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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 13, 2008 17:31:45 GMT -5
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Post by rebecca on Mar 13, 2008 19:12:32 GMT -5
''Women have two places: In front of the sink and behind the vacuum,'' Armstrong proclaims." I thought Micah's wife worked??? Oh well maybe I'm mistaken.
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 13, 2008 19:58:56 GMT -5
Micah's wife travels the country with him as he preaches...
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Post by rebecca on Mar 13, 2008 20:07:36 GMT -5
Micah's wife travels the country with him as he preaches... Oh ok, I know she used to work. Wasn't she a receptionist at thier church at one time? That's good to see she's not working at all anymore. I don't know how they make it with no income! Especially with these gas prices!
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Post by John McGlone on Mar 14, 2008 6:10:57 GMT -5
God is good. ;D
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 14, 2008 14:44:49 GMT -5
Rebecca,
I hope you don't believe I said women who have jobs are going to hell because I didn't.
You should notice by now I post news articles written about me that make me look terrible and I never attempt to defend myself.
One, because I expect this from a anti biblical anti God society (John 15:18-19).
Two, because I am at least optimistic most who actually have any experience in open air preaching who confront and denounce sin and sinners in no vague, uncertain terms realize most articles written about the preaching will not be factual.
Overall I thought this article was not bad, even though I have not preached that women who have short hair, wear pants or have jobs are going to hell.
I do not agree with women having short hair or wearing pants and sometimes these topics come up on campus.
Some women have no other choice but to have a job, because their husbands divorce them, leave them, etc.
Women who are married and have children should definitely not want to be working.
We are confronting the feminist attitude on campus that is helping to destroy families and society.
The bible is clear that women are to submit to their husbands, be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, obedient to their own husbands, and raise their children (Titus 2:4-5, Ephesians 5:23-27).
The statement about women belonging in front of the sink and behind the vacuum is a provocative, exaggerated, somewhat humorous statement eluding to the above biblical exhortations.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 14, 2008 14:54:42 GMT -5
I don't believe everything that the New York Times, History Channel, or Hollywood says about Jesus Christ. If they say awful things about Jesus, how can we expect the Media to be accurate in their representations of His followers? A servant is not greater then his Master.
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mattmahar
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`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 15, 2008 15:53:24 GMT -5
I will say this that if a women is married and has children she should stay at home and be a mother. But I do believe that a women can work for the sole purpose of caring for her family. As we see in proverbs 31 verses 24, and 25 where the women that is being discussed as virtuous works at making and selling fine linen garments for additional income for the purpose of a means to an end, not an end in themselves.
In Christ Matt
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Post by loonylirette on Mar 15, 2008 16:14:39 GMT -5
Micah Said: I do not agree with women having short hair or wearing pants and sometimes these topics come up on campus.[/quote] I'm wondering if you can comment on this? I know you didn't state women who wear pants are going to hell or anything, yet the principle in this clip is great! video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8734269726301931489
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Post by rebecca on Mar 15, 2008 16:56:57 GMT -5
Rebecca, I do not agree with women having short hair or wearing pants and sometimes these topics come up on campus. Some women have no other choice but to have a job, because their husbands divorce them, leave them, etc. Women who are married and have children should definitely not want to be working. We are confronting the feminist attitude on campus that is helping to destroy families and society. The bible is clear that women are to submit to their husbands, be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, obedient to their own husbands, and raise their children (Titus 2:4-5, Ephesians 5:23-27). The statement about women belonging in front of the sink and behind the vacuum is a provocative, exaggerated, somewhat humorous statement eluding to the above biblical exhortations. I thought maybe you were just being provocative. Alot of women though do work and feel they are expected to get a job and work because this is all society has taught them. I am still learning the right way and I've been a christian for 18 years. I was never taught that in church. My mother always worked and I never saw her. She would go to work, come home and go to bed too tired to talk to anyone. I used to come home from school and cook dinner alot of the time just to help her out. I didn't mind helping her but I hated not seeing her or being able to talk to her. She had a very hard life and died at the age of 62 of cancer. At times she held down two jobs. She was a secretary during the day and even took a job at a gas station at night once. As far as pants goes sometimes it's required if your husband does want you to take a job. There are alot of things women have to compromise on in the work place. I would like to find something that I can do at home like the Proverbs 31 woman. My husband though likes to know that paycheck is coming and with a home business or any kind of business you can't always have that assurance you have to go strictly by faith alone. Also I wanted to add too that we are in agreement with this. I believe that their is God's best as far as the way it should be but it's NOT LAW it's grace and we are not under the law. Also we just got done paying off $5100.00 worth of debt. I am very thankful for my job and my husband who is very hard working and went from an electrician making $8.00 an hour to an assistant manger at a local Int. Airport. He worked during the day and went to college at night. But he could not have gone to college without me working. So he was very wise in his decision for me to work and I'm glad I did! He's alot smarter and wiser than me by far!
