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Post by ewo0d68 on May 1, 2006 9:26:30 GMT -5
other than...thou shall not kill
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Post by elwing96 on May 1, 2006 9:43:02 GMT -5
I don't think it does.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 1, 2006 10:06:46 GMT -5
See the feminism thread. Women have their place, and other than the kitchen, it's the maternity ward.
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Post by Morluna on May 1, 2006 10:07:05 GMT -5
It doesn't. ^_^
In fact, I know of one passage where it is endorsed... but I don't remember the exact place.
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Post by rsmportland on May 1, 2006 10:55:45 GMT -5
The bible says that even while you were in your mothers womb, God knew you. Abortion is wrong. Period. Don't try to tell me about love and killing babies, the two don't go together.
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Post by biblethumper on May 1, 2006 16:06:26 GMT -5
It doesn't. ^_^ In fact, I know of one passage where it is endorsed... but I don't remember the exact place. You're quite aperson!..... to claim the Scriptures endorse abortion and yet you cannot "remember" where the verse is....well, you're a liar. Repent and believe the Gospel!
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Post by ewo0d68 on May 1, 2006 16:20:48 GMT -5
so it doesnt acutally say anywhere in the bible that abortion is wrong, it is just a belief and goes under thou shall not kill...
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Post by ejuliot on May 1, 2006 16:39:28 GMT -5
so it doesnt acutally say anywhere in the bible that abortion is wrong, it is just a belief and goes under thou shall not kill... The main argument for abortion is that life doesn't start until the child is breathing outside of the womb. Before that it is just a fetus. If a child is killed after it has been born that is considered murder but inside the womb it is not. The rebuttal is in Psalm 139: Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. If God had known us before we were born then a child is alive even when they are in the womb. Killing a child that has been born is the same as killing an unborn child. God condemned those who murdered children (do a study on Molech). P.S. Thou Shalt not kill should be a sufficient argument for this issue. Here are some other references that are referring to children/children of God Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Mar 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me. Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part. Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. I hope this helps...
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Post by Morluna on May 1, 2006 17:22:10 GMT -5
It doesn't. ^_^ In fact, I know of one passage where it is endorsed... but I don't remember the exact place. You're quite aperson!..... to claim the Scriptures endorse abortion and yet you cannot "remember" where the verse is....well, you're a liar. Repent and believe the Gospel! AGH. You are getting progressively MORE annoying and I really didn't think that was possible. There IS a passage that advocates (paraphrased) "the tearing out of one's womb (meaning fetus not actual womb... I would assume) in the case of disease etc" but as I said... I don't have a Bible implanted into my brain... so I can't remember where it is. Don't call me a beep liar just because I can't recall the location of a specific Bible verse. Someone mentioned it somewhere on here recently I believe... maybe someone can remind us where it is... I think it may be Old Testament but I'm not 100% sure. And so help me if you say "Repent!" to close a post one more time you are going to be so happy that you live in Canada and I don't... because otherwise I might just have to come over there and beat your behind. As it is... the gas is too expensive. So I guess you're safe. But seriously... STOP IT!
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Post by Jules on May 1, 2006 18:15:42 GMT -5
OBVIOUSLY abortion falls under the THOU SHALT NOT KILL commandment. But even worse than that, women who kill their children, are actually sacrificing their children to idols, as mentioned in the Bible. The idol they sacrifice to is SELF. Our culture is no different today from the cultures and people in the Old Testament, and as a result, God's judgment will come upon us as it did them. If we think for a second it won't, then we are just stupid, and not simply ignorant, because it is clearly spelled out in scripture.
The Bible doesn't speak directly to stem cell research, human cloning, etc by naming them specifically, but anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows these are also wrong. When you start using the ol "The Bible doesn't talk about ____ so it must be OK" you are guilty of creating a God in your own image, and that is idolatry.
I'm with Biblethumper. REPENT, every one of you who believes that killing children in the womb is not murder, or God's wrath WILL fall upon you.
