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Post by evanschaible on Aug 16, 2006 18:19:06 GMT -5
Nevermind.... Disregard this post, but still listen to the sermon ;D ;D I think I agree with Paul Washer's Calvinism, at least so far. I havent read anything or heard all of his sermons. What do you guys think. SE week- pt. How can you have assurance? www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12879I agree with this sermon whole heartedly, and he claims to be a Calvinist. He teaches what God revealed to me some time ago, conditional eternal security, Kept by the power of God through faith. |
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 16, 2006 18:30:23 GMT -5
Well, now that I read insead of hear, I am second guessing that. He is still an amazing preacher.
He is definately more conservative in His calvinism then most.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 16, 2006 19:48:14 GMT -5
Nevermind.... Disregard this post, but still listen to the sermon ;D ;D I think I agree with Paul Washer's Calvinism, at least so far. I havent read anything or heard all of his sermons. What do you guys think. SE week- pt. How can you have assurance? www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12879I agree with this sermon whole heartedly, and he claims to be a Calvinist. He teaches what God revealed to me some time ago, conditional eternal security, Kept by the power of God through faith. I don't believe in Calvinism. I have had many very heated arguments with other Christians who are Calvinists. I believe that most of them are saved; however, that they are wrong on some issues. In a round about way we do agree. That a saved person would bear fruit. I don't believe that one can lose their salvation. But then again someone who never bears fruit is probably not saved. We should EXAMINE ourselves to ensure that we are in the faith. With that said I think it's is better left alone for me. But one important thought is to always place total dependence on Christ alone and His finished work. Some appear to look at the law (lordship salvation) or possibly that they are predestined. Quite honestly I find that to be rank heresy. I would rather not argue about this because it can cause divisions among brothers. Thats my take... |
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 16, 2006 21:06:11 GMT -5
I think many Calvinists live better then their theology. Many who are Calvinist in theology are Arminians in their practice. Men like this have been Jonathon Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, and now it looks like Paul Washer.
They still witness to the lost. They still call all men to repent. They still live holy lives. They still prepare themselves for judgment. They don't just sit back in sin and laziness and say "predestination" and "original sin".
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 16, 2006 21:41:02 GMT -5
I think many Calvinists live better then their theology. Many who are Calvinist in theology are Arminians in their practice. I guess I don't understand what you are saying here Jesse. I am not a 5 point Calvinist, probably more of a 3 point if I were to label myself (T.U.P.). I really don't know too many 5 points as good, close friends, but most that I have heard of or have heard speak (sermons, MB, writings, etc.), believe just like Paul Washer does. John Piper, John MacArthur, Paris Reidhead, R.C. Sproul, Paul Washer and I believe even Duncan Campbell are some that I can think of off the top of my head. The hold fast to Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Jeremiah 32:38-41. They may believe in predestination and that only the elect will be saved, but they believe that the saved will act in a radically different way. Maybe I am just reading into things, but it seems in some of your more recent post that you are looking down upon people who have a different theology then yours. I hope I am just reading into things. Just because some people don't believe in sinless perfection, doesn't mean they are theologically inferior to you or inferior to you in practice. Like I said, I hope I am wrong...God Bless. |
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 16, 2006 22:06:12 GMT -5
No I am not looking down upon Calvinists.
In fact, I look up to a lot of Calvinists. Like Whitefield, Spurgeon, and I even enjoy a good Piper sermon now and then.
What I meant is how Calvinists will say, "You can't be perfect. You sin every day in word, thought, and deed."
I think in this regard, many Calvinists like Edwards and others really did live better then their theology.
I'm saying that they lived holy lives. So it's really more of a compliment then any sort of "looking down upon."
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 16, 2006 22:09:24 GMT -5
What I'm trying to say is that I believe that there are Calvinists who live extremely holy lives.
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 16, 2006 22:15:26 GMT -5
Gotcha, I understand what you are saying...however, I believe the True Calvinists' idea of "sinning everyday" and your idea of "sinning everyday" might be different. From what I have read of the men that I have listed, they are speaking of falling short of Jesus (Romans 3:23). They are speaking of missing the mark. I don't believe these men are speaking of any of the sins listed in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, etc. They are talking about the fact that they understand that they have "not arrived yet." They don't have the fullness of the fruit of the Spirit. They don't always do all the good that they should (James 4:17). When they get before the Lord in prayer, they still realize what a miserable wretch they are compared to God. This is the same thing I here from every Godly man I have heard speak or who's book I have read...no matter if they are "Calvinist" or "Arminian/Wesleyan." I am not sure, but I believe you would agree with these men. I agree with these men as well...not because they were "great men of God", but because it is what I find and read in Scripture. Reading their works and listening to their sermons only confirmed it and encouraged me that I was reading Scripture rightly. Anyway, I KNOW there are many people out there...Calvinists AND Arminians who sin it up. Calvinists use their theology as an excuse, while Arminians just say they will repent tomorrow (sounds more like Catholic theology to me). Either way, I don't think Calvinists should be singled out. In my experience, there are just as many Arminians who live the same way. I think we can both agree that whatever they label themself with, they ARE NOT SAVED and THEY ARE NOT FOLLOWING THEIR THEOLOGY.