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mattmahar
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`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 15, 2008 17:29:18 GMT -5
Here is what I have to say about that sermon: Amen Brother keep on preachen!!
I also agree with you Micah in the area that feminism has run rampant in the society we live in today. Where women have become the men of the households and many of the men have become the women of the households. But I would draw the line on preaching about pants.... It's fine to have that as a personal conviction that you and your family live according to, but to preach this is in fact very legalistic.
But with all fairness to you if the students are the ones that bring up this issue than you have an obligation to stay true to your convictions. (But if I were you and I'm not you, I would also add when preaching this that it is an issue of personal liberty where Christians can have opposing opinions. [and maybe you do mention this I don't know.])
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 17, 2008 11:33:30 GMT -5
It is not a personal conviction it is bible. I am amazed how you guys can bash the charismaniacs, television preachers, prosperity preachers, etc. and then take what one says about women wearing pants as gospel truth.
1 Timothy 2:9-10 is clear. Women are to adorn themselves in modest apparel. This is addressed to women and the word apparel means a dress.
There is liberty for cultures and styles but not for dress.
Again, Matt why do you assume I was preaching it as a main subject? I will say this again, these issues frequently come up and I think we need to address them. When they come up I do address them.
Does your wife wear pants?
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mattmahar
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`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 17, 2008 11:51:10 GMT -5
Did I address it as if you were preaching it as a main subject? No (If anything I was being very gracious, well at least I was trying to be.) Yes my wife wears pants and secondly your scriptural quote about modest apparel has nothing if anything to do with pants. Modesty in dress simply means to dress the opposite of indecent. And to dress indecently would be to dress in a lewd, offensive manner. So how is wearing pants lewd and offensive? Also you said the word apparel means dress and you are correct in saying this but dress here can also mean formal clothing. And according to the Greek the word for apparel is katastolē which also means "a lowering, letting down, a garment let down, attire. But it can also mean that of a dress as you said, but if we take the full meaning of the Greek word it is not limited to that of just a dress. The full context of the Greek word means a type of apparel that fully covers the body as pants do. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Wordsconnected with katastello, "to send or let down, to lower" (kata, "down," stello, "to send"), was primarily a garment let down. (This doesn't have to mean dress, its primary usage is that of a garment that fully covers the body.) Source for the Greek: tinyurl.com/yogk3fHere is a well studied article on this topic. Does the Bible Say It's a Sin for Women to Wear Pants?www.actseighteen.com/articles/women-pants.htmSo Micah, prove to me that women who wear pants are in sin from scripture please!
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mattmahar
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`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 17, 2008 14:04:08 GMT -5
Please tell me that they just made you look bad here and that they left out the context: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDRHC3UuGecAlso Micah I'm not trying to condemn your ministry but the actions in this video appear to be ungodly. I'm willing to believe that they just took things out of context but I would like to hear your side of this. (article excerpt) Because the Bible tells us that we may not judge according to appearance (John 7:24). This means that we may not judge on the basis of insufficient, superficial information. Outward appearance is often deceptive. "Some men's sins are clearly evident, preceding them to judgment, but those of some men follow later. Likewise, the good works of some are clearly evident, and those that are otherwise cannot be hidden" (1 Timothy 5:24,25). Righteous judgment must be based on conclusive evidence. We may not judge on the basis of appearance, personal opinions or unsubstantiated suspicions. In Christ Matt
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 17, 2008 18:52:40 GMT -5
Matt,
Sin will send a person to hell. I have never said wearing pants will send a woman to hell. Why are you asking me to prove something I never said?
