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Post by matthew7 on Dec 31, 2006 8:09:32 GMT -5
Our wonderful LORD, "Jehovah" or Jesus Christ is one and the same. Jesus CHrist is Jehovah, and He is GOD, or Elohiym. It was Jesus CHrist that gave the LAW from mount Sinai. It was Jesus Christ the died to redeem us from the broken law. It is Jesus CHrist that is our High Priest, that offers us power to obey! He is the self existant one from all eternity. If there were no law, then how would God judge us! No law=No penalty!
Exodus 20:6
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. KJV.
John 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: KJV
Jesus Christ can not change His perfect law! Why? Because it is a transcript of His character! He is perfect! He has always been! He is the I AM of the OT. When Moses saw the "burning bush" he saw Jesus Christ! The Law of God, is Jesus' LAW!
John 14:15
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. KJV.
1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. KJV.
In Bible prophecy we see a group of people that keep the Commandments of God in the very end of time! The Commandments of God are not changed! The Bible calls this group a remnant! A small amount of people! Throughout the entire Bible God has never had a large group of faithful people! It has always been a small amount! It is no different now! We need to be the ones, that have the patience or perseverance to obey, by faith, which gives us grace (power) to do it.
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. KJV.
Jesus is GOD, and He gave us His commandments from Mt. Sinia, and gave us His blood sacrifice from Calvary, and gives us the Holy Spirit from the Most Holy Place in Heaven NOW! All so we can not sin, or break the Law of God, or His LAW! What else can He do for us? We just need to obey!
Acts 5:32
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. KJV
Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; KJV
Matthew
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Post by Josh Parsley on Dec 31, 2006 14:21:33 GMT -5
Knowing good and evil, and doing the evil anyway is sin. This is why the even the Gentiles bore witness of the law written in their heart. That scripture is talking about Gentiles that are already born again. It has to be, unless you believe that people that are sinners have the same blessing of having a heart written with the laws of God on them. Look at the verse carefully. It says there conscience bears witness with the law written on their heart. The conscience and the law written on their heart are not the same thing. Men have a conscience from Adam eating the fruit. Men at the time between Adam and Moses were judged on what they knew from their conscience. No it wasn't a surprise, because it bears witness with the conscience. I do have a question... Does your conscience tell you that it is morally wrong to not make Saturday separate from the rest of the week? Amen. Amen. I can testify with you. I agree completely. I don't think you are quite following me. There is nothing wrong with doing that for children. All I am saying is that Christians are not under the law. Christians, because of their new hearts, do by nature the things contained in the law. We don't keep the letter, but we walk in the Spirit. Again, your not understanding me. I do the exact same thing. They are sinners. The need to be converted, that the condemnation of the law isn't over them. If you believe we are to keep the 10 commandments and you are not keeping Saturday holy, you are in sin. Do you see what thinking that Christians keep the ministration of death does? This is exactly why the SDAs believe much of what they believe. They misunderstand the new covenant.
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Post by trustandobey on Dec 31, 2006 16:30:01 GMT -5
"Quote" Again, your not understanding me. I do the exact same thing. They are sinners. The need to be converted, that the condemnation of the law isn't over them. "quote" (He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.) John 3:18-19) Josh the reason Sinners are condemned because they love their sin, and reject the Messiahs saving grace through His Blood. Christians that do not want to come to Obiencence to God's Word claim that obiendence is legalism. And claim Grace to cover their justification to keep their sin according to the Commandments of God. "Quote" If you believe we are to keep the 10 commandments and you are not keeping Saturday holy, you are in sin. Do you see what thinking that Christians keep the ministration of death does? This is exactly why the SDAs believe much of what they believe. They misunderstand the new covenant. "quote" Josh, Are you saying that Christians by faith (trust in the promise of God) keep God Commandments are in Sin!!! (blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.)(Psalm 106:3) Are you saying, Josh, Jesus does not have the power to keep is children from temptation, (keeps them from not sinning against Him) “Sin is the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, (2 Peter 2:9) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by there ye might be partakers of the divine nature. Having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:3-4) And what agreement hath the temple of God with Idols? For ye are the temple of the living God: as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them: and I will be their Gid, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, sith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing, (sin, against the 10 commandments) and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2 Cor 6:16) ( These promise’s Josh, can be yours) Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves form all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Cor 7:1) Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy. (Jude 24) But ye are a chosen generation, a Royal Priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people: that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: (1 Peter 2:9) Josh, Are you saying, that after we receive Jesus sacrifice for sins, there is no Law!!! So how can there be “no Law” there’d