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 17, 2006 16:44:39 GMT -5
I am not sure Paris Reidhead was a calvinist. He preached with the circuit inside the Alliance Bible conferences, and Arminian denomination.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 17, 2006 17:06:29 GMT -5
My understanding is the Paris Reidhead was very much an Arminian.
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 17, 2006 17:13:33 GMT -5
That is what I thought. Thanks for that confirmation brother.
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 17, 2006 19:37:22 GMT -5
I could be wrong about Paris, but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand?
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 17, 2006 20:33:39 GMT -5
What do you mean "what does that have to do with the discussion?" Anybody that "holy" just couldn't have been a Calvinist. Just kidding.
I think I agree with you about those godly Calvinists not thinking about sin in the same way we are talking about it.
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 20, 2006 10:13:52 GMT -5
Sorry Kerrigan, you said he was a calvinist in one of your posts. Sorry about that. That just threw a blinder upon Marjorie Reidhead because she has been sending me Finney booklets and is very arminian. Sorry about that.
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Post by jackjackson on Aug 21, 2006 13:57:53 GMT -5
They key here is that each person knows if they are giving their reasonable service to God. Each person knows if they are living for God or self. As Christians it should grieve us if we know we are deliberately living for self. The conscience of a true believer following Jesus should send alarm when we are about to sin, or at least let us know as soon as we have. I believe that is the time we decide to heed the Spirit and repent or not. That is wear the rubber meets the road so to speak.
I agree with Rev K wholeheartedly that there is much hypocricy on both sides of this issue. It seems both preach a form of holiness, only one groups teaching has bigger teeth to offer those who refuse to live right before an awesome an Holy God. One offers a spanking, and the other eternal banishment. Both are bad, but one is critical and terminal.
I found myself switching from a Calvinistic preach to Arminian if for no other reason to err on the side of caution. I hope we can't loose our salvation, but I don't want to preach it as fact, especially in the light of so many scritures that certainly appear to be warnings against falling away. If they truly come by faith, and then hold fast to that and work hard by the Spirit to obey the Spirit, it can only be beneficial. Working, in other words, according to perserverance of the saints, wouldn't negate their salvation. But, if living willfully in sins again is worse than their first condition (2 Peter 2); or if there really does remain no longer a sacrifice for sin when I do that despite the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:23-31); or if keeping your robes white keeps you name from being blotted out of the book of life; or if allowing one's self to become lukewarm can get one spit out of the mouth of the Lord, I certainly don't want to live those ways, nor feel comfortable teaching anyone else to ignore those verses.
I take Ezk 3, 18, and 33 very seriously and do not any blood on my hands; therefore, I now warn both the wicked to turn from their wicked ways (repent and turn to Jesus) and also warn the righteous who have turned from their righteous (now serving themselves again, after departing from Jesus as their Lord) to return to their righteousness (Jesus as Lord of their lives) before their righteousness is remembered NO MORE! That scares me! It causes me fear for them and the their Judgment Day, and mine. I find the Lord very just and righteous to not forgive me my sins, if I don't confess them and walk in His light (1 John 1:7 and 9). To comply with His requests can be a requirement without being meritorious of His grace. That seems very hard for some to accept. It is a fine line to walk. Too far one way, you start to think your deserve heaven (which is wrong), to far the other way and you demonstrate Jesus is not your Lord. This is why the road that leads to life is narrow and few there be that find it. This is why Peter can say that the righteous shall scarely be saved (1 Peter 4:18-19) as they commit themselves to Him in well doing and we can know the Lord is against them that do evil (1 Peter 2:12). Paul too says we must remain in His goodness. Though some would call these "works" God doesn't see them as works, only requirements.
