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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 1, 2006 17:17:56 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I'm surely not advocating preaching until you get killed. Sometimes it happens (not often here). Jesus said it best...
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 1, 2006 17:29:04 GMT -5
Do you guys think we should picket abortion mills Go for it. I think there is an abortion mill here. I might try to go to it sometime. I don't see it much different than going to the bars to preach.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 1, 2006 19:17:51 GMT -5
Do you guys think we should picket abortion mills Go for it. I think there is an abortion mill here. I might try to go to it sometime. I don't see it much different than going to the bars to preach. I'm one that would say...as I've said before, that it's right to picket and so on. I'm glad you agree. But you must also admitt that it is defending the preborn thru a resistance.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 1, 2006 20:26:56 GMT -5
I've preached outside of abortion mills quite a few times. I've gone with teams that have big signs of aborted babies. I think it has it's place.
I would encourage Christians to get out there and protest at these abortion clinics and talk to women trying to go in to persuade them not to. Babies have been saved this way.
My only caution is not to allow abortion to be your primary focus. It is only one thing we must come against, don't let it become the only thing you come against.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 1, 2006 20:35:05 GMT -5
I've preached outside of abortion mills quite a few times. I've gone with teams that have big signs of aborted babies. I think it has it's place. I would encourage Christians to get out there and protest at these abortion clinics and talk to women trying to go in to persuade them not to. Babies have been saved this way. My only caution is not to allow abortion to be your primary focus. It is only one thing we must come against, don't let it become the only thing you come against. Well said. Jesus is to be our focus. Jesus A-Z
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 1, 2006 20:39:00 GMT -5
Amen. I think if you lose your focus you can become a political activist more than a preacher.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 1, 2006 21:22:38 GMT -5
I've preached outside of abortion mills quite a few times. I've gone with teams that have big signs of aborted babies. I think it has it's place. I would encourage Christians to get out there and protest at these abortion clinics and talk to women trying to go in to persuade them not to. Babies have been saved this way. My only caution is not to allow abortion to be your primary focus. It is only one thing we must come against, don't let it become the only thing you come against. I agree with that. It's a little more complex than that for me though. I am not a full time open air preacher. I can only get involved in these tours a couple times a year. Besides my regular evangelism thru my Church. A lot of work has to be done in the LE community. Part of is not so much politics....more than it is a struggle for power. At least that is where I can be used right now.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 4, 2006 11:23:34 GMT -5
Amen. I think if you lose your focus you can become a political activist more than a preacher. QUEERLY BELOVED Homosexual-activist cop threatens Christians Officer orders pro-marriage petitions removed from Promise Keepers event -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: August 4, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2006 WorldNetDaily.com A homosexual-activist police officer assigned to security at a Promise Keepers men's conference in Florida is being investigated for threatening members of a Christian organization petitioning for a state constitutional marriage amendment. "I have never in my life seen such unprofessional and bizarre behavior from a law enforcement officer," said John Stemberger, the president and general counsel of the Florida Family Policy Council. "This kind of ridiculous harassment and intimidation was meant to thwart the effort to protect marriage in Florida. It should remind all of us that we are engaged in a culture war. …" Sgt. Stephen Allen, right, kisses another officer to mock Christians (Florida Family Policy Council) His group had rented a display table at a June Promise Keepers conference in the Fort Lauderdale area to publicize its effort to collect more than 611,000 signatures on petitions to call for a vote of Florida people. The goal is to protect traditional marriage – between one man and one woman – in the state constitution. But as the signatures were being collected, officers of the Sunrise city police department ordered volunteers for Florida4Marriage.org to stop accepting names. "Officers then physically removed the petitions from 'public view' on the table at the exhibitors tent," the council said in a website update of the situation. "Two of the male officers mocked the volunteers by kissing each other after they initially removed all the petitions from the area." Stemberger yesterday told WorldNetDaily the situation now is on hold while the police department fulfills its obligation to do an investigation. "I have filed the complaint with internal affairs. They are doing a good-faith investigation because they've called me several times. I know that the officer's retained counsel," he said. "No one would have ever believed our story without that photograph. That photograph really