be no sinners “But we are all sinners, so the law still exists!! Where no law is, there is no transgression.” (Romans 4:15) Josh, For the Grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lust, we should love soberly, righteously, and godly, (this is keeping the Law “Josh”) in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (ALL INIQUITY), AND PURITY UNTO HIMSELF A PECULIAR PEOPLE, ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS, (NO SINNING “JOSH” and are happy to obey Christ) (TITUS 2:11…) AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS (1 JOHN 2:4) HE THAT SAITH, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPETH NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM (1 JOHN 3:24) HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME; AND HE THAT LOVETH ME SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM. (1 JOHN 3:22) FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: AND HIS COMMANDMENTS AE NOT GRIEVOUS (1 JOHN 5:3) Why are God’s commandments grievous to you Josh, is it because you can’t or won’t obey them? ? He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer shall be abomination. (Proverbs 28:9) He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth (admit your sin) and forsaketh (and quit your sin) them shall have mercy. (Proverbs 28:13) See God’s plan here Question??? If Jesus Cleanses us for our Sin, and gives us the Power to stop sinning,(keep from sin) why do then we deny is promises. If He saves us from sin, is because we do not want to sin no more against him, because we love Him. Those who do not turn from sin, after they claim to be Christians, are not sorry for their sin God has forgiven them for. ARE WE SORRY ENOUGH TO STOP SINNING, AND SURRENDER TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE WORD OF GOD, AND HAPPYLY OBEY THE LORD. SALVATION IS FAR FROM THE WICKED: FOR THEY SEEK NOT MY STATUES. (PSALM 119:155) THE CARNAL MIND IS ENMITY AGAINST GOD: FOR IT IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD, NEITHER CAN BE. (Romans 8:7) THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO CHRISTIANS THAT LIVE BY FAITH TO KEEP GOD’S 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THIS PRESENT WORLD. And the Dragon (satan) was wroth (angry) with the Woman (The Church), and went to make war (to destroy) with the remnant (very small group) of her seed, which keep the commandments of God (10), and have the testimony (the truth of prophecy) of (trust in God as Jesus did) Jesus Christ. Josh, you say we do not understand the New Covenant, question??? what part of the New Covenant do we not understand??? That we get saved, to keep sinning, MY BIBLE SAYS, BUT THIS SHALL BE THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL: (NOT THE GENTILE'S) AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAITH THE LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; AND WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE: (JEREMIAH 31:33) Josh, His people are those who have is Law. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Exek 36:26) Do you understand the New Covenant, I do not read in the Bible, that you can sin wilfully against the LORD and live, Justification of Sin, will lead to death. (Hebr 10:26) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel (Not the Gentiles)(Check out the explosing the Israel Desception)(If you are not of the House of Israel, you have no part of the New Covenant), and with the House of Judah: Not according to the covenant what I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the Lard of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the Covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, sith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (Heb 8:7-10) If you are under the new covenant, then you have the power of God to keep it, ---DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE NEW COVENANT-- Josh, a Christian is supposed to keep God first and foremost in their daily life, and Jesus said, “He that endureth to the end shall be saved!! (Matthew 10:22) And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that Obey Him. (Acts 5:32) If you want the HOLY SPIRIT, YOU MUST OBEY GOD AT HIS WORDS, OBEY HIS COVENANT (THE 10 COMMANDMENTS) The secret of the lord is with them that fear him: and he will shew them His Covenant. Paul wrote that one of the most important things for us to do is tHE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD" (1 COR 7:19) TrustandObey
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Post by matthew7 on Dec 31, 2006 22:31:22 GMT -5
Trust and Obey, Excellent post! Praise the LORD! I agree! We need to keep the Commandmnets of God! It is not legalism, but salvation. I think the reason the brethern are confused, is simply that they need to understand that God gives us the Holy Spirit when we want the Law written in our minds and our hearts. Which is the NEW COVENENT. How can you have the NEW COVENENT, which is the writing of the Law of God, the Ten Commandments in our mind and heart, but hate the LAW? That does not make sence! Hebrews 8:10 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: KJV. Look at where Jesus Christ wants to write His law! In the MIND and HEART! This is an expression of love! It is loving God supremely, for the commandments are LOVE. Romans 13:10 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. KJV. Look at what Jesus said about the commandments: Matt 22:37-39 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. KJV. The Ten Commandments are an expression of the love of God and they can only be written in us by the Holy Spirit! How can the Holy Spirit write the law in us if we hate the law and call it legalism? ?? That is dangerous! 1 Corinthians 7:19 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. KJV. PLease pray about this! It is important, because the NEW COVENANT is the LAW in us! Matthew
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 1, 2007 12:53:24 GMT -5
If I am so wrong in my interpretation, then please show me what 2 Cor 3 means and Gal 3. No one is going to get anywhere just playing scripture wars. You need to show, in context, why my understanding is incorrect.
