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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 5, 2006 18:54:10 GMT -5
We were preaching today on the College of Charleston, South Carolina. It seems like a rather easy campus to get a crowd. Even though we arrived late in the afternoon, Jeffrey just started talking on different world-views and pulled in a nice little crowd. We will be there all week. The students there seem rather intellegient and so we are looking forward to some thought provoking meetings. More coming soon as we continue there this week.
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Post by Meghann on Apr 6, 2006 20:53:10 GMT -5
Will you be there through Friday?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 6, 2006 21:00:33 GMT -5
Yes we will be back there tommorow. It has been a wonderful campus. We have had no problems at all with security or the administration. The campus is beautiful. The preaching location is shady, quite, and has lots of students passing by. The crowds of have been large and inquiring. I wish I could stay longer on this campus. Full Album of this campus can be found at: www.openairoutreach.com/gallery/Charleston
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Post by Morluna on Apr 6, 2006 21:03:50 GMT -5
I'm so glad to hear that you found us "rather intelligent." I would hate to think we gave off an air of ignorant heathenism. Welcome to CofC!
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Post by Meghann on Apr 6, 2006 21:10:19 GMT -5
I look forward to seeing you again tomorrow! I understand the CofC campus is full of lesbians and drunkards, way to bring the word!
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 6, 2006 21:45:21 GMT -5
We are very excited about coming again and concluding the week with preaching on your campus. Please pray for us, we need all the help we can get. If you guys can have a crowd waiting for us at 11:00 am we may just make you the president of our fan club. ;D
Miles
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 6, 2006 23:08:10 GMT -5
And I was just informed today by a student that my estimation of 30% of the students being involved in pre-martial kissing could actually be a bit of an under estimate. It could possibly be much higher.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 7, 2006 0:54:53 GMT -5
And I was just informed today by a student that my estimation of 30% of the students being involved in pre-martial kissing could actually be a bit of an under estimate. It could possibly be much higher. *LAUGHS* ... yes I would say you are probably correct in that assertion. I passed by you on my way to class but unfortunately I didn't have time to stay and chat. I will definitely be out to see you tomorrow. Looking forward to it.
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 7, 2006 14:15:18 GMT -5
So the heathen at South Carolina are fairly intelligent huh?
I am shocked that the percentage of students involved in premarital kissing is so high.
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Post by Meghann on Apr 7, 2006 14:56:39 GMT -5
Pre-marital kissing is wrong now, too??
I'm not going to continue arguing with you "gentlemen" as I believe you heard enough from me today, but I hope you realize your presence at our institution was not welcome, was not appropriate, and that noone benefitted from your egregious displays of blatant evangelism.
Peace and LOVE. Meghann (student, lesbian, warmonger, heathen, etc...)
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 7, 2006 15:24:46 GMT -5
Of course it is wrong. When my wife and I were courting we had a long courtship (over 5 years). We never did any premarital kissing.
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Post by Meghann on Apr 7, 2006 18:24:25 GMT -5
I did not ask what you had done, I asked where it tells me/why it is wrong
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Post by Meghann on Apr 7, 2006 18:50:30 GMT -5
Says who, where?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 7, 2006 18:51:00 GMT -5
Any sort of sexual activitiy before marriage is wrong. All sexual activity is created for married individuals (a male married to a female).
The bible condemns all sexual immorality.
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Post by Meghann on Apr 7, 2006 19:22:58 GMT -5
I'm not going to continue to ask you where it says this, as you obviously will not grant me an answer.
Rather, I'm going out on this beautiful Friday night!
Be safe in your travels, gentlemen.
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Post by Meghann on Apr 7, 2006 19:23:51 GMT -5
Also: Will you please post today's pictures ASAP?
Thanks!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Apr 7, 2006 19:29:48 GMT -5
You can see today's pics at the photo gallery. They are currently being loaded up as I type this. Please be patient as we are running into a few minor technical difficulties due to human error... (we loaded them into the wrong album) ;D www.openairoutreach.com/gallery
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Post by Meghann on Apr 7, 2006 19:44:46 GMT -5
Thanks!
Peace and Love, Meghann, aka "If god loves them, why are these men so angry?"
