|
Post by logic on Aug 26, 2009 13:23:02 GMT -5
The terror of this theology is that it totally condemns mankind, giving us no viable excuse for our own self inflicted condition.
One terrible consequence of Pelagianism is that mankind is totally responsible for their sin with no one to blame; we can not even blame Adam for our nature.
Another terrible consequence of Pelagianism is that Jesus proved being sinless for one’s entire life is possible; making it so we have proof that we could do the same, but only choose not to. With Jesus proving sinlessness to be possible for all mankind, it tells us that we always willfully, intentionally, volitionally disobey God’s command which is totally possible for us to perform; to put it in its most basic form “do not sin”.
Some figure that since Pelagianism is true, it could leave man with no need of Christ, this would be a true terrible consequence of Pelagianism if were true. However, it is totally false, because a man who remains sinless his entire life must acknowledge Christ as lord, or he has sinned not doing so, which would make sinlessness impossible. All mankind must acknowledge Jesus to be Lord even if one happens to never sin his entire life. A sinless man would always need Christ as Lord, but not Savior. People do not want to think that Christ as not being one’s Savior would glorify God in the greatest way. None the less, it is true; a sinless man has glorified God his entire life, while a man who comes to Christ later on in his sinful life is less glorifying to God. What do you think? A man who never spit in your face or a man who has but says that he is sorry: which is more greater to you?
|
|
|
Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 26, 2009 17:28:57 GMT -5
Yes, and that would lead to real conviction, and that is just terribe! Men might start thinking that they are actually criminals who deserve punishment, instead of victims with an excuse, and then start thinking that they really need God's grace and mercy!
Pelagianism teaches that mankind is so evil, that they do not need to inherit sin to be evil, they choose to be of their own free will.
Imagine what would happen if people took full responsibility for their actions? But as long as original sin replaces free will, that terrible consequence will not happen.
|
|
|
Post by logic on Aug 27, 2009 13:18:12 GMT -5
Pelagianism teaches that mankind is so evil, that they do not need to inherit sin to be evil, they choose to be of their own free will. Does it teach how we become evil? I always figure that we choose to become evil through a series of choices to do wrong. One wrong choice does not make you evil, but the more you choose to do wrong, the more you corrupt your mind to think that way. As a man thinks in his heart, so he is... (Proverbs 23:7) Question concerning Pelagius: According to Wikipedia, Pelagius taught that moral perfection was attainable in this life without the assistance of divine grace through human free will. What is this "divine grace"? What does Pelagius mean in this statement? Some might confuse this to mean, "moral perfection was attainable in this life without the assistance of the Holy Spirit and merely through human free will. Also, according to Wikipedia, Pelagius taught that the human will, tempered in good deeds and rigorous asceticism, was sufficient to live a sinless life. Why did he not include that we can only live a sinless life by the Holy Spirit? Knowing that through the Holy Spirit is the way that Christ lives in us and through us (Gal 2:20, John 14:19-20; 17:21; 2Corinth 4:10-11; 13:3-5, Eph 3:17, Col 1:27, 1Thes 5:10, 1Peter 4:2, Rev 3:20) Furthermore, one Must acknowledge Jesus as Lord in order to live a sinless life Also, according to Wikipedia, Pelagius taught Christ’s good example offered humanity a path to salvation, through sacrifice and through instruction of the will. Does He mean Christ being "solely" A good example for the path to salvation? Isn't that Christ is the only example, not just a "good one"? Or am I being over scrupulous in semantics? Basically, does Wikipedia have credible information about Pelagius? Another question: Why did Pelagianism, since it is SO TRUE, cease to exist after the 6th century after the death of Julian of Eclanum in 455? What I think it means is that Pelagianism cease to exist as the one true & main theology of the Church: Why? Wouldn't you think that the truth would prevail?
|
|
|
Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 28, 2009 2:08:04 GMT -5
Pelagius taught that to live a holy life we need the grace of God, specifically:
1. The grace of creation, when God gave us a free will 2. The grace of revelation: the law, a conscience, the Holy Spirit 3. The grace of redemption: forgiveness through the atonement of Christ
Those who say that Pelagius didn't teach grace simply do not know what Pelagius taught.
Pelagius did not teach that we are saved by following the example of Christ. Pelagius taught that we are justified "by faith alone"according to his commentary on Romans. But Jesus Christ is our example to follow.
And the truths of Pelagianism have not died. The truths of Pelagianism existed before Pelagius and have survived today. Anyone who teaches free will is a Pelagian. Anyone who denies original sin and says sin is a free will choice is a Pelagian. Anyone who says perfection is attainable is a Pelagian. These were the Pelagian "heresies".
|
|
|
Post by logic on Aug 28, 2009 10:31:23 GMT -5
Pelagius taught that we are justified "by faith alone"according to his commentary on Romans. Is the commentary on Romans this one: The Fall of Mankind Commentary (NOT Augustinian!) Or where may I find it in English? P.S. I am a Pelagian!!! (I just want to know more about him. I have few of his writings, but not his commentary on Romans: I want it!!!
|
|
|
Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 30, 2009 12:01:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by logic on Sept 3, 2009 10:38:58 GMT -5
Thanks for letting me know this is out there. I just Got it and I like how it reviels who Pelagiuss is. You can get to know some one by reading what they think about the Scriptures. Right now, I'm an Romans 3. That might be a later date for now. That would be the greatest!!! I can't wait to talk to him in heaven. Poor guy was/is so abused. One can clearly see in his writings his love & zeal for Jesus/God.
|
|
|
Post by benjoseph on Sept 20, 2009 20:54:51 GMT -5
You guys think you are so smart with your "Finney said this" and "Pelagius said that". I don't care how they interpreted the Bible. If I want proof of our Sinful Nature, all I have to do is look in the mirror! Why do you think they call it an Adam's apple?! Instead of trying to hide the truth with my beard, maybe I should emphasize it like REAL priests do. They are not ashamed of the truth!
|
|
|
Post by trusty on Sept 24, 2009 23:41:52 GMT -5
You guys think you are so smart with your "Finney said this" and "Pelagius said that". I don't care how they interpreted the Bible. If I want proof of our Sinful Nature, all I have to do is look in the mirror! Why do you think they call it an Adam's apple?! Instead of trying to hide the truth with my beard, maybe I should emphasize it like REAL priests do. They are not ashamed of the truth! Please tell me this was brilliant sarcasm and not a massive display of utter nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by logic on Sept 25, 2009 10:36:59 GMT -5
Please tell me this was brilliant sarcasm and not a massive display of utter nonsense. Ben is brilliant, He's got a great mind for logic and the like. He is being funny. I had to double take on this also
|
|
|
Post by trusty on Sept 25, 2009 15:23:22 GMT -5
Please tell me this was brilliant sarcasm and not a massive display of utter nonsense. Ben is brilliant, He's got a great mind for logic and the like. He is being funny. I had to double take on this also In that case, it is brilliant and funny as all get out.
|
|
|
Post by Josh Parsley on Sept 25, 2009 18:06:14 GMT -5
hahahahhahah I laughed more because you guys questioned his seriousness than when I first seen it. HAHHAHA!
But on this board... well... you have to ask sometimes. We get some characters on here from time to time..
|
|