It's not hard to make the scriptures say something that is completely absurd if you are just bent on doing it.
Jhn 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Now those two verses don't go together....
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 1, 2007 14:29:45 GMT -5
Josh, You have an excellent point! Thank you, and I am sorry if I did not make the scriptures I was posting clear. PLease forgive me, I am trying my best. But I still have so much to learn! By God's grace I believe I can explain how those scripts fit into the puzzle of the gospel. Praise the LORD! Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 1, 2007 15:55:10 GMT -5
Praise the LORD,
Please save the next post, as it will be very important in sorting out the different laws. The laws of Moses and the Laws of God the Ten Commandments. Just click and paste to a Microsoft Word file for future clarification. Thank you.
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 1, 2007 16:06:02 GMT -5
Praise the LORD,
The issue in the New Testament, not just in 2 Corinthians 3, or in Galatians 3, but in Col 2:14, Eph 2:15, and many other areas, deal with the law being done away with, or the curse of the law being done away with. It is true that something was done away with, but what? Here we need patience and understanding. The moral Law of God, called the Ten Commandments is the standard of obedience, for all morality of all mankind. This is true! But, how is the law to be kept? And what was done away with? These are serious issues, and the decision a person makes about it can affect his or her eternal life. So we need to go slow and look at the "big picture."
The Law of God was given by God himself, and written with His own finger, by Jesus CHrist. The law was then given to moses on tables of stone. After this there was given hundreds of laws called the "laws of Moses," JUst read the book of Deuteronomy and, parts of Exodus, and Leviticus. These extra laws were to govern all aspect of the life of the follower of God. All the laws of Moses were on how to keep the principles of the Ten Commandments! Every detail of the Moses' law described the judgments for breaking the law of God. Moses law contained: statutes for health, regulations for divine worship in the old Jewish sanctuary, Jewsih festival days etc... When CHrist came, and died on Calvary, He did away with the (Moses') laws that told how to keep the Ten Commandments! There were hundreds of laws! Too many to go over, these were the laws that governed all aspects of the life of the Jew, or Israelite.
The Jewish Rabbi's also called Pharisee's had illegally added to the already detailed requirements of God, called the laws of Moses. Remember these laws defined how to keep the Ten Commandments. The Pharisee's added to these laws and committed blasphemy against God. Moses' laws were perfect if followed and enforced correctly, for the old covenant. They were needed back then because the "PROMISE" of the fulness of the Holy Spirit was not given to man. So therefore, man need regulations on how to keep the Law of God, the Ten Commandments!
However, when Christ came, He upheld the Ten Commandments but did away with the laws that showed the Jews how to keep them (old covenent laws of Moses). The Jews were taught by the many, many laws of Moses, how to obey the Ten Commandments! When Christ died, we received a great gift of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy SPirit's job is to teach us how to keep the Ten Commandments. We do not need the laws of Moses to give us every detail on how to obey. We have a internal guide as to how to obey the Ten Commandments now, as part of the New Covenant. The laws of Moses are done away with. We are to keep the precepts of the Law of God (Ten C's) by our new Teacher, the Holy Spirit. Let us look at the job of the Holy Spirit from scripture.
John 16:7-9
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; KJV.
There are several points that need to be brought out. The Holy Spirit will do what?? Reprove of three things: 1) Sin 2) righteousness 3) judgment.