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 7, 2006 19:47:39 GMT -5
DAY THREEFriday - our last day on College of Charleston. We decided that we wanted to make a lasting impression, so for the first time in our three days of preaching we broke out our big "TRUST JESUS" banner. Since we have had no problems with security or administration, we thought this would be fine. We walked to the fountain to preach and when we turned the corner to get to the location there were students there already waiting for us. When they saw us one girl said "YES!" because she was apparently worried maybe we wouldn't show. They even made their own signs. Brother Miles started preaching and drew in a crowd. He lasted about 15 minutes maybe until the police showed up. Basicly all they said was "get off the campus". They wouldn't tell us what law we were breaking, only that we were bothering the students. When we left the students were saying things like "Hurray! Leave our campus! This is a diverse campus! Leave our campus!" We were kicked off in the name of diversity? Kicked off in the name of tolerance? We called up the administration building to get a permit to preach and they told us where we could preach - on the public sidewalk on the street the goes through the middle of campus, near the student center. We lifted up our banner and walked through the main walkway of campus to get to that location. On our way I said, "We are throwing a party for lesbians, fornicators, masturbators, homosexuals, etc etc in front of the student center." As we continued to march I continued saying, "All fornicators are welcome. All lesbians are welcome. All masturbators are welcome." As a line of students started forming behind us to follow us to the area. Once there, brother Miles started preaching again and didn't stop for 4 1/2 hours, answering questions and objections, rebuking sin, and calling sinners to repent. The size of the crowds grew to about 60 and started breaking out into the street. The police had to come a few times to tell the crowd to stand on the sidewalk and not the street. The majority of the campus was hostile towards the gospel and intolerant of the preaching. "Many" go the broad road to destruction but "few" go the narrow road which leads to life. QUOTES FROM STUDENTS:"I just want to say I do admire you and your passion." Elijah "I have a homosexual friend and they love God. I expect to see them in heaven." A professing Christian "Just keep going, even though you wont make many friends." A Christian Girl "I just wanted to ay thank you for going through all of this because I just got to share the gospel with someone." Another Christian Girl FULL ALBUM OF PICTURES FROM TODAY ARE AVAILABLE AT: www.openairoutreach.com/gallery/Charleston?page=5
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 7, 2006 20:17:54 GMT -5
Ahh yes, Meghann and Morluna... two girls after my own heart... they made their own signs. Very creative. But it still stands.... Repent of your sins you wicked, wicked, women. Another quote from a student:"You guys are better than HBO!" -Random student named "Jesus" I can't really say if that is a better compliment than being better than MTV. I really liked this picture with me preaching, great job Jeff. Miles
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Post by Morluna on Apr 7, 2006 20:34:20 GMT -5
I will say that I don't get where the "Jesus is Hitler" ladies are coming from to be honest... I would like to have talked to them to better understand their sentiments. Yep everybody, that's me with the "God <3's Everyone (even gays!)" sign. And that's Meghann beside me. Ahh yes, Meghann and Morluna... two girls after my own heart... they made their own signs. Very creative. But it still stands.... Repent of your sins you wicked, wicked, women. Haha, ooooh Miles you kidder you... Nice try... ;D
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 7, 2006 20:53:09 GMT -5
Do you know when the first rainbow was?
It was after God flooded the earth with water to destroy the wicked.
Before the flood it never rained but God watered the earth with dew. Let every drop of rain remind us of the wrath of God.
Now, the rainbow is to represent the covenant God has made that He will not again flood the earth with water, but scripture does say He will flood the earth with fire and all the elements will melt.
Are you girls ready to stand before God?
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Post by josh on Apr 7, 2006 21:11:45 GMT -5
Good work guys!
Plus this is interesting that the hecklers follow onto the message boards!