What I said was women should not wear pants. Men should not have long hair. Will it send them to hell? I am not sure but I am not going to preach that because I am not sure.
I thought the 1 Timothy 2:9-11 should have been sufficient. Deuteronomy 22:5 says it is an abomination for a woman to wear that which pertains to a man. Pants accentuate the shape of a woman.
In 1 Corinthians 11 it gives the order of God and it gives distinctions in the appearances of men and women (short hair for men, long hair for women).
Do you think Jesus told have truths? This is in reference to your PM to me. Jesus told the Pharisees to destroy this temple and He would build it again in three days. He knew good and well they did not understand what He meant and He did not try to explain Himself.
This is one example of many I could give. Do you think Jesus was being deceptive here as you believe I was being deceptive when I say "Men and women are not equal"?
As to the video you posted, the girl kept referring to herself as a sinner. I made the statement as I usually do that all sinners hate God (John 3:19-20, John 7:7, John 15:25, Romans 8:7, Colossians 1:21).
She went ballistic and began to threaten me and say, "Don't tell me I hate God! I love God! I will punch you in the face!"
I merely mocked her blatant hypocrisy to the crowd by saying, "Don't tell me I hate God I love God and I will punch you out to prove it!"
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mattmahar
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`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 17, 2008 19:57:01 GMT -5
That's not what I was asking you to prove, I was asking you to prove that women shouldn't wear pants.
I have addressed the portion of scripture you claimed was against pants in 1 Timothy also you have referred me to Deuteronomy so did you even watch the video posted and read the article from the link that was posted? If so then it is safe to say that you have fallen from Grace because you now live under the law. Because why would you pick and choose certain verses as being for today? Do you also live by Deuteronomy 11 where it says "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together."?
Also when I say that you have fallen from Grace what I mean by that is if Deuteronomy 22:5 is for today than so are the rest of the ceremonial laws within that chapter. And if you live by the law you fall from Grace. (I'm speaking hypothetically in the above paragraph.)
Yes and so do socks and shirts for that matter. Therefore if you are trying to say that there is a modest way of wearing apparel I would agree but I would not say that women shouldn't wear pants. It is not so much about woman wearing pants (apparel) as it is about how they wear pants (apparel).
Sorry I listened to the video probably 20 times today and I'm not exaggerating and I never heard her say this part " I will punch you in the face." Maybe I'm deaf or something but if she did say it I would have to assume that she said it after you did.
Lastly in the P.M I was referring to what you said and I quote "Yes, this is a provocative and somewhat exaggerated statement that generates discussion." where in part of my reply I stated the following "Also may I add that you said some of your statements are exaggerated only for the purpose to generate discussion. Do you have a Biblical basis for presenting half truth for the purpose of generating a crowd? I'm sure you don't and I would advice you against this because people will in fact use this to discredit your ministry." I wasn't referring only to the statement that "Men and women are not equal"?
Also Jesus didn't present a half truth to the Pharisees, He presented a full truth that was prophetic. (It wasn't exaggerated)
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 17, 2008 20:17:39 GMT -5
Micah I am confused that is why I have responded the way I have above, could you clarify:
First you say:
So is it sin or a matter of personal Christian conviction where there is liberty in Christ? Because above you say that it is Bible and NOT personal conviction but in post #14 you say that "Sin will send a person to hell." So if it's Bible and not personal conviction as you say would it not be sin?
Well since your not sure than you shouldn't be amazed as you say as to how we can bash the charismatics, television preachers, prosperity preachers, etc.
So are you just uncertain about the matter and this is why you are contradicting yourself? If so then it's probably best until you are sure to tell those when this subject is brought up that it is a matter of personal Christian liberty or that your uncertain.