captures the attitude that we were approached with," he said. The camera was a fortunate circumstance, he said, because one volunteer said she always carried one around. Her tape recorder, however, didn't work, he said. Stemberger said without a significant result from the police department's investigation, it would produce a "chilling" effect on any Christian activities in public areas. "Marriage is the picture God gives in the Scripture about Christ and the church," he said. In the actual confrontation, Stemberger was called after the officers removed the petitions. He sought further legal counsel from Rick Nelson of American Liberties Institute and then confronted Sgt. Allen. He said he asked the sergeant what law or ordinance was being violated by the petitions and Allen simply responded with a not-entirely accurate lecture on Jesus' view of homosexuality in the New Testament and the statement that the petition was a "waste of time." The sergeant then proclaimed he was the authority and "the Bible says that Christians should obey the authorities." Allen was backed up by four other Sunrise officers and continued to argue "theology" even after Promise Keepers' own security and event officials arrived and explained the petitions were authorized. Allen also threatened to arrest Stemberger, who stood his ground. The situation ultimately cooled down when managers for the arena told the sergeant to stand down, the council said. WND's calls to the city manager's office yesterday were referred to the police chief, whose secretary said he was out of town and unavailable to provide an update on the investigation. The police agency's website does speak of a "diversified" team of officers. The petition drive is trying to collect 611,009 signatures to put the issue on the 2008 election ballot. Similar constitutional amendments already have been endorsed by voters in 20 states, with another half dozen on the ballot this year already. "We always have great relationships with the venues and the security details (at the conferences) and that's the first time we ever saw that level of partisanship from security," Promise Keepers spokesman Steve Chavis told WND
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 4, 2006 12:01:54 GMT -5
That cop sounds like he is full of the devil. I'm curious, what made you quote me before you pasted the article?
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Post by oap001 on Aug 4, 2006 12:50:11 GMT -5
That cop sounds like he is full of the devil. I'm curious, what made you quote me before you pasted the article? I was going to write something and I wanted to use the spell check function onthe quote thing. Sorry..... See what I'm saying is you guys don't always understand everything that is occuring in the battle. God uses us where we are at different places. What do you think it is like for any Christians in that department. If there are any...that are allowed to work there.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 4, 2006 13:09:21 GMT -5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community Policing
The Sunrise Police Department is committed to community-oriented policing - a philosophy that promotes partnership, problem solving and prevention. This neighborhood-focused approach puts police personnel in closer contact with the citizens they serve, and fosters communication and trust.
To help further its grass roots efforts, the Department maintains an Office of Community Policing that coordinates crime prevention. McGruff the Crime Dog greets a young resident at a car safety seat check-up.
Their programs include Neighborhood Watch meetings, bicycle registration and security surveys.
For more information on community policing, please call (954) 746-3384, or refer to the following Web pages: What Is Community Policing? Partnership Effective community policing has a positive impact on reducing neighborhood crime, helping to reduce fear of crime and enhancing the quality of life in the community. It accomplishes these things by combining the efforts and resources of the police, local government and community members
I'll say that they are being held responsible by "community leaders".
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 4, 2006 13:18:39 GMT -5
Yes, I read about this several months ago.
I think people who never preach to homosexuals have no idea how they operate and how anti-God most of them are.
Many people at the church I attend seem to think all I do is go out and bash homosexuals. I condemn all kinds of sin, but homosexuals are the ones who put up the most opposition.
Most homosexuals are quick to tell you Jesus loves them, so that is not the message we need to come with at all.
I will say that in our country to preach against certain sins like homosex and abortion almost requires us to become somewhat of a political activist. It is true though if we only focus on one thing we can just become a political activist.
The problem is most Christians are not enough of a political activist. They want to avoid confronting the sins head on and just talk about Jesus. Confronting these sins head on will make quite a stir and may get you in trouble with the law.
If we don't fight to uphold first amendment rights while we have them we will lose them.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 4, 2006 13:23:06 GMT -5
Amen!
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 4, 2006 13:45:06 GMT -5
I agree, preach head on against the sins of the day, and certainly about the ones in your direct view. What I meant by political activist is, having your focus on changing the laws above having your focus on changing the hearts of men.
