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Post by messengermicah on Sept 1, 2006 21:31:18 GMT -5
I love that line about you have to get them lost before you can get them found. How true.
It is also so true that most people agree with 90% law and 10% grace in theory, but not in practice. People will defend this theory in words but not in practice.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 23, 2006 22:38:07 GMT -5
What is the SOBE message board?
I really appreciate Ray Comfort, own an evidence Bible, have read HBKS, Revival's Golden Key, used his materials to teach class, etc.
However, I am growing weary of many who seem to think that evangelism started and ends with Ray Comfort and his methods and style.
A lot of these guys could learn a lot from other people who are not directly affiliated with them.
It is good to be around others sometimes who do things differently.
Good post Jesse and Amen!
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 23, 2006 23:31:58 GMT -5
Well, if a person is constantly struggling and sinning, then they have not repented and are not saved.
It is impossible for a person to have repented and keep on sinning at the same time.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 23, 2006 22:43:37 GMT -5
Doc H,
If the person refuses or struggles in sin then that person has not repented and is not saved.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 22, 2006 23:14:57 GMT -5
What I mean is if the person does not make the decision to repent from all sin and submit themselves to Jesus Christ (sanctification), they are not going to be justified.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 22, 2006 22:56:12 GMT -5
I believe repentance is forsaking all sin and commiting ourselves to Jesus Christ for His holy purposes. This is about the same thing as sanctification in one sense. Sanctification in one sense is to consecrate ourselves unto God's holy purposes and for His glory and use.
As we grow in our relationship with Jesus Christ and see Him more clearly, we are able to make further consecration of ourselves to Him because we begin to see Him more clearly. In this sense, sanctification is progressive. Repentance would also be progressive in this sense.
I believe our justification is dependent upon our sanctification. In other words, we are only in a position of being just before God as long as we are consecrated and set apart for His holy purposes.
And such were some of you; but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Santification and then justification. Not we become justified and then sanctified.
I am sure this will probably get me into trouble.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 22, 2006 22:41:30 GMT -5
Yes, that clarification was very helpful. It sounds like this was not an ongoing situation, but rather something that happened a few times.
Not that my opinion is right, but it sounds to me as if you truly were a child of God at that time.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 22, 2006 9:09:35 GMT -5
rebecca,
By the way, I think the way Josh Parsley has handled himself on this board is the way we all should ideally conduct ourselves. I have never seen him attack anyone personally and he is always humble and open to learn.
I can't believe you called him politically correct. When do you see him defending sin or worldliness?
Come on rebecca. You need to go examine your heart.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 22, 2006 9:06:43 GMT -5
rebecca,
You are telling me I "know all this" but I don't know it. I don't read everything on this board, I don't keep score with everybody, and I don't walk around with my feelings on my sleeve.
The way you ramble on about people treating you wrong and being jealous of you, it sounds like you think you deserve a place in Foxes Book of Martyrs.
No, I have not read where RevK talked to you inappropriately. I am not saying he did not, but I have not read it.
You really need to grow up in this area rebecca. You are acting very immaturely by keeping score, and wearing your feelings on your sleeve, boasting about how you are a leader, you sell out to no person, everyone is jealous of you, etc. It is ridiculous.
You need to examine yourself. If others want to do the things you say they are doing, then you confront them on it, and leave it at that.
1 Peter 2:23-Who when He was reviled, reviled not again, when He suffered, He threatened not, but commited Himself to Him that judgeth righteously.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 21, 2006 23:34:31 GMT -5
jackjackson,
I am not trying to give you a hard time or anything, but I believe that during the time you were sinning as a Christian, if you would have died, you would have went to hell. Do you agree with this? It didn't sound like you thought this from your post.
Actually, I would not consider you to have been a Christian during that time in your life by the biblical standards. Do you agree with this or not? I am just curious.
If we are bound to any form of sin and continue to persist in it, no matter how much we study the bible, read Christian books, pray, serve God, or how bad we feel after we sin, we cannot be considered a Christian by biblical standards.
I do not believe in OSAS, by the way. I believe the parable of the sower teaches that people can both lose their salvation, and also that others were never true Christians to begin with.
I have found that many who do not believe in OSAS, have a hard time believing that they themselves would actually have gone to hell if they had died during a time they were persisting in sin, because they believed they were being sincere in their desire to be free.
I do not agree with this. I believe, no matter how much they believe they desire to be free, if they are not free, it is because there has been no true repentance and they will end up in hell.
Maybe you do agree with me on this, you just did not come out and say it in the article.
Good article anyway though.
Looking forward to your response on this.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 23, 2006 22:49:19 GMT -5
Rebecca,
Dan has never been corrected on the board?
Can you read?