What is sin? See 1 John 3:4;
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. KJV.
What law is broken? The Ten Commandment law! Not Moses' law!
What is righteousness?
Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness. KJV.
This again is the Ten Commandments! Not Moses' law.
What is judgment? Judgment is for law breaking. The Holy Spirit is for law keeping! The law of God is the Ten Commandments! Not all the hundreds of laws (Moses) that teach how to keep the Ten Commands. Please note, we have the Holy SPirit, and if we follow the Holy Spirit, He will not lead you to break the law, meaning be under the law. Meaning be under the "condemnation" of the Ten C's. When we obey the Spirit He will subdue our carnal, fallen nature, and lusts, and give us power to obey righteousness, (not sin), and be found innocent in the judgment, by the power of God called grace This grace is given to us by the Holy Spirit so we can obey the Ten Commandments. This is the gospel! The New Covenant, Heb. 10:16. Heb 8:10, "...law in mind and heart..." The Ten C's. The laws of Moses are done away with and replaced by the Holy SPirit. And now we will not steal, lie, fornicate, serve other gods, idolatry, or Sabbath break. We will be obedient. The issue in the controversy is over the Sabbath, but it is part of the law that the Holy Spirit will give us power to obey! More on that some other time.
Galatians 5:18-21
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. KJV
Galatians 5:18 states, if we are led of the Spirit we are not under the LAW. Which LAW? NOT THE LAW OF MOSES! No way! That is done away with! Finished, history! See ya! It is talking about the MORAL LAW OF GOD, the Ten Commandments. The Holy spirit will not lead you to commit sin, or break the Ten C's. The being under the law, is breaking it, and being condemned by it. The bondage that is sometime talked about is when someone wants to obey the laws of Moses! That is bondage!
The issue that Paul had to fight with is the stubborn Jews that loved Moses law. They did not want to give it up! They were used to it and it was a part of their life. The Gentiles were not to be brought under the bondage of the hundreds of laws that taught how to obey the Ten Commandments. For the Holy Spirit was given to them as a teacher. See John 14:26, they were to be taught of God, not of the laws and regulations of Moses!
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. KJV.
Paul was angry, when he would evangelize a church, and come back sometime later, or receive a letter and find the church had apostizied and was keeping the Laws of Moses. This was blasphemous, because in keeping the laws of Moses, they were going back to the bondage of the ceremonial laws, and in effect, rejecting the work of the Holy Spirit! It was a terrible set back for the new churches. This is what prompted the rebuke in Galatians chapter 3. They wanted Moses, and not the Holy Spirit! They were deceived and confused! They did not understand. Hosea summerizes the early churches well.
Hosea 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein. KJV.
The New Covenent is the Holy Spirit as the teacher, not Moses's old laws that were done away with at the cross of Jesus Christ. We have the blessings of God as our teacher, also called Christ in you, or abiding in Christ, or walking with God; all of these terms are because Jesus Christ made available the Holy Spirit, and when the Holy Spirit is in us we are "in Christ." If we are in Christ we will not break the Ten Commandments, but we will not be under the obligation of the laws of Moses anymore either. That is where the confusion comes in! There were two laws, one eternal, and the other temporary until Jesus Christ died on Calvary, which allowed us to be taught of God by the power of the Holy Spirit. We do not need to be taught by the hundreds of laws of ordinances. Look at the next two texts and see the difference:
HERE MOSES TEACHES: Deut 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. KJV
HERE GOD TEACHES: John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. KJV
How do we wish to be taught the Ten Commandments, by Moses, which is bondage? Or by the Holy Spirit which is life? This is why there is such confusion about the scriptures. It is the confusion over which laws were done away, and which laws lead to bondage, and which law is liberty.
James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: KJV. The royal law here is not Moses but the Ten Commandments as taught by God and obedience by the power of the Holy Spirit. Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. KJV.