I have no problem with using legal measures, but Satan can use anything to distract us from our Great Commission.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 4, 2006 13:48:44 GMT -5
Yes, I read about this several months ago. I think people who never preach to homosexuals have no idea how they operate and how anti-God most of them are. Many people at the church I attend seem to think all I do is go out and bash homosexuals. I condemn all kinds of sin, but homosexuals are the ones who put up the most opposition. Most homosexuals are quick to tell you Jesus loves them, so that is not the message we need to come with at all. I will say that in our country to preach against certain sins like homosex and abortion almost requires us to become somewhat of a political activist. It is true though if we only focus on one thing we can just become a political activist. The problem is most Christians are not enough of a political activist. They want to avoid confronting the sins head on and just talk about Jesus. Confronting these sins head on will make quite a stir and may get you in trouble with the law. If we don't fight to uphold first amendment rights while we have them we will lose them. First off amen...I agree 100%. And also remember guys that there is a battle that rages..in government that you probably will never see.
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Post by ejuliot on Aug 4, 2006 16:05:11 GMT -5
You're right Jesse, Jesus did send them out two by two.That's not always an option though but it's a good idea. When I first got to college I thought I was going to have to go out alone but I sought the Lord and he provided a dear friend for me who has gone out with me every time except for once (that I can think of). I can honestly say if it were not for her I would have probably gotten into sooo much trouble because she watches my back. We go out a lot at night so it is absolutely imperative that we be with eachother. As a girl I would say do not go out alone late at night and stay around large crowds.
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Post by jhopper on Aug 5, 2006 14:43:43 GMT -5
The Doctrine being discussed within Josh's threads is reffered to as Non Resistance, not to be confused with pacifism. Pacifiscm comes from the root, to pacify which means to appease. As Christians we are not called to appease or pacify.
Non resistance is an active concept whereas pacifism is a more indifferent concept. What I mean is that pacifism is ultimatley indifference. Hippie peace can be understood as pacifism an "I dont bother you, you dont bother me" philosophy.
Non resistance is acitve, active in the sense that we are provoking others to recognize theyre own carnality. Justin Marytyr wrote in relation to Non Resistane : "The Blood of the Marytyrs is seed" in effect he was sasying that by others wittnessing the death of the marytyrs, non believers were conveterted.
We all know it is wrong to bite, but, we can come up with any number of reasons to bite back. This is reffered to as the fight or flight mechanism. Carnal mans response to force is either fight (as "christians" this is justified by any number of arguments) or flight (pacifism).
Jesus teachings would provoke us to take the wrong in the face of violence, however this is not the popular view, but it was the method of my Lord. (refrence. Golgotha)
Jesus taught that we are not to resist evil, Paul told the Corinthians in 1 Cor 6 that they were rather to take the worng than to take others to law. Peter taught that it is thankworthy if a man suffer wrongfully, that it is pleasing to God if a man suffer for being falsely accused.
The N.T teachings are very clear in relation to the use of physical force, violence and retaliation. Ultimately Christ is asking us to put off our carnal nature and allow ourselves to be wronged rather than retaliate.
Ultimately it comes to Lordship. You may profess that Jesus is the Lord of your life, but only when we let Christ Reign as Lord of our lives will he truly becomer our Lord. If we cant obey his simplest request (love your enemies) then what he tells us in Luke applies.