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Post by Morluna on Apr 7, 2006 21:31:15 GMT -5
Do you know when the first rainbow was? It was after God flooded the earth with water to destroy the wicked. Before the flood it never rained but God watered the earth with dew. Let every drop of rain remind us of the wrath of God. Now, the rainbow is to represent the covenant God has made that He will not again flood the earth with water, but scripture does say He will flood the earth with fire and all the elements will melt. Are you girls ready to stand before God? Jesse my dear friend... don't insult my intelligence. Of course I know the Great Flood story. I also know that Noah would not have taught hate. Are you kidding me? Everything is wrath and d**nation with you guys... we can't view rain as a beautiful bringer of new life? Geez... I do not believe in a judgement after death, therefore your threats that I need to prepare myself to "stand before God" mean nothing to me. Likewise I do not accept the teachings of the Bible as infallible truth, so telling me that I should or should not do something "because the Bible says so" is really ineffective in swaying my opinion. I would like to take a moment to apologize for the level of anger and hostility that arose out of the meeting/demonstration today. I acknowledge that at times I personally got very angry and perhaps said some hurtful things directed at you guys. I am sorry for that. But as that other young man said today, I am not sorry for standing up to your message of hate and oppression. I am only sorry that what I had hoped could be a healthy debate and discussion turned into a screaming match at times. We all, on both sides, felt very strongly about our beliefs and that led to a fervor that was antagonistic at times. I personally tried to keep my cool and not lose my temper when talking to you guys, to disagree with you in a respectful manner, but I recognize that I failed in that a few times. I also acknowledge that many people in the crowd were simply hateful and disrepectful to you and that was not appropriate. I hope you guys can all understand that we, and I feel sure I can safely speak for most of the people in the crowd today, we harbor no hatred for you. I love you all as fellow human beings in Creation. If I didn't care, I would not have stood outside with you guys for 4 hours today. So please don't take anything I may have said as a personal attack. I merely ask for mutual respect. Nothing more. I do respect you guys a lot for doing what you do, because as I said to Jesse (I think? Were you the one with the "Trust Jesus" sign?) I don't think you guys would come all the way out here to do this if you didn't sincerely believe that what you're doing is right. It takes a great level of courage to stand up in front of a largely hostile crowd and talk for hours on end. Nonetheless, my personal belief is still that what you are doing is wrong. The main reason I felt compelled to come out today is so that my brothers and sisters of the LGBT community would see that they are supported and loved. I did not want your voices and opinions to be the only ones they would hear today, condemning them to an eternity in firey hell. I am very much a strong supporter of free speech, and in my opinion you guys can stand there and say whatever you want, all day long. Nonetheless, you must understand that when you begin teaching intolerance and degradation for a group of people based on their natural orientation and way of being, I am not going to stand silent and let your voice be the only one that is heard. I will not be silent, any more than you will. With sincerest love and tidings of peace, Morluna Good work guys! Plus this is interesting that the hecklers follow onto the message boards! Haha, "hecklers?" That's something I never would have labeled myself as, but okay. I plan to stick around for a while and chat with you guys. You're fun to talk to. Just curious, where are you guys headed next?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 7, 2006 21:46:41 GMT -5
Morluna,
How do you determine what you believe and what you don't believe?
On what grounds do you stand upon to say something is right and something else is wrong? (Example: the Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, Bisexual issues)
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 7, 2006 21:58:49 GMT -5
No worries, I forgive you. But you still need to repent, even though you are one of my favorite hecklers. (partly because you made your own signs)
We don't know where we will be heading next, north for sure, somewhere along I-95 likely.
If you happen to be at the bars though in Charleston on Saturday night we just might see you again.
Miles
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Apr 7, 2006 22:13:50 GMT -5
If I may speak my mind personally for a moment...
It's one thing to run into university and college students who don't hem and haw around issues of judgement and tolerance, who don't like to be told getting drunk, etc. is wrong and will tell you you're wrong for saying so....and won't nitpick about 'tolerance.'
It's another thing entirely to run into students of a "liberal" campus, who pride themselves on their diverse campus...yest are so utterly blind to their intolerance.
Hypocrisy is a blinding thing, I've come to notice. Protesters for peace will cuss us out and wish us dead. And proprietors of tolerance will try to shut us up or drown us out some how.
It never fails to amaze me to see the blatant inconsistencies in the worldviews of those who are thirsting for tolerance, hungering for peace or marching for rights.
Their thirst will never be satisfied until they drink of the exclusive Living Waters of Christ. They'll never be filled until they come to Christ hungry for the Bread of Life. They'll march endlessly on this earth and ultimately to damnation until they fall on their knees before the cross of Christ.