Jack Jackson
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Post by SlowBro on Sept 1, 2006 16:42:52 GMT -5
I think many Calvinists live better then their theology. Many who are Calvinist in theology are Arminians in their practice. Men like this have been Jonathon Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, and now it looks like Paul Washer. They still witness to the lost. They still call all men to repent. They still live holy lives. They still prepare themselves for judgment. They don't just sit back in sin and laziness and say "predestination" and "original sin". Dude I am laughing my bottom off... do you honestly believe the Arminian has "cornered the market" on repentance? ;D Calling someone to repent doesn't make one Calvinist or Arminian -- it makes them Biblical! |
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Sept 1, 2006 17:22:16 GMT -5
What is the difference between telling a person to:
"Turn from your sin"
and
"Stop your sinning"
???
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Post by SlowBro on Sept 1, 2006 19:26:05 GMT -5
What is the difference between telling a person to: "Turn from your sin" and "Stop your sinning" ??? I am not immediately sure. They both look similar. What are you getting at? |
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Post by Paul Mcgrade on Sept 1, 2006 19:41:43 GMT -5
No I am not looking down upon Calvinists. In fact, I look up to a lot of Calvinists. Like Whitefield, Spurgeon, and I even enjoy a good Piper sermon now and then. What I meant is how Calvinists will say, "You can't be perfect. You sin every day in word, thought, and deed." I think in this regard, many Calvinists like Edwards and others really did live better then their theology. I'm saying that they lived holy lives. So it's really more of a compliment then any sort of "looking down upon." Im probably a bit late, but I think in regards to Jesse's post that I quoted, a good quote from Leonard Ravenhill would do some good. He said, "The miserable preachers say your gonna sin as long as you live..... Again, did Jesus say to a wicked woman go and sin less? He said no, go and sin no more. And she didn't have the cross and she didnt have the book [the bible] and she didn't have the holy ghost! Christianity is not a sinning religion its a victorious religion. Jesus did not come into the world to make bad men good, merely, He came to make dead men live!" - Leonard Ravenhill (Your Reasonable Service) |
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Sept 1, 2006 21:45:07 GMT -5
Ravenhill always had good things to say!! Many people praise him now that he's dead, and say they believe what he preached, but very few live what he preached, or even believed it was possible! Though they will say "amen" to some of his sermons.
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Post by Paul Mcgrade on Sept 1, 2006 22:56:01 GMT -5
We'll heres a treat, after making my post I thought I should make a compilation for you all. I named it: Ravenhill - The Crucified Life Here it is: www.paulmcgrade.com/RavenhillTCL.mp3Paul M. |
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Post by Paul Mcgrade on Sept 1, 2006 23:05:40 GMT -5
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Post by evanschaible on Sept 12, 2006 18:47:03 GMT -5
I say "stop sinning" now instead of turn from sin. I have found that most people have the understanding of greiving over sin and what not, but hardly anyone ever equates repentance with a thorough 180 degree turn away from sin and towards God.
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Post by biblethumper on Sept 12, 2006 20:25:40 GMT -5
I say "stop sinning" now instead of turn from sin. I have found that most people have the understanding of greiving over sin and what not, but hardly anyone ever equates repentance with a thorough 180 degree turn away from sin and towards God. Good idea! I'm gonna use that! "Stop Sinning!". I like that. I'll call it the "Jesse/Evan Message" For real... i love it! |
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Post by biblethumper on Sept 12, 2006 21:55:56 GMT -5
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Post by tbxi on Sept 16, 2006 23:10:53 GMT -5
Hi everybody, I am new here.
I've been lurking around these forums for a little bit - I've also known of OAO for some time. Speaking of which, I am so glad there are people who are actively spreading the gospel in such a way. As a new Christian, I probably wouldn't have known anything about it, not too long ago.
On the subject of this thread - I am a Calvinist. And I love Paul Washer's preaching. I heard that sermon, and the one I think preceded it, a few weeks ago for the first time. Great stuff.
In Christ,
Tyler
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Post by josh on Sept 25, 2006 23:28:43 GMT -5
Calling someone to repent doesn't make one Calvinist or Arminian -- it makes them Biblical! AMEN! |
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Post by josh on Sept 25, 2006 23:29:34 GMT -5
What is the difference between telling a person to: "Turn from your sin" and "Stop your sinning" ??? I actually tell them to 1) Repent - Turn from sin, and 2) Stop sinning. So I use both of those statements. |
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Post by victorialewis on Oct 3, 2006 9:39:25 GMT -5
Sherm ordered some tracts from Tommy Bell's ministry (CustomTractSource.com ) for our church. When we received the order, they included a CD by Paul Washer. It's called simply "Shocking Youth Message". He gave this message to 5,000 people at some sort of a youth conference. Very direct, biblical and powerful. I've been hearing his name mentioned lately, and was curious, so it's timely that I was able to listen to this message. It is pretty much on target with what OAO preaches: repentance, holiness, etc.
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