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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Oct 15, 2009 21:12:43 GMT -5
1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin because he is begotten of God.”
“Doeth no sin” is translated from the phrase “Hamartian ou poiei.” It is the present active indicative of “poieo” which literally means, as the NIV has correctly translated (surprisingly); “Does not keep on committing sin.”
Had John intended that one who is born of God could not commit a single act of sin he would have used the aorist tense of the verb instead of the present tense.
Who does not sin → Him who is begotten of God.
Who is begotten of God → He, in whom His seed abides.
The seed: “The word of God...” Luke 8:11
Abides: “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly...” Col 3:16
He that is begotten of God is he that lets the word of Christ dwell in him richly.
Then,
He that let's the word of Christ dwell in him richly cannot “keep on committing sin” because by letting the word of Christ dwell in him richly, he will walk in the light.
If, One keeps on committing sin
Then,
The word of Christ is not dwelling in him richly and he is walking in darkness.
Thus,
He is not, at this time, begotten of God because 1 John 3:9 is a conditional clause which is indicated by the word “because.”
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Oct 8, 2009 17:51:04 GMT -5
I saw this teaching from Dan Corner at eomin.org and I was wondering what everyone here thought of this teaching. 1 John 5:16-17 reads: 16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. The sins onto death and the sins not unto death are not explained in detail here but we do know that both of these exist. Dan Corner says that the death here is a spiritual death and not a physical death. Sin is trangression of the law (1 Jn. 3:4) but isn't anything that doesn't come from faith sin (Rom. 14:23). Paul tells us in Phil. 4:6 to not be anxious about anything so wouldn't doubt be a sin for a Christian? Dan Corner believes that the sins unto spiritual death would be the sins listed by Jesus and Paul in these passages: 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Gal. 5:19-21, Eph. 5:5-6, Rev. 21:8, etc. He believes the sins not unto death would be sins that are never stated anywhere as sending one to hell. Sins such as worry (Phil. 4:6) and unthankfulness (Col. 2:7) would be sins not unto death. On the flip side, usually Eternal Security proponents hold that the sin unto death is a physical death in which God is so angered by unrepentant sin in a Christian's life that he kills that Christian and takes him to heaven. I believe that belief is a license to sin. To think that we can live in unrepentant rebellion to God and to be rewarded by getting taken out of this life and taken to heaven. What are your thoughts? The sins " not" unto death are those that the Christian doesn't realize he committed. These sins are not unto death in this particular Christians mind. However, all sin separates us from God and God is no respecter of persons. I don't believe this passage teaches that there exists a state of blissful ignorance for mentally capable individuals. There are other examples within the scriptures which use this same type of language. John 9:41 Jesus said " If ye were blind, ye should have no sin. But now ye say, We see. Therefore your sin remaineth." Jesus was not teaching that ignorance is bliss. If these men were blind then they would have seen what Christ taught. Hence, the blood of Jesus Christ would have washed away their sins when they obeyed from the heart his form of doctrine.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Sept 26, 2009 6:06:47 GMT -5
Oh....I thought it was from Creation, when the Creator rested on the seventh day of creation!~ No sir, it was a perpetual covenant between the children of Israel and God.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Sept 25, 2009 6:08:28 GMT -5
If God foreknew from all of eternity that you would die tomorrow, how could God save you? I don't quite understand the question. Because if I was saved already, it wouldn't matter, and if I wasn't, then it'd be too late. They don't like answers like this one.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Sept 23, 2009 17:28:00 GMT -5
Why do you assume that they did not keep God's commandments? Noah, for one, did all that the LORD commanded him. Pretty sure Abraham did too. Of course, did you also mention Adam? We know what happened to him. Peace, dmatic They did all that God commanded THEM and NOT all that was commanded of the children of Israel (Deuteronomy 5:3) They did not have to keep the Sabbath because it was not established until AFTER the children of Israel were delivered out of the hands of the Egyptians (Which by the way is the REASON for the seventh-day-weekly Sabbath.)