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Post by Morluna on May 1, 2006 18:37:26 GMT -5
I've debated the abortion question multiple times before... so I'll leave that alone... but I am curious about your views on stem cell research... maybe I should make another thread about it, as it's pretty off topic for this thread. I'll do that now, and I'll make it in the "World View" forum as I clearly don't have the right to post here in your "just for the Christians" sub forum. Excuse me for being a little bitter... I guess I can see your logic... You want a place where you can discuss your doctrine without being bothered by us... that's your right... but I just feel a little snubbed all the same. Besides... if that's the case these threads shouldn't be here anyway... Jesse should probably move them. Maybe he's just busy right now. Whatever. Anyway, I'll make the thread now and then I'll post the link here for you. edit: here you go - openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talk&thread=1146526919
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Post by ewo0d68 on May 1, 2006 21:04:18 GMT -5
thanks for the research and info ejuliot
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 1, 2006 22:01:19 GMT -5
so it doesnt acutally say anywhere in the bible that abortion is wrong, it is just a belief and goes under thou shall not kill... The main argument for abortion is that life doesn't start until the child is breathing outside of the womb. Before that it is just a fetus. If a child is killed after it has been born that is considered murder but inside the womb it is not. ... If God had known us before we were born then a child is alive even when they are in the womb. Killing a child that has been born is the same as killing an unborn child. God condemned those who murdered children (do a study on Molech). P.S. Thou Shalt not kill should be a sufficient argument for this issue. Here are some other references that are referring to children/children of God Well, I have a question then. I think that what the psalmist might be referring to is the idea that God knew the person, who they are, who they will become, what they will do long before birth, perhaps even before conception--"before he was a twinkle in his father's eye," I think is the appropriate turn of phrase. In this case, anything that prevents conception could be considered wrong, yes? REPENT!
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Post by ejuliot on May 2, 2006 18:27:52 GMT -5
" I think is the appropriate turn of phrase. In this case, anything that prevents conception could be considered wrong, yes?"
Yes.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 2, 2006 19:21:13 GMT -5
Amos 1:13 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of the children of Ammon, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have ripped up the women with child of Gilead, that they might enlarge their border:
Among other things that the Lord decided to punish this nation; one was "ripping up the women with child" for selfish reasons.
There is no selfless justification for abortion at all.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 2, 2006 19:28:31 GMT -5
"Thou Shall Not Kill" couldn't be any clearer then it already is. We don't need any other scripture other then that.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 2, 2006 21:38:30 GMT -5
" I think is the appropriate turn of phrase. In this case, anything that prevents conception could be considered wrong, yes?" Yes. So you are against condom use and the pill as well? What about the rythym method? Purposefully targeting days during periods of low fertility for sex? Abstinence? Anything that prevents conception?
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Post by ejuliot on May 3, 2006 10:55:15 GMT -5
" I think is the appropriate turn of phrase. In this case, anything that prevents conception could be considered wrong, yes?" Yes. So you are against condom use and the pill as well? What about the rythym method? Purposefully targeting days during periods of low fertility for sex? Abstinence? Of course I am not against abstinence! In a marriage situation...I don't think it is right to use a contraceptive to kill a living human being especially a child. I think you know what is reasonable and what is not but you just want to argue. So, I am going to go take my self- defense final right now. I don't have time to argue pointlessly with you and I find this question a little inappropriate...
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Post by Morluna on May 3, 2006 11:09:32 GMT -5
So you are against condom use and the pill as well? What about the rythym method? Purposefully targeting days during periods of low fertility for sex? Abstinence? Of course I am not against abstinence! In a marriage situation...I don't think it is right to use a contraceptive to kill a living human being especially a child. I think you know what is reasonable and what is not but you just want to argue. So, I am going to go take my self- defense final right now. I don't have time to argue pointlessly with you and I find this question a little inappropriate... Um, I think it's a pretty legitimate question as I have been surprised by some of the answers members of this board have given to such questions. For example Miles said that he disagrees with the use of the Rythym method. I think Trekker just wants to know how you feel about birth control. "Thou Shall Not Kill" couldn't be any clearer then it already is. We don't need any other scripture other then that. Didn't you say somewhere that you agree with the death penalty? Seems kind of contradictory if you do...
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 12:31:30 GMT -5
In this case, anything that prevents conception could be considered wrong, yes?
my conviction is yes, ALL birth control or prevention is wrong. Esp the Pill as it causes an abortion as well.
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 12:35:48 GMT -5
The Bible also had some guidelines about having sex during the monthly cycle. One man was guilty for "spilling his seed" on the ground. (gotta love those Bible terms!) He was intentionally being disobedient and his action was sinful. Children are a blessing from the Lord, and Provernbs talks about a "full quiver" so it clearly says that lots of children are a good thing.
