Post by Jesse Morrell on Nov 3, 2006 20:16:39 GMT -5
Ramirez: Understanding instead of judging
Three interviews with religious people: a minister, a Muslim and a student
Ricardo Ramirez
Religious preachers visited our campus last week, and it made me happy. I was happy because I saw fellow Texas Tech students thinking and arguing for their beliefs. They also made me want to better inform myself about other religions. These visitors think, along with many of you, I am going to hell. They say this to everyone who does not accept Jesus the way they do. Yet, upon discussing with them, it becomes clear that the root of their belief stems from a very logical and understandable fear - that of going to hell.
In my personal opinion, while they may mean well through their preaching, they base their reasoning on misinterpretations of the Bible. Sometimes they do this subconsciously, yet stubbornly, to conform to their preconceived values.
In consequence, when these preachers actively seek out people to convert, they judge and segregate people of different religious beliefs, even within Christianity. Some of their ideas could potentially lead to peace through morality. But their focus on who goes to hell and who does not creates a much bigger problem that outweighs their contributions to humanity. They support the division of humanity on a local and global level.
For example, the Baptist minister I interviewed emphasized that his next-door neighbors are not his brothers; they are his neighbors. But his neighbors from across the street are his brothers because they share similar religious beliefs. Whereas he assured me he loves them both the same, I insist that he is setting himself up to treat them differently. He risks seeing them first as people he needs to convert before seeing them as his neighbors. In this way, his view of Christianity outweighs his love for his neighbor.
The problem I see is the preachers' definition of love for their neighbor is centered around an overemphasis on the Bible: they only show love of others through preaching, therefore, serving their own interest. Preaching makes them think they have a better standing with God, giving them a better chance to reach heaven. They also are rewarded within their social circles.
They separate themselves from "the others," showing they do not respect the possibility of there being truth to their beliefs. Their acceptance of others depends on their acceptance of the Bible in their terms (see the interview with Baptist minister). I can only think they do not worry about the others because they will not have to deal with them in heaven.
When asked why they do not love the others, they cling to a circular, self-righteous rhetoric supported by their views of the Bible, making them feel better and safer.
Perhaps I would not pay as much attention to these visitors' preaching if I did not see a threat to other people and to humanity.
The Christians who motivated me to write this column - who are not to be confused with other Christians with more peaceful approaches to Christianity - approached me and initiated efforts to convert me. As they dedicate themselves to this, they hold a significant amount of power; they come in contact with many people every week.
I feel that if I had accepted what they said, I would have become hateful toward other religions and prejudiced against non-believers. There were also some statements about Islam which, based on the little information I had at the moment, oversimplified that religion based on common misconceptions.
The problem: these Christians in leadership positions pass for knowledgeable figures of authority, allowing them to spread misinformation.
The solution, as always, is communication.
I held conversations with three different people: a Baptist minister who I met when he approached me at a coffee shop, a student whose opinion I sought in order to compare points of views and the president of the Islamic Center of the South Plains.
INTERVIEW WITH A BAPTIST MINISTER: Hugh Elliott, Iglesia Bautista de la Comunidad
HE: Hell is the destiny of those who do not accept Christ. I don't judge, I tell people about Jesus.
RR: What about people that do not recognize Jesus but still live a moral life?
HE: Hell is going to be formed of good boys and good girls. What you need is Jesus Christ. The only work you can do is accept Jesus.
RR: But God gave us different packages or conditions. Let's take Muslims, for example. The majority of them lead a very moral life, and a lot of them are led to believe in it because they are born in the countries they are born, just like it is easier for Americans to become Christian because it is the predominant religion.
HE: God is supreme ? there are a lot of details. Let me tackle the Muslims. Their Quran says they are supposed to kill Christians and Jews.
RR: You say non-believers will be judged. I think because someone like you takes the word of Jesus to different people around the world you are not being fair. You just said that neither of us is an expert on Islam. Yet you preach to a lot of vulnerable Christian minds that could take your point of view a bit further upon hearing what a minister has to say about Islam. I think some Christians risk becoming acidic towards Muslims upon hearing assertions like yours. I think that could backfire; I think that's not the way Jesus would have intended it to be.
HE: The Scripture declares that hell is going to be their home.
RR: Wouldn't that contradict when Jesus told us to love our brothers as you would love yourself?
HE: Well your brother is another Christian.