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Sept 22, 2009 15:55:47 GMT -5
I'll check, but, in the meantime...can you show me where they did not? dmatic The burden of proof is on the affirmative.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Sept 21, 2009 16:38:23 GMT -5
The Torah is for all! Praise God! dmatic The Bible says: "Jehovah made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US, even US, who are all of US here alive this day." Deuteronomy 5:3Show me just one time where Abraham, Noah, or Adam kept the Sabbath.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Sept 18, 2009 8:25:55 GMT -5
I'll look up the reference when I get to my Bible.....but I'm wondering, then, who you think "Gentiles" are? Peace, dmatic There is neither Jew or Greek (gentile) in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28,29
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Sept 14, 2009 17:20:39 GMT -5
logic, you answered the question thusly: Is a benjaminite, then, a Gentile? How about a Danite? Or a Nepthalite? Y'Shua (Jesus) is King of the Jews.....those who follow Him, are by defintion, Jews.....Correct? dmatic No they are Christians. (Isaiah 62:2)
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Aug 20, 2009 10:37:14 GMT -5
A person must turn from their sin to be saved. But if it is a sin for a Gentile to violate the Torah, than a Gentile does need to obey the Torah to be saved! But this is contrary to Acts, Romans, and Galatians! It is not a sin for a Gentile to violate the Torah because a Gentile is not under obligation to the Torah. If eating pork was a sin, or if wearing clothing made of two different materials were a sin, when I was converted under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, why didn't he convict me of these things? He convicted me of all my other sins! Why wouldn't he convict me of violating these commands in the Torah? Some people are convicted by these things. To these things we should not cause our brother to violate his conscience because he that is convicted by these things is weak in the faith. (Teaching the brethren about the truth would not be considered causing him to stumble.) Also --> These men are not convicted by the Holy Spirit. These men are convicted by their own conscience.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Aug 1, 2009 23:06:25 GMT -5
"Who can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7
Jesus said "Son thy sins are forgiven thee." Mark 2:5
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6
Jesus was equal to God the Father.
"... All men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father..." John 5:23
"...My Father worketh hitherto, and I work also" John 5:17
"...As the Father hath life in himself... And hath given him authority to execute judgment also..." John 5:27
Why did God the Father have to give to the son authority?
"...Being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. Being found in the fashion as a man he humbled himself and became obedient unto death even the death of the cross." Philippians 1:6-8
Jesus was equal to God and had glory with the Father in eternity past.
"... O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." John 17:5
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
Jesus is not Jehovah in and of himself. John chapters 14-17 clearly express a plurality of persons consisting of one deity among the name of Jehovah.
There are three which bare record in heaven. 1 John 5:7
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Aug 1, 2009 22:25:02 GMT -5
You can't bring MMI's into the assembling of the church any more than you can incense, dancing, polygamy, animal sacrifices, etc. Sir, the passage specifies the instrument to be used. Had God said "Play a trumpet" you'd insist that you must play a trumpet. However, when God says "Use your voice" you insist that you can use anything. How do you find the liberty to choose an alternate means in a direct commandment of God? Please answer my question. Jonathan, i do not find an "alternate" means, the word "psalms'" allows a harp or other instruments. What is so hard to understand about that? How can you play a harp in your heart? And, actually, here is the definition of "making melody"; G5567 ψάλλω psallō psal'-lo Probably strengthened from ψάω psaō (to rub or touch the surface; compare G5597); to twitch or twang, that is, to play on a stringed instrument (celebrate the divine worship with music and accompanying odes): ψάλλω 1. to pluck off, pull out 2. to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang 1. to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument so that they gently vibrate 2. to play on a stringed instrument, to play, the harp, etc. 3. to sing to the music of the harp 4. in the NT to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song * (William Mounce’s Complete Expository Dictionary): “psallo means to sing” (659). * (New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology): “psallo has the sense to sing hymns of praise” (Bartels 672). * (The New Analytical Greek Lexicon): “in the N.T to sing praises” (Perschbscher 442). * (Vines Expository Dictionary): “in the NT, to sing a hymn, sing praise” (402). * (The Analytical Greek Lexicon): “in the N.T, to sing praises” (Moulton 401). * (The Reader’s Greek New Testament): “psallo: I sing, sing praise” (Goodrich 426). * (A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament): “in the NT, to sing a hymn, sing praises” (Abbot-Smith 487). * (Abridged Theological Dictionary of New Testament Theology): “does not now denote literally playing on a stringed instrument” (Kittel 1226). * (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament): “in the N.T, to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song” (675). Here's what the Greek authorities have to say about this Greek word. What sort of credentials do you have? Are you saying that your voice is not an instrument? Your voice is the only authorized instrument in this passage. We are to sing, not play.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Aug 1, 2009 21:52:24 GMT -5