The laws of Moses had ceremonial laws that had yearly festivals, such as Passover, Pentacost, Yom kipper, Feast of tabernacles etc.. They were the laws that governed the days and yearly festivals. Concerning the old Jewish system of sacrifices and ordinances that governed all areas of their life. These were done away with, to do them after the cross was a kin to witchcraft! It was a rejection of Jesus Christ to do all the ceremonial laws, that pointed to Christ, when Christ had come. The OLD COVENANT was these laws, that taught how to keep the Ten Commandment law of God. The NEW COVENANT is the Holy Spirit that teaches us how to keep the Ten Commandments. We still have to obey the Ten C's but by the "POWER of GOD." John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: KJV. Mankind needs to obey on God's power, not on man's power.
God's power= faith that works! (eternal life)! Law of God.
Man's power= self righteousness (death)! Law of Moses.
LAWS OF MOSES TEXTS THAT CAUSE CONFUSION; Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage ?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. KJV
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; KJV.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; KJV.
There are other texts, but the simple guide, is if it is talking about doing away it is Moses' law. If is is uplifted as good it is God's law.
TEXTS THAT TALK ABOUT THE GOOD LAW, GOD'S LAW!
Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. KJV.
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. KJV.
1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. KJV.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. KJV.
Now you know why the Devil is angry at those that keep the Commandments of God, because he can not deceive them. See Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. KJV
And now you know why John, Jesus' closest disciple wrote this: in 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. KJV.
Now look at this text form Paul, and here we see he is doing away with the old law of Moses, witht the "circumcision" but he is upholding the Ten Commandments as good: 1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. KJV. There are two laws, and one is gone and the other is eternal, and can not be changed! Moses' law is done with. God's law is eternal!
Matthew
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 1, 2007 17:33:47 GMT -5
Ok, in all honesty I didn't read your whole post. I couldn't get past the first few paragraphs without seeing error.
Where does the Bible say that the "moral law" is equal to the 10 commandments? More specifically, why do you think that keeping the sabbath is a "moral law." I'm assuming what you mean by 'moral law' is what your conscience says, right?
This is why I asked you to go over 2 Cor 3. It plainly says that the ministration of death was written on stones. Can you show me what was written on stones? I bet you don't even have to look it up, right?
EDIT: I see you already know...
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 1, 2007 18:43:53 GMT -5
LET US LOOK AT GOD’S LAW IN THIS LIGHT.
When we keep God’s Law, we are not hurting (harming) ourselves or anybody else. If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: (James 2:8) The Law of God is like the two hands that hold the 10 fingers.
Now we all have sinned: (Rom 3:23) We have broken God’s Commandments (covenant), and have harmed ourselves and others, we have become criminals in God’s court room. (James 2:10) We are lost because of our willful disobedience (sin) to the Lord.
We want to live by our standards, our interpretation of God’s requirements (Not His) Which only steals from Him and others. (Isaiah 4:1) We want to be called Christians, but no Law please, (no sacrifice) This is due to Pride, selfishness, Ego, lazy, etc.
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Proverbs 16:25) O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. (Jer 10:23)
But Christ made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, Even the death of the cross. (Phil 2:7-8)
Jesus gave up self, and humbled himself (Teachable and guidable) and obedient unto death: (To whom was He obedient to) The Lord did this to save His lawless creation, and to take away the curse of the law (Gal 3:13) Which we do not deserve (Mercy) And then gave as many as receive Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, (Grace) even to them that believe on his name (John 1:12) (To keep his covenant) Believe came from the Hebrew word be-live, means to live the Gospel.
When we keep God’s Laws we are acknowledging His Authority in our lives, His Righteousness, and by faith in His promises to keep us from temptation (2 Peter 2:9)
ARE WE BACK UNDER THE LAW, WHEN WE GET SAVED: Lets see what the Bible says:
Jesus healed the man at Bethesda, Jesus said: behold thou art made whole: (healed and forgiven) Sin no more, Lest a worse thing come unto thee. (John 5:14)
Jesus saved him fro the curse of the law, and put him back under the law! (Why) lest a worse thing happen to thee.
Jesus said, Woman, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee? She said: no man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Saved from the curse of the law, and put her back under the law. Do you see what Jesus did, Jesus did not say, you are forgiven, keep your life the same, Jesus said change, if you want to keep your salvation, lest a worse thing come upon thee.
Christians do not keep the law to be saved. But because they are saved, by the Lord who gave up self, became selfless unto death for us, to save us from the curse of the law. You can not be saved by keeping the Law, and you cannot SHOW faith that you are saved unless you keep the Law? The law is a test of Loyalty, are we up for the challenge, and for the Blessings.
