different ways to speak to the disabled and children but that doesn't mean don't speak to them at all. A great verse is "train up a child in the way that he should go..."
Number 5. I speak exactly the opposite. "If any man hates his brother he is a murderer and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."
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Post by mahatma on Oct 25, 2006 19:46:37 GMT -5
Ejuliot, I may not have phrased all of my "rules" as well as I could have. I think most of your points are good ones, and I will try to explain further what I meant for all of them...of course you will still disagree with some of what I have to say 1) Not preaching to someone who has an honest chance to walk away...in my mind this applies in a situation when a person is at work, is a student or teacher in a class that is in session, in a waiting room for some professional (a doctor, the DMV, a grocery store checkout line, whatever). Now, I don't even mean that you shouldn't say anything at all, and I'm not saying that a person shouldn't engage you in conversation when you bring the topic up. My feeling is though that if in a situation like this if a person tells you they don't want to talk it should be honored. No matter how important you think what you have to say is, and how much you think someone needs to hear it, no means no. Not only would it be rude to continue speaking to the person, it would be counter-productive. If every person in the world walked up to anyone they liked and started spouting off whatever was on their minds, and just completely ignored/talked over the other person's protestations on the subject, society would just break down. Granted that's an extreme sort of example, but manners really are important, and another person's right to not have a conversation is as important as your right to have it. 2) I am not suggesting that you shouldn't approach people multiple times who want to talk to you. I am talking more about following someone down the street (which I have seen) waiting to accost someone at their home or business repeatedly (which I have seen) etc. Again, no means no. Repeated attempts at someone who doesn't want to talk crosses the line from good deed to unreasonable harassment. 3) You did already answer that. If the person voluntarily decides to sit down and talk and seems to be engaged in the conversation then so be it. 4) Surely you are not suggesting that because society and some parents expose their children to inappropriate material, preachers should too? I agree that 12 is a reasonable age to speak to someone...a 12 year old can reason. I'm not suggesting that kids are dumb, but young children really do not have the mental/spiritual framework to take in hellfire from strangers. As a realistic example of this rule I strongly disapprove of going to something like a family-oriented event that includes a gay couple with a small child, and talking about how Daddy and Daddy are going to burn in Hell for eternity. It isn't going to accomplish anything and it makes the preacher look bad. Inappropriate is inappropriate whether it comes from HBO, a basketball player, or a street preacher. As for "train up a child in the way that he should go" that's all well and good, but that's the job of the child's parent. Our society doesn't allow for any person off the street to "train up a child" if the person doesn't agree with the exact way the child's parents are raising him, and for good reason. Does it sometimes lead to atrocious little monsters who really ought to be shaken like a martini till they have some sense? Sure it does, but that's the way of things. 5) Good for you
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Post by ejuliot on Oct 25, 2006 20:36:49 GMT -5
I would agree with you on some points but basically it comes down to discernment. Every situation is a little different and has to be approached in a differnt way.
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Post by mahatma on Oct 26, 2006 0:43:09 GMT -5
That is most definitely true. There is an element of judgement and common sense that needs to be applied to everything. The trick, of course, is that "common sense isn't" and good judgement is not a universal virtue That isn't to say that -you- don't have common sense and good judgement, but you know what I'm saying
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