"Why do you call me Lord and do not the things I tell you"
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Post by oap001 on Aug 5, 2006 15:20:47 GMT -5
The Doctrine being discussed within Josh's threads is reffered to as Non Resistance, not to be confused with pacifism. Pacifiscm comes from the root, to pacify which means to appease. As Christians we are not called to appease or pacify. Non resistance is an active concept whereas pacifism is a more indifferent concept. What I mean is that pacifism is ultimatley indifference. Hippie peace can be understood as pacifism an "I dont bother you, you dont bother me" philosophy. Non resistance is acitve, active in the sense that we are provoking others to recognize theyre own carnality. Justin Marytyr wrote in relation to Non Resistane : "The Blood of the Marytyrs is seed" in effect he was sasying that by others wittnessing the death of the marytyrs, non believers were conveterted. We all know it is wrong to bite, but, we can come up with any number of reasons to bite back. This is reffered to as the fight or flight mechanism. Carnal mans response to force is either fight (as "christians" this is justified by any number of arguments) or flight (pacifism). Jesus teachings would provoke us to take the wrong in the face of violence, however this is not the popular view, but it was the method of my Lord. (refrence. Golgotha) Jesus taught that we are not to resist evil, Paul told the Corinthians in 1 Cor 6 that they were rather to take the worng than to take others to law. Peter taught that it is thankworthy if a man suffer wrongfully, that it is pleasing to God if a man suffer for being falsely accused. The N.T teachings are very clear in relation to the use of physical force, violence and retaliation. Ultimately Christ is asking us to put off our carnal nature and allow ourselves to be wronged rather than retaliate. Ultimately it comes to Lordship. You may profess that Jesus is the Lord of your life, but only when we let Christ Reign as Lord of our lives will he truly becomer our Lord. If we cant obey his simplest request (love your enemies) then what he tells us in Luke applies. "Why do you call me Lord and do not the things I tell you" I don't believe in retaliation in less it is to protect my immediate family. I think that my duty to protect them is outweighed by any teaching that would say to turn the other cheek. If more fathers thought that way....we would live in a much safer world. I am familiar with the last verse you listed. But still, you take things out of cont ex. We must defend one and other. Our children and neighbors deserve it. Once again for anyone to imply that a person who makes war or doesn't agree with your position is not saved. Is without merriot....I could say anyone who lets Innocent people suffer and die is guilty of blood quilt. We will all answer some day for what we have either done or left undone. For you to say we must love violent evil doers to the point that we don't resist. That is terribly..terribly wrong. A minister of righteousness will not bear the sword in vein and evil doers should fear a righteous man. Is that not what Jesus taught?
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 5, 2006 22:55:30 GMT -5
I agree with pacp.
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Post by jhopper on Aug 6, 2006 13:51:57 GMT -5
When Christ wsa brought before Pilate he was qued with a question, are you the King of the Jews, Christs reply was "My Kingdom is not of this world, if it were my servants would fight" His words are very clear;his kingdom isnt of this world his; servants do not fight to preserve a Kingdom of this World.
There are two Kingdoms
1 The Kingdoms of this World including Govts. and Nations or Pirincipaltitie and powers.
2 Gods Kingdom which exisits in Heaven and on Earth through those living as pilgrims and strangers in this world.
The Kingdoms of this World are the product of man trying to preserve his intests and freedom. As Chritians we have no intrest in this World and no freedoms to protect. When Paul wrot to Rome he asked what can seperate us from the Love of Christ? Shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor principalities nor powers nor things present nor things to come. Nor heighth nor depth or any other creature shall be able to seperate us from the love of God which is in Christ.
Paul explains that nothing Temporal (heighth depth) nothing within the three dimension can seperate us from God, he explains that the physical realm nor the etrnal realm can seperate us from god (life orr Death) he explains that Spirirtual Powers nor Kingly Powers (Nor Angels nor principalities nor powers) can seperate us from the love of God he explains that the future or the past or any other creature can seperate us form God.
This may seem to be poetic to some but to the Jews it meant something profound....
Judaism was a religion that encompassed both a temporal Kingdom and a heavenly Kingdom. The focal point of this Kingdom was the Tabernacle. It was needful for Israel to preserve this Monument, if it were to be destroyed theyre relationship with God would absolve, as it was the place for worship prayer and sacrifice. In order for Israel to maintain a relatrionship with God the Tabernacle had to reamin. In A.D 70 God allowed the tabernacle to be destroyed even though it was empty 40 years before it destruction....
A King from Heaven came to the earth, his messege was Repent for the KIngdom of Heaven is hand! This messege of the Kingdom was the theme of Christs ministry, the Word Kingom appears about 114 times in the Gospels alone, it was the theme of Christ messege. Ths King was brought before the principalities and powers of this world and declared to Pilte that his Kingdom wasnt of this World and to the Jews he declared that the temple would be detroyed and he would raise it up again in three days...
The temple wasnt destroyed until 40 years later and was never rebuilt?............? Maybe the Jews should have fought harder to keep it from being destroyed; surely if God dwelt in the Temple he wouldnt allow its destruction.
The Kingdom of God is at hand. If something is at hand it means that it is eminent, night, close. Jesus taight that Gods kingdom was nigh, close impending and at Christs coming it was transfered from a body of stone gold and brass to a body of flesh and blood. We are the Tabernacle, we are the temple, IF we have the spirit of God in us.