You can't bring MMI's into the assembling of the church any more than you can incense, dancing, polygamy, animal sacrifices, etc. Sir, the passage specifies the instrument to be used. Had God said "Play a trumpet" you'd insist that you must play a trumpet. However, when God says "Use your voice" you insist that you can use anything. How do you find the liberty to choose an alternate means in a direct commandment of God? Please answer my question. Wow, you mean we cant "dance" before God while praising Him? Then why did God accept David's dancing before him? I believe that WE CAN dance if we so choose to because it is Scripturally supported. Just as playing musical instruments in our worship to God is Scripturally supported. Read the last few Scriptures of Psalms and you will see that God likes all sorts of musical intruments. David played the harp when he sang Psalms to God didn't he? Anchor707 Show me where God has ever approved of Mechanical Musical Instruments. Show me where David's dancing was approved of God.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 31, 2009 16:51:59 GMT -5
AAhh, i see, we can make the melody in our hearts, and then express it with musical instruments and our voices. You can't bring MMI's into the assembling of the church any more than you can incense, dancing, polygamy, animal sacrifices, etc. Sir, the passage specifies the instrument to be used. Had God said "Play a trumpet" you'd insist that you must play a trumpet. However, when God says "Use your voice" you insist that you can use anything. How do you find the liberty to choose an alternate means in a direct commandment of God? Please answer my question.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 31, 2009 5:51:51 GMT -5
The passage authorizes the form of Instrument to be used. Thus Mechanical Musical Instruments are purposely left out and unauthorized. Singing and making melody in your hearts.This is your own definition: To define the term "Mechanical Musical Instruments." --
"Mechancial" in the sense that this has been created by man.
"Musical" in the sense that this thing created by man is used for music, noise, sound, etc.
"Instrument" A tool to be used.
A harp is an instrument made by man, but this passage commands us to use a harp to sing along with. Or are you saying we can't even sing, because this passage says "in your hearts"? Sir, the definition you posted doesn't even agree with you. The definition says "Harp OR OTHER MUSICAL INSTRUMENT". As I said before, the musical instrument used to make melody is the one that God created. The heart. Thus, all other instruments are excluded. The passage says sing AND make melody in your heart.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 30, 2009 17:08:39 GMT -5
Not in the name of the Lord. Yep: Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the LordI can do this with MMIs Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17: And whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father by him.I will use MMIs in deed in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father by him. You cannot speak with an instrument You cannot admonish or build up someone with an instrument. In order to admonish and build up a person you must speak the words of Christ. Sir, you can pretend that you're worshiping God all you want but God has not authorized the use of MMI's and you can't show me where He has. Shame on you because as the Pharisees, you are teaching for doctrines the commandments of men and making your worship toward God in vain.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 30, 2009 16:15:44 GMT -5
If it seems evil unto to serve the pattern of the Lord, choose ye this day whom ye will serve. As for me and my house, I will serve the Lord with MMIs Not in the name of the Lord.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 30, 2009 11:44:28 GMT -5
This boy needs deliverance. If it seems evil unto to serve the pattern of the Lord, choose ye this day whom ye will serve.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 30, 2009 10:17:13 GMT -5
This whole thread is garbage. I will use anything that make a musical sound in singing prase to God. According to you, you can't even sing from a pre-recorded CD as back-up music. Sheesh, some people & their subtle forms of legalism. Sir, does the New Testament utilize the word "pattern"? If it does not, does that by force of circumstance, rule out the idea of a pattern? If it does, then why is it used if there is no pattern? If it does, then why do we have to rebuttal the idea of a pattern? Friend, your attitude toward God's pattern is "garbage."