Dan has been corrected much on the board, and has often corrected himself and apologized.
The guy has changed a lot of his theology since he has been on this board.
You need to get over it rebecca.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 22, 2006 8:59:20 GMT -5
You need to be a follower. I am a follower. I am following Jesus. I do not want people following me. Paul did say to follow me as I follow Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1), but he did not go around bragging about being a leader. Yet, he was a leader.
How can you say you have no bitterness, then come on here and insult and throw mud around, then say you pray for people. That prayer is not going to be heard, because it does not line up with actions.
Love pays no attention to a suffered wrong.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 21, 2006 23:21:19 GMT -5
Rebecca,
What in the world has happened to you?
You sound like you are full of bitterness and unforgiveness. I almost could not believe you accused someone else on another thread of being jealous of you.
Even if that was true why even mention it?
The only person on here I know of who ever said something about biblethumper keeping the boards interesting was myself. Ever since then, you seem to think everyone on the board is afraid to disagree with biblethumper which is totally ridiculous.
Please do not try to use that as an excuse for your attitude problem. Biblethumper and I had a big disagreement in the Ruben thread, so I don't want to hear you saying nobody will confront biblethumper because he keeps the boards moving. He and I have our disagreements too.
We disagree, but then move on from there. It is nothing personal.
Please examine yourself rebecca (2 Corinthians 13:5).
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 20, 2006 22:26:12 GMT -5
He that commits sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8
Whosoever is born of God sins not. 1 John 5:18
Whosoever is born of God does not sin. 1 John 3:9
That is your new heart.
Righteousness?
If ye know that he is righteous ye know that EVERYONE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BORN OF HIM. 1 John 2:29 (If we are made righteous the proof is that we do righteousness)
Little children, let no man deceive you. He that does righteousness is righteous even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
pacp,
Do you have sin in your life? You seem to be defending a believer's choice to sin.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 20, 2006 21:37:55 GMT -5
Depending on Christ...who is doing the depending? You or Christ? Sounds works based to me.
Paul stated He was holy: Ye are witnesses and GOD ALSO HOW HOLILY AND JUSTLY AND UNBLAMEABLY WE BEHAVED OURSELVES AMONG YOU THAT BELIEVED. 1 Thessalonians 2:10
Was Paul bragging? Was he full of pride?
A person who is sinning is not saved.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 20, 2006 11:42:45 GMT -5
biblethumper,
I guess it boils down to what we mean when we say Pentecostal. If a person speaks in tongues, believes in and operates in the gifts of the Spirit, and lives a life of holiness, I consider them Pentecostal.
I do not consider the "charismaniacs of TBN" to be Pentecostal.
I do not know if Jesse speaks in tongues or not, and it doesn't matter to me anyway. I know Miles has mentioned he does not speak in tongues but does believe in it.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 20, 2006 9:50:32 GMT -5
Doc H,
I do not think Jesse is Pentecostal (maybe I am wrong and should let him answer for himself).
I also think you are confusing what we believe and teach about perfection with what you have heard others teach.
I do not recall participating in a discussion with you on here before about holiness. I am sorry you are tired of this discussion but I would like to dialogue with you on this subject (let's avoid the signs, tongues, healings issue though).
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 20, 2006 0:14:14 GMT -5
pacp did not mean I would literally be struck with blindness nor was he attempting to curse me. There are no hard feelings or problems with him and I.
RevK made a comment earlier about Hannegraf (sp?) talking about people prophesying about something bad coming on another person (Kilpatrick said something to Hannegraff that he later apologized for).
I was thinking about this the other day and started laughing to myself because during the Brownsville revival it was a Pentecostal pronouncing judgment on a cessationalist but this time it was a cessationalist pronouncing judgment on a Pentecostal.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 18, 2006 23:13:24 GMT -5
Yes, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sins, IF we walk in the light as He is in the light. Walking in the light is not walking in darkness or sin.
Romans 3:25 talks about forgiveness for the sins that are past.
Lordship salvation is the only salvation. The savior is the Lord (Phillipians 3:21).
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 18, 2006 14:28:39 GMT -5
Show me a scripture where the blood of Jesus covers all of our present and future sins while we remain in sin. I challenge you.
The blood of Jesus does not cover disobedience. You are deceived.
By telling people they are saved while they remain in disobedience to God you are strengthening the hands of the sinner.
Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad, and strengthened the hands of the wicked that he should not return from his wicked way by promising him life. Ezekiel 13:22.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 18, 2006 12:59:55 GMT -5
According to 1 John 3:4, James 4:17, and Romans 14:23.
Sin is very simply- selfishness.
A decision of the will to gratify self rather than to please God.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 18, 2006 11:40:21 GMT -5
Of course it is maintained by us. Faith is our part. It is a conscious act of the will. "...by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH..."