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 18, 2008 11:28:33 GMT -5
Matt,
In the video did you not see the woman being physically restrained? Why do you think she was being restrained?
I would like to see you preaching in action. Please provide a video of yourself preaching to a crowd by people who do not agree with your message.
1) Do you preach outdoors? If not why not?
2) Do you preach directly and confront sin and sinners in no uncertain terms? If not why not?
3) If you do in fact confront sinners and sin in no vague uncertain terms you will be sure to get a crowd. I would like to see you in action responding to a crowd where questions, accusations, slander, threats of physical violence are being hurled at you from every direction.
If you are doing this why aren't they trying to make you look bad (John 15:18-19)? That is if you actually do this.
I can take about any comment you make and show you where it is incomplete.
Please provide this so I can see exactly how I am supposed to handle a large, angry crowd.
I would like to learn from you.
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mattmahar
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`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 18, 2008 22:05:47 GMT -5
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to use in edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Micah where it says in the above to "let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth" this is what it means.
Firstly "corrupt" in the Greek is the word "sapros" meaning:
1) rotten, putrefied 2) corrupted by one and no longer fit for use, worn out 3) of poor quality, bad, unfit for use, worthless
Let it be noted that such words that are of poor quality, bad, unfit for use and worthless SHOULD NOT proceed from a Christian's mouth ESPECIALLY to those who know not God. Our conversation or preaching should promote growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness and holiness. We as Christians should always convey the GRACE of God to our hearers. We should NEVER insult and damage the character of God in our preaching. Would Jesus say what you say when you bring forth the Gospel even in His judgment. God forbid that we would even think that our God would confront sinners in such a hateful way that would jeopardize and discredit even Himself. Micah this is a disgrace to Christianity and such preaching should only be reserved for the comedians platform. Brother Micah your preaching is not seasoned with salt but with pepper only burning the hearts of men causing them to sin against BOTH God and yourself. I am disgusted and saddened about your preaching style and I am even saddened more that you would defend it as believing that you are Preaching the full counsel of God. You are merely as a sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal because you have NOT the charity that the Bible speaks of. And yes you can say the same for me in this reply if it were only true but brother I am confronting you out of love because I have no joy in doing such things. And both the Word of God and Spirit of God commands me to rebuke before all those who sin openly that others may fear.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment.
Brother what does this scripture mean when it says that EVERY IDLE WORD shall be accounted for on judgment day?
It means such words are those kind of words that neglect to minister Grace to the hearers, but it's not limited to that brief but straight forward definition. It also means words that are profitless or destitute of Grace, empty and of NO VALUE, injurious and that are a false testimony of our God. Brother you need to repent because when judgment day comes YOU WILL be judged for every UNNECESSARY and INJURIOUS WORD.
Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Two parts of the above scripture stick out like a sore thumb in reference to you preaching and they are (1.) blasphemy and (2.) filthy communication
Now why did I say blasphemy relates to your preaching in the above? Well blasphemy in the above is translated as meaning (1) slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name AND (2) impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty. Of which your preaching falls under each and every term mentioned. The worst of which it falls under is that your speech is injurious to divine majesty. How?? Because your preaching blasphemes the Holy Person of God in all of His offices. The second part of the above of which your preaching falls under is that of filthy communication. Your preaching is vile in how you approach sinners and describe a sinners actions. I didn't know that sinners had to have their sins described to them in such a manner. I had always thought that sin was made known by the law and not an X rated description. Well at least that is what St. Paul said in Romans but maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe Paul went around telling them how horny young men suduce women to sex.
Colossians 4:6 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
This scripture tells us how we should have our conversation and preaching. What we say should evidently be that that is the opposite of sinful. Our conversation should preserve the Holiness of God in this present and wicked world. We should exemplify Christianity and not exemplify the work of the Devil in how we administer the Gospel of Christ and not just the Gospel but our conversation. And yes there are times that we need to be hard on sin and make this evident for the sake of preserving true Holiness. But Micah what you preach is a counterfeit and it doesn't show true holiness it only shows the depravity and hardness of your heart. You are deceived brother and those that support your preaching and think that there is no sin in it are just as deceived and need also to repent of partaking of your sins.