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 30, 2009 10:16:12 GMT -5
The perscribed form of worship is to admonish or build up one another with songs hymns and spiritual songs --> Singing, making melody in our hearts. All other methods are restricted. It seems that you left out part of Eph. 5:19, it's psalms which means: G5568 ψαλμός psalmos psal-mos' From G5567; a set piece of music, that is, a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp or other instrument; a “psalm”); collectively the book of the Psalms: - psalm. Compare G5603. So, there ya go, at least one example. The passage authorizes the form of Instrument to be used. Thus Mechanical Musical Instruments are purposely left out and unauthorized. Singing and making melody in your hearts.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 30, 2009 6:46:53 GMT -5
I am so confused about this thread. What is so wrong with Mechanical Musical Instruments? Please give me your example of a Mechanical Musical Instrument. Here is a list of MMIs according to the definition of being mechanical: An organ or piano would be an MMI, so would a set of high-hat cymbals, brass instruments (because of the vales, accept for the bugle), guitar (because of the knobs that tighten the strings; or if it is electric, the amplifyer would mostly be the mechanical part), some wind instruments like the saxaphone (because of the vales). Any instrument that has moving parts would be excluded from Church. Sir, there's nothing evil about Mechanical Musical Instruments. They are simply not part of God's prescribed pattern for worship. We as humans have not the authority to change or add too God's prescribed pattern. There are many Old Testament examples which were written for our learning that we could study if you're willing. (Not to mention the New Testaments call for a "pattern".) To define the term "Mechanical Musical Instruments." -- "Mechancial" in the sense that this has been created by man.
"Musical" in the sense that this thing created by man is used for music, noise, sound, etc.
"Instrument" A tool to be used.There is in fact, an instrument prescribed by God for the New Testament church to use. Yet this instrument is neither "mechanical" in nature for it has been created by God. We are to sing and make melody in our hearts. The perscribed form of worship is to admonish or build up one another with songs hymns and spiritual songs --> Singing, making melody in our hearts. All other methods are restricted.Take for example Peter. When he was told to go to Cesarea and preach to a gentile the things concerning the kingdom of God. Did he have the liberty to choose a different town other than Cesarea? Or maybe a different Gentile other than Cornelius? If not, then why do we have the liberty to add too, or change God's command to worship him?Remember: - Remember Abel's sacrifice was greater than Cain's because his was done by Faith. - Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. - Abel knew what God had perscribed and offered what God desired. - Cain was deffinitly zealos about his offering. After all, he became jealous and slew his brother. However, his sacrifice was not according to faith. Thus, God was not pleased.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 22:35:14 GMT -5
Cars --> Matthew 28 "Go ye therefore..." Jesus told us to "Go". Since Christ said Go we have the liberty to chose the means by which we "Go." Had Jesus said "Walk ye therefore...' Then we would have to walk everywhere we went. Lighting, --> We can find approved examples within the scriptures of the apostles and disciples using lighting. We can therefore also use lighting. Computers --> Instruments can be used to spread the gospel. We can find an approved example --> Jesus used visual presentations - Matthew 18. Computers can also be used as entertainment so long as the entertainment is not ungodly. Make a joyful noise unto the Lord; MMI could make a joyfull noise, therefore they are acceptable by the authorization of God. David's psalm's do not authorize MMI's. Not to mention you're returning to the Old Testament to find your New Testament authorization. Do you understand those consequences?