We'd be hypocrites to condemn abortion but then say other forms of "taking birth control into our own hands" is permitted. It is all for selfish reasons ultimately. While other means may not result in the death of a child, and we would not be guilty of murder, we would still be guilty of idolatry - putting ourselves and our needs over the Lord's will. And, it shows lack of faith, and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 3, 2006 17:52:24 GMT -5
Of course I am not against abstinence! In a marriage situation...I don't think it is right to use a contraceptive to kill a living human being especially a child. I think you know what is reasonable and what is not but you just want to argue. So, I am going to go take my self- defense final right now. I don't have time to argue pointlessly with you and I find this question a little inappropriate... I'm not trying to argue pointlessly. I must ask though, do you know what contraception means? It seems as though you don't. "Contraception: n. Intentional prevention of conception or impregnation through the use of various devices, agents, drugs, sexual practices, or surgical procedures." Contraception is the prevention of fertilization. The sperm and egg are prevetned from meeting in the first place. Contraception does not kill anything, other than the sperm and egg that die because they don't fertilize/aren't fertilized. Condoms are contraceptives. The pill is a contraceptive. Abstinence is a contraceptive. You said that anything that prevents conception is wrong. How do you address this question? Jules, If all forms of birth control or prevention are wrong, why aren't don't you have sex all of the time (with your husband, of course)? Perhaps you should only have sex every day during the times you are most fertile. So sorry to interrupt your...um...reproductive activities. Please, by all means, go back to breeding now.
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Post by ejuliot on May 3, 2006 18:41:14 GMT -5
trekker, Thank you for the definition. I still stand that anything that kills or can kill a child (birth control pills included) should not be used. I will not disscuss this any further because I think it is an inappropraite conversation to have with a total stranger and something I would rather keep between a spouse and myself.
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Post by biblethumper on May 3, 2006 19:08:55 GMT -5
wow, treky.. aren;t you the pinnacle of success. (not)
You're a filthy, rotten, whoremongering wretched sinner.
You're going to hell unless you repent!
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 4, 2006 11:16:20 GMT -5
abortion is not articulated in the bible, but it does provide excellent documentaion of god, through his followers, dashing infants to pieces and ripping open the bellies of pregnant women. (hosea 13:16) there is more where that came from, but i am currently in the progress of trying to locate them all. should anyone be interested in anymore biblical evidence supporting murder, abortion, etc. then PM, email, or contact me by aim.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 4, 2006 21:04:39 GMT -5
trekker, Thank you for the definition. I still stand that anything that kills or can kill a child (birth control pills included) should not be used. I will not disscuss this any further because I think it is an inappropraite conversation to have with a total stranger and something I would rather keep between a spouse and myself. Guns can kill children too, are they ever good? I personally don't think so, but I was wondering about your opinion. You don't mind discussing something that is so obviously in the perview of mugger and his(her) victim do you?
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 4, 2006 21:06:26 GMT -5
wow, treky.. aren;t you the pinnacle of success. (not) You're a filthy, rotten, sleepermongering wretched sinner. You're going to hell unless you repent! Yes, we've established that I'm going to go to hell if I don't repent. Thank you for reminding me. I assure you that I have not forgotten. As a matter of fact, I posted a rather long post culmintating in the statement that if being righteous is like you make it out, I'd rather go to hell. What exactly is a sleepermonger? I wasn't aware that my actions warranted the creation of a new word.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 4, 2006 23:13:08 GMT -5
guns don't kill children, bullets do!
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Post by wkufan on May 5, 2006 23:37:33 GMT -5
Guns can kill children too, are they ever good? So can cars, dogs, dieased rats, cute and cuddly rabies laced bunnies, planes, buildings, air... Ask those liberated from Auschwitz with guns if that wasn't good.
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Post by biblethumper on May 9, 2006 14:39:29 GMT -5
Birth control (at least here in canada) isn't "killing a child".
Birth Control medication PREVENTS sperm from reaching the ovaries.
You can't kill a child that doesn;t exist and has not been conceived.
I'm not against the "pill" in any shape, fashion or form.
The "morning after" pill and offshoots such as that are definately sinful, as they are designed to terminate a conception.
The "pill" is not so.
It PREVENTS the sperm from swimming his way up to the egg, so no fertilization takes place.
Far from murder.
RCC dogma raped the intelligent use of God given medication and Protestants bought into it.
Not good.
It is an established medical fact that the "pill" prevents rather than terminates.
Any statement to the contrary is an ill informed statement showing ignorance.
If the general population en-masse has been lied to about the actual effects of the "pill" could someone please provide the proof of this and why we're all deceived into thinking the "pill' is good when it;s really a murder-device?
Awaiting your reply.
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