You see because God allows us to be his Temple nothing inhibits me from worshipping or praying, I am to be constant in prayer, I am not limited to prayer at a house of prayer or a Temple as the Jews were. As for sacrifice we offer our bodies. We are the Temple IF we have the Holy Spirit within us. We have nothing to preserve, including life as we long to be clothed with a heavenly home 1 Cor 15. AS a Christian I do not fight flesh and blood but the principalities and powers and sprirtual darkness in high places. We dont fight in wars, we fight Sin!
When Paul explains that nothing can seperate us from God, it is because nothing can, except myself...
The tabernacle was destroyed. The Kingdom is within those who will Follow and live out Christ teachings on Earth by loving theyre enemies.
In response to pacp:
You mentioned if more Fathers though this way the world would be much safer.
If more people followed Jesus' teachings there would be no need for a Father to protect his family.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 6, 2006 14:47:30 GMT -5
When Christ wsa brought before Pilate he was qued with a question, are you the King of the Jews, Christs reply was "My Kingdom is not of this world, if it were my servants would fight" His words are very clear;his kingdom isnt of this world his; servants do not fight to preserve a Kingdom of this World. There are two Kingdoms 1 The Kingdoms of this World including Govts. and Nations or Pirincipaltitie and powers. 2 Gods Kingdom which exisits in Heaven and on Earth through those living as pilgrims and strangers in this world. The Kingdoms of this World are the product of man trying to preserve his intests and freedom. As Chritians we have no intrest in this World and no freedoms to protect. When Paul wrot to Rome he asked what can seperate us from the Love of Christ? Shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor principalities nor powers nor things present nor things to come. Nor heighth nor depth or any other creature shall be able to seperate us from the love of God which is in Christ. Paul explains that nothing Temporal (heighth depth) nothing within the three dimension can seperate us from God, he explains that the physical realm nor the etrnal realm can seperate us from god (life orr Death) he explains that Spirirtual Powers nor Kingly Powers (Nor Angels nor principalities nor powers) can seperate us from the love of God he explains that the future or the past or any other creature can seperate us form God. This may seem to be poetic to some but to the Jews it meant something profound.... Judaism was a religion that encompassed both a temporal Kingdom and a heavenly Kingdom. The focal point of this Kingdom was the Tabernacle. It was needful for Israel to preserve this Monument, if it were to be destroyed theyre relationship with God would absolve, as it was the place for worship prayer and sacrifice. In order for Israel to maintain a relatrionship with God the Tabernacle had to reamin. In A.D 70 God allowed the tabernacle to be destroyed even though it was empty 40 years before it destruction.... A King from Heaven came to the earth, his messege was Repent for the KIngdom of Heaven is hand! This messege of the Kingdom was the theme of Christs ministry, the Word Kingom appears about 114 times in the Gospels alone, it was the theme of Christ messege. Ths King was brought before the principalities and powers of this world and declared to Pilte that his Kingdom wasnt of this World and to the Jews he declared that the temple would be detroyed and he would raise it up again in three days... The temple wasnt destroyed until 40 years later and was never rebuilt?............? Maybe the Jews should have fought harder to keep it from being destroyed; surely if God dwelt in the Temple he wouldnt allow its destruction. The Kingdom of God is at hand. If something is at hand it means that it is eminent, night, close. Jesus taight that Gods kingdom was nigh, close impending and at Christs coming it was transfered from a body of stone gold and brass to a body of flesh and blood. We are the Tabernacle, we are the temple, IF we have the spirit of God in us. You see because God allows us to be his Temple nothing inhibits me from worshipping or praying, I am to be constant in prayer, I am not limited to prayer at a house of prayer or a Temple as the Jews were. As for sacrifice we offer our bodies. We are the Temple IF we have the Holy Spirit within us. We have nothing to preserve, including life as we long to be clothed with a heavenly home 1 Cor 15. AS a Christian I do not fight flesh and blood but the principalities and powers and sprirtual darkness in high places. We dont fight in wars, we fight Sin! When Paul explains that nothing can seperate us from God, it is because nothing can, except myself... The tabernacle was destroyed. The Kingdom is within those who will Follow and live out Christ teachings on Earth by loving theyre enemies. In response to pacp: You mentioned if more Fathers though this way the world would be much safer. If more people followed Jesus' teachings there would be no need for a Father to protect his family. Yes, well we live in a fallen world and there are a lot of reprobate people in it. I scanned through your post and the love of God part has absolutely nothing with us defending one and other. It's about not being able to lose ones salvation. If it wasn't for Christian currage..we would have no freedoms in this country.. The Bible and our constitutions and bill of rights lists our freedom. Does it not..the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That is something that has to be earned and defended. If you won't fight for freedom than you have no right to enjoy it's fruits. So here is a hypothetical situation. Jessee is preaching at the lake. He is leaving, it is dark and he passes a wooded area and observes a woman being beaten and raped by two men. No one is around. What does he do? In fact they are about to kill her.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 6, 2006 18:01:07 GMT -5