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 22:33:27 GMT -5
"Sir, why do you believe that a direct commandment constitutes as liberty on behalf of the recipient?" Where's the commandment against MMIs You've proved my point. So many denominations today have a lack of respect for the word of God. They say "The Bible doesn't say we can't do it, therefore we can." How rediculous is this? If the Bible contained all of the "Thou Shalt not's" That are in the world then the bible would weigh too much to carry. God prescribed a method of worship and all other method's are banned. Cain thought he could off God what he wanted to offer him too, but it didn't work.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 21:19:28 GMT -5
Cars --> Matthew 28 "Go ye therefore..." Jesus told us to "Go". Since Christ said Go we have the liberty to chose the means by which we "Go." Had Jesus said "Walk ye therefore...' Then we would have to walk everywhere we went. Lighting, --> We can find approved examples within the scriptures of the apostles and disciples using lighting. We can therefore also use lighting. Computers --> Instruments can be used to spread the gospel. We can find an approved example --> Jesus used visual presentations - Matthew 18. Computers can also be used as entertainment so long as the entertainment is not ungodly.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 19:30:42 GMT -5
We need to get back to "What does the Bible say?!"
"For if we sin willfully their remaineth no more sacrifice for our sins." Hebrews 10:26
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 17:44:51 GMT -5
Mechanical Musical Instruments Will you answer my honest question? "Sir, why do you believe that a direct commandment constitutes as liberty on behalf of the recipient?"
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 17:42:45 GMT -5
Mechanical Musical Instrument I would assume. Did Jesus authorize cars, electric lighting, planes, computers, etc. ...? If not, does that then make them tools of Satan? Yes they are authorized.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 14:08:18 GMT -5
Sorry bro ... thats your loss. Yes, I did here some things about that. I never said I agree with them on evry aspect. However I do know some instance where instruments can get in the way of true song worship, thats a problem, but others, where it is not the center of the worshp. I worship at reform church and we have instruements that play on the side of the congregation, but there are still instruments that are played, and sounds great. By what authority have you brought MMI's into your worship services? BTW, why reform the church? Is Christ's church not good enough?
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 13:34:56 GMT -5
I agree with logic on this one. Johnathen I told you to not to talk about Doctrine because your just causing trouble. Go to church and learn and love Christ, but dont teach. Maybe you can serve Christ another way. Your going to incur some guilt on your behalf and God is going frown down on you because your not handeling the word of truth correctly. Your favorite preacher despised MMI's. Martin Luther said that the Organ in the worship service was an instrument of baal. Perhaps you should read what John Calvin wrote on the subject. I meet with the church on every occasion. The church does not use MMI.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on Jul 28, 2009 13:33:09 GMT -5
A.) Christ has all authority in heaven and earth B.) Christ did not authorize the use of Mechanical Musical Instruments in the worship toward God (If so, then where?). Conclusion: Therefore, Mechanical Musical Instruments are brought into the worship services by the authorization of men.If your church chooses to do so, how can one advocate that Christ is the head of that church since he obviously only has some or most but definitely not all authority? Did Christ die for a church to which he is no longer head? I had to laugh when I first read this. I can't believe that people actualy think this kind of stuff. [glow=red,2,300]This is a subtle form of leagalism.[/glow] What is wrong with "Mechanical Musical Instruments in the worship"? Christ also did not authorize the use tennis shoes in the church, folding chairs in the place of pews, mother's nursing rooms for privacy, childeren's church, drinking coffee at bible studies, coffee & doughnuts before the service & pot luck afterward, ...ect... Where does it end? Whatsoever we do in word or deed must be done in the name of Christ. That is, with his approval. Paul told us about eating during worship services "What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God..." As for pews, shoes, and children classrooms these can all be authorized in the scriptures. Sir, why do you believe that a direct commandment constitutes as liberty on behalf of the recipient? BTW perhaps you should study the history of MMI's in the worship services. You'd be surprised.
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