That's my brief 2 cents.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 7, 2006 22:31:04 GMT -5
Morluna, How do you determine what you believe and what you don't believe? On what grounds do you stand upon to say something is right and something else is wrong? (Example: the Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, Bisexual issues) Well, I have formulated my opinions and beliefs on these issues in several ways. First and foremost, if there is something I am unsure about, I pray about it. I appeal to the Creator and ask for guidance and understanding so that I may make an informed decision. I meditate, quiet the mind and am still, and listen to what God has to say to me. Further, I go to the holy texts for guidance. I often look to the New Testament, the Gnostic and Non-New Testament Gospels, the Bhagavad-Gita, Daoist philosophies such as the teachings of Chong Tzu and Confucius, as well as non-religious texts such as the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for illumination on an issue. But! In the end the most important thing that goes into all of this, is the final step. After I have prayed about it, meditated upon it, and read the texts to learn from what others who have come before me have had to say about it, I meditate again. But this time, I reflect upon the study I have now done and call upon the Spirit to guide me in my assessment of all I have read and understood, and I weigh it all on my conscience. In the end, the Spirit of the Creator inside my heart and in my conscience leads me to a decision. On the issue of non-heterosexuality, I prayed and meditated upon the issue as I discussed above, and then I went to the passages in the Bible that supposedly condemn that behavior. I did a close reading of those verses in several different translations, and found that I could see no evidence to support the idea that it is a sin in the eyes of God. In every instance, (in all of the 4 or so times it is even mentioned) revision of the texts or prejudice of the writer can account for the statements made. Leviticus is irrelevant to me because Jesus says in Mark 10:5~ "Moses wrote those laws for you because your hearts were hardened." The Law of Moses is null and void. It means nothing. The new Law of Christ is to love God and love your fellow man. Simple as that. My basic philosophy for life is that rather than lean on the crutch of one single text, one simplistic and cookie cutter worldview, I must assess my actions and beliefs critically and strive to be loving and compassionate toward all of my fellow human beings, without condemning them for something that 1) they cannot change about themselves even if they wanted to, and 2) is not harmful or damaging to their fellow man and thus should not be anyone's business but their own in the first place. I stand by what I said before: If you don't like gay marriage or gay relationships, don't be in one. No one is forcing you to actively take part in it, they simply want the right to do so themselves, as is their God-given right.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 7, 2006 22:52:12 GMT -5
Morluna,
So to sum it up, you determine right and wrong based on:
1. Meditating
2. Reading other peoples writings
3. Looking inside to your "conscience"?
I have some questions on these.
1. Meditating
When you meditate, how do you know you are even experiencing God? Even the devil appears as an angel of light.
Also, when you say meditate do you mean pray or do you mean the buddhist style of meditation? Praying is looking outside yourself to God, the buddhist style of meditation is looking within yourself for truth. Do you mean prayer or do you mean meditation.
If you mean meditation, how do you know that you are pure inwardly and not corrupt? How do you know you are not looking in the wrong places for the right answers?
If you mean prayer, to which God are you praying to? The God of the bible, the koran, the buddhists, the hindues, or mormons? To which God do you pray?
2. Reading Other Writings
You listed many different writings. However, of those you listed there are contradictions. Those writings and those religious leaders were not all in agreement and did not all preach the same message. How do you decide which one to believe and which one to reject?
3. Conscience
How do you know that your conscience is as it ought to be? How do you know that your conscience has not been, as the bible says, "seared with a hot iron"? How do you know your conscience is as strong as it should be and is not weak when it comes to things you are sypathetic towards? Are you sure your conscience is un-biased?
Also, "I must assess my actions and beliefs critically and strive to be loving and compassionate toward all of my fellow human beings"
Who says that love and compassion are even virtues? If the bible is not the Word of God, who is to say that these things are even good? You would have to borrow from the Christian world-view to say these things.
------------------------------------------
I have some comments on these things:
1) they cannot change about themselves even if they wanted to
How do you know? Are you a homosexual? If so, have you ever tried to change? What makes a homosexual a homosexual?
The bible says a homosexual is one who engages in homosexual activities. Would you say that it is impossible for them to stop engaging in such activities? Are they forced to do it? As a theif is a theif for stealing, a murder is a murderer for murdering, so also is a homosexual a homosexual for commiting homosexual acts.