Well, after I call 911 to tell them that there are two men badly beaten in the woods who need immediate hospital attention, I should be able to find a big rock and a big stick.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 6, 2006 18:36:04 GMT -5
Now, for my answer hahaha:
Well, after I call 911 to tell them that there are two men badly beaten in the woods who need immediate hospital attention, I should be able to find a big rock and a big stick.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 6, 2006 21:24:44 GMT -5
Great answer...I would have rubbed them in the dirt as well.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 7, 2006 0:17:01 GMT -5
Yup. Calling 911 for the men shows that I love my enemies. And defending the girl shows that I love my neighbor.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 7, 2006 0:35:33 GMT -5
Yup. Calling 911 for the men shows that I love my enemies. And defending the girl shows that I love my neighbor. Very good philosophical answer. Now if jhopper would give a counter hypothetical situation this could get interesting.
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Post by jhopper on Aug 10, 2006 14:37:40 GMT -5
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandment. He that saith I know him and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar and the truith is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word in him verily is the love of God perfected; hereby know that we are in him. He that saith He abide in him ought himself also so to walk even as he walked. 1John 2.
In Mathew 5.38 Jesus taught "Ye have heard that it has been said an eye for an eye and a tooth tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the one cheek turn to him the also."
While before the High Priest Crhist was asked if he were the Christ the Son of the Most High. Christ Respond " I am..." Then the High Priest rent his clothes and some began to spit on him and to cover his face and to buffet him and to say unto him, Prophecy who hits you, and the servants struck him...
For even here unto were you called: because Christ also suffered us, leaving us an example that we should follow after his steps. Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: Who when he was reviled reviled not again; when he suffered he threatened not: but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously. 1 Peter 2.
Jesus taught in Mathew 5.43 "Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you."
And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, there they crucified him...
And they that passed by railed on him, wagging they’re heads, and saying... Ah thou that destroys the Temple...save yourself and come down from the Cross.
Likewise also the Chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, he saved others, himself he cannot save. Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross that we may see and believe. And they that were with Him reviled him...
Again Jesus taught in Mathew 5.43 "Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you."
Then Said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they are do....
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandment. He that saith I know him and keepeth not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word in him verily is the love of God perfected; hereby know that we are in him. He that saith He abide in him ought himself also so to walk even as he walked. 1John 2.
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies"
After the Malefactors had both reviled Christ, Jesus told the one "Today thou shalt see me in paradise"
After Christ Garments were taken by the Jews he allowed his cloak to be taken by Roman Soldiers to be gambled over.
For even here unto were you called: because Christ also suffered us, leaving us an example that we should follow after his steps. Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: Who when he was reviled reviled not again; when he suffered he threatened not: but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously. 1 Peter 2.
Again Jesus taught in Mathew 5.43 "Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you."
"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
Upon the Cross Jesus left us an example; he taught us to love our enemies... he forgave the thief
The Jews reviled and mocked Christ; he forgave them.
When Jesus was smote and mocked by the Servants in the High Priests palace he did return evil for evil but took it patiently.
If we never allow ourselves to be wronged, but rather take matters into our own hands how can we ever patiently take the wrong?
If I don’t allow myself to slapped on the cheek because "that’s not what the implications of the teaching is". If this teaching is simply to be taken "spiritually" than what does it mean....
If I dont allow another to sue me at the law to take my shirt, but, rather I counter sue to preserve my own interests. How can I ever give the plaintiff my cloak?