RR: So Muslims are not your brothers?
HE: No. They are human beings, but they are not my brothers. I want them saved, but they are not my brothers. Brothers are other Christians. I wouldn't preach if I didn't want to save lost people. You're going to get me in trouble.
RR: Will we find peace through preaching Christianity the way we are doing, versus accepting other religions as having the right to their own "heaven," so to speak?
HE: No, there will not be peace. There will be - I don't know if we want to go that deep today or not. Christ is coming back. That's the reason for all the turmoil in the Middle East. The Muslims do not even know this, but they are working for Satan to stop Jesus from coming back.
[If you were in God's position], how do you determine whether someone is better than someone else?
RR: You don't.
HE: You can't determine who is good enough or bad enough. That's a bad system; that is a no better system than a system in which you can buy your way with money.
RR: But why would I want to determine that?
HE: To determine who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.
RR: I think I would love everything I made.
HE: He does. But there's wrath ? it is my job to keep preaching. Christianity is not a religion of the wise folks. Christianity confounds the wise; it says it in the Bible. You don't have to be wise.
RR: I agree.
INTERVIEW WITH A MUSLIM: Cherif Amor, president of the Islamic Center of the South Plains.
RR: How much of the Quran should be taken literally?
CA: Within Islam, some are reading the Quran in a very literal manner, while others extrapolate from the text and approach it with a more open-minded, scientific, intellectual approach.
RR: How does Islam regard itself within a constantly changing world, in which peace is often threatened?
CA: One of the major principles in Islam says that there is no compulsion (obligation) in religion. If you force people into religion, they become hypocrites. There is no compulsion. The prophet himself lived with Jewish neighbors. He did not force them to become Muslim.
My daughter does not like to use the veil. My son does not like to pray as I do. Can I make them do these things by force? No. It is not permissible to enforce religious matters. In Islam, there is no compulsion. People are free to live together, whether believers or non-believers.
RR: Is there any kind of judgment assigned by Islam to non-believers? Christianity has hell; does Islam have anything like that?
CA: In Islam, to judge people is blasphemy. In judging people, you are putting yourself at the level of supremacy of the Creator. No one can judge.
RR: Last week, an Evangelical preacher visiting our campus said that Islam calls for violence when calling for fighting in Allah's way, and because of this, Islam is a violent religion. What are readers to make of these messages in the Quran?
CA: The understanding of a religious scripture is not an issue of just anyone taking the book and starting to read it. You cannot understand it. There are different interpretations of the religious texts ? The text allows for defense and not for aggression. Now, the text is not to be taken out of context and used to say that the religious scriptures of the Quran incites people to kill.
RR: If I do not convert, what would happen to me?
CA: The creator knows; I do not know. Perhaps the Creator will bless you and send you to paradise because of your good deeds.
Amor encouraged anyone who wants to have a dialogue to come by the mosque. Amor will be offering lectures in the Methodist Church on 15th Street and University Avenue on Nov. 12, and in the First Baptist Church on Broadway Avenue in December.
INTERVIEW WITH A TECH STUDENT: Marcia Crabtree, who answered my call when I needed a student's perspective. She stresses that she is not any kind of a leader and she does not claim that she is right in practicing religion the way she does.
RR: Why service? How does that bring you closer to God?
MC: I see Jesus as a person of complete servitude. It is his service that I want to imitate.
RR: What about someone that does not consider God to be his or her father but lives that kind of life, caring about others?
MC: From my perspective, I feel that people who act that way do so because they have the image of God. It is present in all people. It does not matter what religious affiliation you have, or even if you have one.
RR: What about people of other religions? Should they be condemned for not praising Jesus?
MC: I think our religions are a lot closer than we may realize. I have a certain view of Jesus, and people who practice other religions have not been shown his best side. He has been misrepresented a lot.
RR: In the meantime, how should we relate to other religions and people of other beliefs?
MC: We should learn to love other people and interact with them. I can represent what I believe to the best of my ability. A lot of what I believe is to love people, and I think I can learn a lot from other people and other cultures. Just because I am a Christian does not mean I have to stop learning from other religions.
I think I am contradicting myself in isolating the opinion of those who judge. In a way, I am judging their opinion, instead of simply coexisting with it. I understand that is a flaw in my argument, and I welcome any criticism. This is the only way I could distinguish the concept of love from what the visitors to our campus did last week. I thank you for reading, and I encourage you to respond with your opinion.