Jesus taught Lordship salvation. Not every one that saith unto me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21
Phillipians 3:21-The savior is the Lord.
Saviour from sin means we are saved from a life of disobedience and we don't sin anymore. Matthew 1:21
It is a decision of the will to forsake all sin and serve Christ.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldy lusts we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12
The grace of God is not a coverup for sin or disobedience. It is an empowering to live above all sin and live in obedience to Christ.
If one that is truly saved does not stop having faith then they do not go off into sin or disobedience, because faith works by love (Galatians 5:6), and love of God is to keep His commandments (1 John 5:3), purifies the heart (Acts 15:9), overcomes the world (1 John 5:4), and sanctifies us (Acts 26:18).
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 18, 2006 9:20:12 GMT -5
Yes, salvation is by faith. However, it seems to me you believe faith is more mental assent, passive and inactive.
Biblical faith is trust which is accompanied by lifestyle and action.
So what you are saying is faith is not an ongoing thing. It is a one time deal. That is error and is not biblical faith at all.
Biblical faith is an ongoing relationship with the person of Jesus Christ. In our love relationship to Him there is obedience out of love to Him (John 14:15, 1 John 5:3).
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 18, 2006 1:09:48 GMT -5
You maintain salvation by faith. Faith is not mental assent. It is a living relationship with Jesus Christ and it is a trust. Believing means you obey. Faith without works is dead.
You can have a person trying to maintain salvation by works apart from faith. That is works based.
A person must maintain their salvation by faith.
You say it is not a process. I don't know but the bible says, "He that endureth unto the end the same shall be saved" Matthew 24:13. Sounds like it must be maintained to me. Who is the one doing the enduring unto the end? It's not God.
For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end. Hebrews 3:14 (also verse 6).
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 17, 2006 23:46:04 GMT -5
Yes, pacp no one will be saved by the law, but the only evidence that a person is truly saved is that he does keep, and obey God's law.
Please read the above scriptures I posted, because it does not seem like you took the time to look at them.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 17, 2006 23:40:57 GMT -5
Read Romans 3:31 (Faith does not make void God's law), Romans 8:4, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, John 14:15, 1 John 2:3-4.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 17, 2006 23:39:25 GMT -5
If you don't obey God's law you are not saved and do not love God.
The above passage from 1 Corinthians 3 is dealing with doctrine and not immorality. Read through it again carefully.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 17, 2006 23:15:33 GMT -5
All sins are sins of unbelief.
When you sin you are not trusting in Jesus as Savior from sin.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 17, 2006 20:38:29 GMT -5
If we die in sin we go to hell, no matter what we have done in the past. Ezekiel 18
If I am wrong I do not want to take any chances. I hate sin and want to make no provision for it.
We should error on the side of caution and preach in a way to produce the same in others.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 16, 2006 20:50:37 GMT -5
I am not sure if this is right or not but I have been thinking about this for quite some time. I would appreciate some of your thoughts and feedback on this.
First of all let me say I am not one who goes around calling people by titles and I hate it when people are all hung up on titles. Nevertheless, God has given apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers to His church for the perfecting of the saints. I do not think these were ever meant to be "titles", but more like spiritual functions. They definitely wear a mantle or an anointing.
Side note: (There is so much flakey charismaniac things going on that I am hesistant to even mention some of these things because they have been so abused, but bear with me. Hear me out before you turn me off).
Of course there is always some overlap in these, and sometimes people function in several of these offices. Others tend to specialize more strongly in only one.
A true revivalist is a combination between an evangelist and a prophet. Of course he can lean more strongly in one direction than another.
Sometimes I think some of the disagreements some of us have on this board are because some function more as a prophet than an evangelist and others function more as an evangelist than a prophet.
I think most of the people on this board desire to see true revival and God is raising up a generation of revivalists. I don't think we are seeing true revival yet, but it is our calling. Most of the people on here function in a measure of both of these offices.
Some of us however, lean more towards being a prophet and others lean more towards being an evangelist.
A prophet will have a tendency to speak out more strongly against sin, while an evangelist will have a tendency reach out more toward the people (I am speaking in a general sense here not absolute-of course evangelist speak out strongly against sin and prophets reach out towards the people they minister to).
Neither are wrong and both can be taken to extremes and abused.
I think this is sometimes the source of some of the misunderstanding between some on this board and others in various open air "camps".
From the perspective of a casual outside observer who does not know much about the organization, I see GNN as being more with the heart of an evangelist than a prophet.
I think a lot of guys open air who are really more of a prophet type than an evangelist.
Would appreciate your thoughts on this.
I do think we on this board have been making alot of progress on communicating with and understanding each other better.
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