It takes us allowing ourselves to be wronged, slapped, sued and reviled to carry out the Lords teachings... It took a Cross for him to be reviled, wronged spit upon and murdered. For those willing to walk in his steps it will take a cross as well. Crosses were made for suffering; until a man is willing to take up his cross daily and follow Christ.... He can’t be his disciple.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 10, 2006 16:10:51 GMT -5
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandment. He that saith I know him and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar and the truith is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word in him verily is the love of God perfected; hereby know that we are in him. He that saith He abide in him ought himself also so to walk even as he walked. 1John 2. In Mathew 5.38 Jesus taught "Ye have heard that it has been said an eye for an eye and a tooth tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the one cheek turn to him the also." While before the High Priest Crhist was asked if he were the Christ the Son of the Most High. Christ Respond " I am..." Then the High Priest rent his clothes and some began to spit on him and to cover his face and to buffet him and to say unto him, Prophecy who hits you, and the servants struck him... For even here unto were you called: because Christ also suffered us, leaving us an example that we should follow after his steps. Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: Who when he was reviled reviled not again; when he suffered he threatened not: but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously. 1 Peter 2. Jesus taught in Mathew 5.43 "Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you." And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, there they crucified him... And they that passed by railed on him, wagging they’re heads, and saying... Ah thou that destroys the Temple...save yourself and come down from the Cross. Likewise also the Chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, he saved others, himself he cannot save. Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross that we may see and believe. And they that were with Him reviled him... Again Jesus taught in Mathew 5.43 "Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you." Then Said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they are do.... And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandment. He that saith I know him and keepeth not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word in him verily is the love of God perfected; hereby know that we are in him. He that saith He abide in him ought himself also so to walk even as he walked. 1John 2. "But I say unto you, Love your enemies" After the Malefactors had both reviled Christ, Jesus told the one "Today thou shalt see me in paradise" After Christ Garments were taken by the Jews he allowed his cloak to be taken by Roman Soldiers to be gambled over. For even here unto were you called: because Christ also suffered us, leaving us an example that we should follow after his steps. Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: Who when he was reviled reviled not again; when he suffered he threatened not: but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously. 1 Peter 2. Again Jesus taught in Mathew 5.43 "Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you." "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." Upon the Cross Jesus left us an example; he taught us to love our enemies... he forgave the thief The Jews reviled and mocked Christ; he forgave them. When Jesus was smote and mocked by the Servants in the High Priests palace he did return evil for evil but took it patiently. If we never allow ourselves to be wronged, but rather take matters into our own hands how can we ever patiently take the wrong? If I don’t allow myself to slapped on the cheek because "that’s not what the implications of the teaching is". If this teaching is simply to be taken "spiritually" than what does it mean.... If I dont allow another to sue me at the law to take my shirt, but, rather I counter sue to preserve my own interests. How can I ever give the plaintiff my cloak? It takes us allowing ourselves to be wronged, slapped, sued and reviled to carry out the Lords teachings... It took a Cross for him to be reviled, wronged spit upon and murdered. For those willing to walk in his steps it will take a cross as well. Crosses were made for suffering; until a man is willing to take up his cross daily and follow Christ.... He can’t be his disciple. So your saying that Jesse is not a deciple of Christ because he said he would defend a woman who was being beaten and raped? Here is one for you jhopper. Someone is about to kill your child. Do you a) Use a just amount of force to defend your child's life. or b) You do not use force to defend you child's life..
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Post by oap001 on Aug 10, 2006 16:11:17 GMT -5
So your saying that Jesse is not a deciple of Christ because he said he would defend a woman who was being beaten and raped?
Here is one for you jhopper. Someone is about to kill your child. Do you a) Use a just amount of force to defend your child's life. or b) You do not use force to defend you child's life..
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Post by jhopper on Aug 13, 2006 12:45:26 GMT -5
Does God need or require me to carry out Judgement for violence?
Why does God allow violence?
Why does God allow man to sin?
Why dosent God swiftly carry out judgement to the man attacking my child?
Is god not able to protect my child?
What qualifies as a justibiable ammount of force?
If the attacker has a gun am I at liberty to shoot first?
If I defend with a weapon, how do I control the ammount of force administered by the weapon?
What if.....................................
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