Three interviews with religious people: a minister, a Muslim and a student
Ricardo Ramirez
Religious preachers visited our campus last week, and it made me happy. I was happy because I saw fellow Texas Tech students thinking and arguing for their beliefs. They also made me want to better inform myself about other religions. These visitors think, along with many of you, I am going to hell. They say this to everyone who does not accept Jesus the way they do. Yet, upon discussing with them, it becomes clear that the root of their belief stems from a very logical and understandable fear - that of going to hell.
In my personal opinion, while they may mean well through their preaching, they base their reasoning on misinterpretations of the Bible. Sometimes they do this subconsciously, yet stubbornly, to conform to their preconceived values.
In consequence, when these preachers actively seek out people to convert, they judge and segregate people of different religious beliefs, even within Christianity. Some of their ideas could potentially lead to peace through morality. But their focus on who goes to hell and who does not creates a much bigger problem that outweighs their contributions to humanity. They support the division of humanity on a local and global level.
For example, the Baptist minister I interviewed emphasized that his next-door neighbors are not his brothers; they are his neighbors. But his neighbors from across the street are his brothers because they share similar religious beliefs. Whereas he assured me he loves them both the same, I insist that he is setting himself up to treat them differently. He risks seeing them first as people he needs to convert before seeing them as his neighbors. In this way, his view of Christianity outweighs his love for his neighbor.
The problem I see is the preachers' definition of love for their neighbor is centered around an overemphasis on the Bible: they only show love of others through preaching, therefore, serving their own interest. Preaching makes them think they have a better standing with God, giving them a better chance to reach heaven. They also are rewarded within their social circles.
They separate themselves from "the others," showing they do not respect the possibility of there being truth to their beliefs. Their acceptance of others depends on their acceptance of the Bible in their terms (see the interview with Baptist minister). I can only think they do not worry about the others because they will not have to deal with them in heaven.
When asked why they do not love the others, they cling to a circular, self-righteous rhetoric supported by their views of the Bible, making them feel better and safer.
Perhaps I would not pay as much attention to these visitors' preaching if I did not see a threat to other people and to humanity.
The Christians who motivated me to write this column - who are not to be confused with other Christians with more peaceful approaches to Christianity - approached me and initiated efforts to convert me. As they dedicate themselves to this, they hold a significant amount of power; they come in contact with many people every week.
I feel that if I had accepted what they said, I would have become hateful toward other religions and prejudiced against non-believers. There were also some statements about Islam which, based on the little information I had at the moment, oversimplified that religion based on common misconceptions.
The problem: these Christians in leadership positions pass for knowledgeable figures of authority, allowing them to spread misinformation.
The solution, as always, is communication.
I held conversations with three different people: a Baptist minister who I met when he approached me at a coffee shop, a student whose opinion I sought in order to compare points of views and the president of the Islamic Center of the South Plains.
INTERVIEW WITH A BAPTIST MINISTER: Hugh Elliott, Iglesia Bautista de la Comunidad
HE: Hell is the destiny of those who do not accept Christ. I don't judge, I tell people about Jesus.
RR: What about people that do not recognize Jesus but still live a moral life?
HE: Hell is going to be formed of good boys and good girls. What you need is Jesus Christ. The only work you can do is accept Jesus.
RR: But God gave us different packages or conditions. Let's take Muslims, for example. The majority of them lead a very moral life, and a lot of them are led to believe in it because they are born in the countries they are born, just like it is easier for Americans to become Christian because it is the predominant religion.
HE: God is supreme ? there are a lot of details. Let me tackle the Muslims. Their Quran says they are supposed to kill Christians and Jews.
RR: You say non-believers will be judged. I think because someone like you takes the word of Jesus to different people around the world you are not being fair. You just said that neither of us is an expert on Islam. Yet you preach to a lot of vulnerable Christian minds that could take your point of view a bit further upon hearing what a minister has to say about Islam. I think some Christians risk becoming acidic towards Muslims upon hearing assertions like yours. I think that could backfire; I think that's not the way Jesus would have intended it to be.
HE: The Scripture declares that hell is going to be their home.
RR: Wouldn't that contradict when Jesus told us to love our brothers as you would love yourself?
HE: Well your brother is another Christian.
RR: So Muslims are not your brothers?