Now what does the Bible say about how we should present ourselves before the living God?
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, "Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?" In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Job 27:4 my lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.
As Job we should present ourselves in such a way that promotes Godliness and a perfect heart or a conscience devoid of evil. But there are those like you Micah who have their conscience seared as with a hot iron not knowing what is the good and perfect will of God. Speaking like and infidel as if you have no knowledge of God's Holiness. Have you forgotten that it is God who has given and blessed you with the air you breath and the food you eat? Have you forgotten that it was God who delivered you from being a heathen man. Than why act as if a heathen or circus performer. Job did have thoughts brought on by emotions and probably the deadness of his former unregenerated self but he didn't spew these out from his mouth and not think that it wasn't a sin to do so. Micah consider the example of Job
Also Consider the example of Stephen:
Acts 7:54-60 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed with their teeth at him. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, and cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he called upon God and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" And he kneeled down and cried with a loud voice, "Lord, charge not this sin against them." And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
What did Stephen do when the heathen came upon him? Did he retaliate in a way to make their hypocrisy known or did he take it as a man of God and say "Lord, charge not this sin against them." Even our Saviour in His blessed example didn't give a railing accusation for a railing accusation but on the contrary he said in Luke 23:34 "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Do you believe that Micah? Do you believe that you can preach the Gospel in such a way as to not offend the moral law of God?
Mark 15:29 And those who passed by railed at Him, wagging their heads and saying, "Ah, thou that destroyest the temple and buildest it in three days,
Micah your doing exactly what the heathen did to Jesus. Repent Brother Micah of your evil communications when presenting the Gospel. -------------------------------------- Edited: some of the content.
Note: Micah I edited the portion that said "Prophet of God." You are correct in your reply to me in the other thread that you never claimed such. I apologize and repent of using such wording. Also brother I sent you the type of preaching that I am talking about and gave you my comments on it. So you now know exactly what I am talking about in the above in reference to your preaching.
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mattmahar
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`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 18, 2008 22:12:02 GMT -5
I was going to post specific videos with that Micah but each video that I would have posted needs to be commentated in and of themselves for the purpose of showing your un-scriptural preaching.
Brother you need to repent of such foolishness.
P.S: I was thinking today (and have thought about this before) that in the past I had done things that needed to be rebuked openly and though I didn't like being reproved and rebuked openly and sometimes I even had resentment but looking back I think it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Because with all seriousness the times I wasn't rebuked openly such things continued longer than they should have. (Because I was either purposely rebelling or doing it through ignorance.) But since I was rebuked openly I repented and the Lord always blessed me in it.
Lastly Micah I truly love your preaching when it's fully Moral Law and Bible. I actually think it is some of the best preaching I have seen coming from a street preacher and I say that with the utmost sincerity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 19, 2008 15:51:52 GMT -5
Matt,
I appreciated you PM and sent you a response. Maybe after you read it you can respond back and it may explain some things.
I want to clarify something you wrote from above. I have never referred to myself or even thought I was a prophet. I don't know why you wrote above that I called myself a prophet.
And the videos of yourself preaching to large angry crowds?
Do you preach publicly?
Do you directly confront sin and sinners?
If you do the above two and you live right and pray you should be getting hearers. Especially in an ungodly place like Canada.
Post some video of yourself so I can see what I am supposed to do when I am being thrown questions, accusations, slanders, and hecklers from all sides.
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mattmahar
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`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 19, 2008 16:44:36 GMT -5
I will be getting to the above questions Lord willing later on today.
Brief answers to the above questions brother Micah have been sent to your inbox.
In Christ Matt
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 19, 2008 23:47:30 GMT -5
Don't worry with replying Micah because after our telephone conversation I have made up my mind about you and have nothing else to say that hasn't already been said.
In Christ Matt
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