There are testimonies of men who used to live in a homosexual lifestyle who have found freedom in Christ and are now happily married to women and have children of their own. There are similar stories of lesbians who have done likewise.
2) is not harmful or damaging to their fellow man and thus should not be anyone's business but their own in the first place
Homosexuality and lesbianism is a threat to national security because these are nation condeming sins. Remember Sodom and Gommorrah.
Your arguements are weak. The same arguements could be used for beastiality and polygamy.
Besides, who is to say that something is wrong if it hurts others? What if someone says it's ok to hurt others? What if someone says it's the right thing to do to hurt others? Who is the ultimate authority for morality?
God is the ultimate authority and this is what he clearly says:
Romans 1: 26-32:
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
And also:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11:
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
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Post by Morluna on Apr 8, 2006 0:04:34 GMT -5
Wow Jesse, you put some time into that one. I appreciate that. ^_^
Your entire argument is based on the assumption that homosexuality is a sin. Mine is based on the assumption that it is not. Because we differ on that basic belief, any progress in this discussion is extremely difficult. We are going to have trouble understanding one another on the most basic of levels. We have entirely different worldviews. We could sit here and swap testimonies and spout rhetoric at each other all night, but where would that get us? Please don't think I'm trying to evade your questions, I'm not. I'll try to answer them as best I can. I just know that no matter what I say, you're going to have a rebuttal, and likewise for me. But I'll try to explain more thoroughly....
At this point in my spiritual exploration, I'm not really even sure that I believe in "the devil" per se so the idea that an evil spirit is addressing me rather than the Creator or a benevalent spirit is silly to me personally.
Talking about homosexuals and whether they can change... "Are you homosexual?" No, I am a heterosexual female. I like men. Nonetheless, I support my brothers and sisters of the LGBT community with love and respect. They are human beings with rights. I can't argue it any more than that.
"Homosexuality and lesbianism is a threat to national security." I'm sorry... if you honestly believe that... I am wasting my time... I could not help but laugh when I read that. I really don't even know what to say to that... you make absolutely no sense at all. What does ANYTHING that a couple does in the seclusion of their own bedroom have to do with NATIONAL SECURITY? You've got to be kidding me. But I know you're not, and that frightens me on so many levels...
I follow my heart in all things. What more can I say?
I'm about ready to turn in for the night guys. I'll catch you later. It's been fun! ;D
Heheh, I just love the assumption that I, the sinner, will be at the bars on Saturday night.
Listen... I know this probably means nothing to you, and you will either choose to believe I am lying or simply disregard this as irrelevant, but here are some stats on Morluna. You ready?
Morluna is~
A virgin. *GASP!* Not an alcoholic. Not a drug user. An everyday reader of the Bible. A lover of Jesus Christ. Not a violent "I don't give a nuts what you think" "sinner." Someone who actually cares about thinking for herself and drawing her own conclusions rather than swallowing whatever a book tells me to believe.
STOP assuming that because I do not follow your beliefs that I am ignorant and lack a working knowledge of your faith system. Stop assuming that all non-Christians are raging alcoholics and whores. STOP assuming that we are living chaotic lives rooted in evil. You say that we were intolerant of you today, but when you approach a group of people and immediately make it known that you think they are depraved sick excuses for human beings, how can you EXPECT to get any respect from them? I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church. I had a spiritual experience that some would call being "saved" at the age of 17. I used to do mission work with my church (none of which entailed condemning people on street corners...) I KNOW your holy book because it used to be MY holy book. To some degree it still is. My views have changed GREATLY as I have GROWN AND MATURED IN MY OWN SPIRITUALITY. This is what happens when instead of being stagnant in your spiritual journey and afraid to question, you instead assess your beliefs and ever question and seek the truth, your own personal truth. Jesus said that faith was not about believing blindly but about seeking. You guys missed this part of his message, apparently. Jesus had some amazing things to say, most of which you guys are completely missing out on and that makes me very sad.
That's all I'm going to say for tonight guys. I'm beat. Physically I mean, not from the conversation... I've just had a long day. Good overall, and I was very glad to be able to spend so much time out there with you guys today, but now I'm tired. Good night, I wish you well, and I'll be talking to you again soon I'm sure.
With sincerest LOVE and tidings of peace, Morluna
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