HE: No. They are human beings, but they are not my brothers. I want them saved, but they are not my brothers. Brothers are other Christians. I wouldn't preach if I didn't want to save lost people. You're going to get me in trouble.
RR: Will we find peace through preaching Christianity the way we are doing, versus accepting other religions as having the right to their own "heaven," so to speak?
HE: No, there will not be peace. There will be - I don't know if we want to go that deep today or not. Christ is coming back. That's the reason for all the turmoil in the Middle East. The Muslims do not even know this, but they are working for Satan to stop Jesus from coming back.
[If you were in God's position], how do you determine whether someone is better than someone else?
RR: You don't.
HE: You can't determine who is good enough or bad enough. That's a bad system; that is a no better system than a system in which you can buy your way with money.
RR: But why would I want to determine that?
HE: To determine who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.
RR: I think I would love everything I made.
HE: He does. But there's wrath ? it is my job to keep preaching. Christianity is not a religion of the wise folks. Christianity confounds the wise; it says it in the Bible. You don't have to be wise.
RR: I agree.
INTERVIEW WITH A MUSLIM: Cherif Amor, president of the Islamic Center of the South Plains.
RR: How much of the Quran should be taken literally?
CA: Within Islam, some are reading the Quran in a very literal manner, while others extrapolate from the text and approach it with a more open-minded, scientific, intellectual approach.
RR: How does Islam regard itself within a constantly changing world, in which peace is often threatened?
CA: One of the major principles in Islam says that there is no compulsion (obligation) in religion. If you force people into religion, they become hypocrites. There is no compulsion. The prophet himself lived with Jewish neighbors. He did not force them to become Muslim.
My daughter does not like to use the veil. My son does not like to pray as I do. Can I make them do these things by force? No. It is not permissible to enforce religious matters. In Islam, there is no compulsion. People are free to live together, whether believers or non-believers.
RR: Is there any kind of judgment assigned by Islam to non-believers? Christianity has hell; does Islam have anything like that?
CA: In Islam, to judge people is blasphemy. In judging people, you are putting yourself at the level of supremacy of the Creator. No one can judge.
RR: Last week, an Evangelical preacher visiting our campus said that Islam calls for violence when calling for fighting in Allah's way, and because of this, Islam is a violent religion. What are readers to make of these messages in the Quran?
CA: The understanding of a religious scripture is not an issue of just anyone taking the book and starting to read it. You cannot understand it. There are different interpretations of the religious texts ? The text allows for defense and not for aggression. Now, the text is not to be taken out of context and used to say that the religious scriptures of the Quran incites people to kill.
RR: If I do not convert, what would happen to me?
CA: The creator knows; I do not know. Perhaps the Creator will bless you and send you to paradise because of your good deeds.
Amor encouraged anyone who wants to have a dialogue to come by the mosque. Amor will be offering lectures in the Methodist Church on 15th Street and University Avenue on Nov. 12, and in the First Baptist Church on Broadway Avenue in December.
INTERVIEW WITH A TECH STUDENT: Marcia Crabtree, who answered my call when I needed a student's perspective. She stresses that she is not any kind of a leader and she does not claim that she is right in practicing religion the way she does.
RR: Why service? How does that bring you closer to God?
MC: I see Jesus as a person of complete servitude. It is his service that I want to imitate.
RR: What about someone that does not consider God to be his or her father but lives that kind of life, caring about others?
MC: From my perspective, I feel that people who act that way do so because they have the image of God. It is present in all people. It does not matter what religious affiliation you have, or even if you have one.
RR: What about people of other religions? Should they be condemned for not praising Jesus?
MC: I think our religions are a lot closer than we may realize. I have a certain view of Jesus, and people who practice other religions have not been shown his best side. He has been misrepresented a lot.
RR: In the meantime, how should we relate to other religions and people of other beliefs?
MC: We should learn to love other people and interact with them. I can represent what I believe to the best of my ability. A lot of what I believe is to love people, and I think I can learn a lot from other people and other cultures. Just because I am a Christian does not mean I have to stop learning from other religions.
I think I am contradicting myself in isolating the opinion of those who judge. In a way, I am judging their opinion, instead of simply coexisting with it. I understand that is a flaw in my argument, and I welcome any criticism. This is the only way I could distinguish the concept of love from what the visitors to our campus did last week. I thank you for reading, and I encourage you to respond with your opinion.