When we break the Law of God willfully (Justification), (as a Christian) WE show contempt for God’s righteousness to keep us from sin. When we sin,we are harming ourselves and others (where is are love for are neigbour) (James 2:8)
Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the works of this covenant (Jer 11:3) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandants, Love and keeping God’s commandments are always link together.
We are saved from the curse of the Law (Gal 3:16) To keep the Law – with His power (John1:12) Which is the show of faith in his redeeming power to do so.
If people do not want to keep God’s ways (covenant)(the commandments) by faith (Righteousness by faith) they are not a Christian, they are playing a game with their lives. They may fool us, and the world but not God.
A Christians life requires sacrifice and obedience to God’s requirements (Isaiah 1:18) Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as whit as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
WHY DO WE WHAT TO HARM ANYBODY, BY BREAKING GOD’S COMMANDMENTS, THE LORD DID NOT SAVE US TO HARM ANYBODY AGAIN. IS THIS HARD FOR US TO UNDERSTAND. WE ARE UNDER THE LAW!!! PRAISE GOD!!
DO WE AS CHRISTIANS LOVE GOD ENOUGH FOR SAVING US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, TO BY FAITH SURRENDER TO HIM AND OBEY, WHAT HE SAYS TO DO.
I AM,AND IT IS A BLESSING, AND ALL I WANT TO DO IS TELL THE WORLD THE TRUTH OF GOD'S SAVING GRACE.
If you want the HOLY SPIRIT, YOU MUST OBEY GOD AT HIS WORDS, OBEY HIS COVENANT (THE 10 COMMANDMENTS)
TrustandObey
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 1, 2007 18:52:02 GMT -5
Josh,
If you did not even read the whole post, then why are you even responding? The "Stones" are the ministration of Death! If you break the 10 Commandments, it is death! The laws of moses were to help the Jews follow the 10 Commandments. If these ceremonial laws were followed, then the principles of the LAW that told what sin is and is not, would be in harmony withthe JEW. But if they did not follow the ceremonial laws, they were in fact breaking the principles of the Ten Commandments. Thus, they were "under the Law" or breaking the law, or "under the condemnation" of the Law of God.
Now in the New Covenant, we are to follow the Ten Commandments, but not by the laws (regulations) of Moses, but by the power of the Holy Spirit. So what I said was correct! THe wages of sin is death! The death penalty is from the Ten Commandments. It always has been and always will be. THe difference, is that now we have the promise of the Holy Spirit to help us obey the LAW. We do not need the many laws and regulations of Moses. Thus, the New Covenant!
That is why Jesus came to do away with the Law of Moses; but to magnify the Law of God, the Ten Commandments. Look at this Old Testament prophecy of what Christ was to do.
Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. KJV.
Which Law did Jesus magnify? Ten Commandments or the hundreds of laws of Moses?
Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. KJV.
Now look how Jesus magnified the Ten Commandments:
Matt 5:27-28
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.KJV.
Jesus Christ upheld the Ten Commandment Law of God, for it is immoral to look on a woman with lust. That is the "SPIRIT" of the Ten Commandments. Jesus Christ magnified the law and made it honorable! He fulfilled Isaiah 42:21!!!
Look how Jesus did away with the Law of Moses:
Matt 5:38-39
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (this is law of Moses!)
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. KJV. (this is the true magnification of the Ten Commandments).
Here is the old law, in the Old Covenant: It is done away with!
Leviticus 24:20 Breach for breach, eye for eye , tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again. KJV.
If you have the Holy Spirit in your life, you will not want revenge, and to see someone else have to have their eye put out, or tooth broken off! This is New Covenant, "born again" Christ in you, love for your brother. And if you do love him you are obedient to the Ten Commandments, and have the Law written in your mind and heart.
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 1, 2007 19:27:57 GMT -5
Josh wrote: "This is why I asked you to go over 2 Cor 3. It plainly says that the ministration of death was written on stones. Can you show me what was written on stones? I bet you don't even have to look it up, right?"
All law and death comes from the Ten Commandments! The laws of Moses were hundreds of laws or regulations to make sure the Law of God was kept. Because, breaking the Law of God is death! Thus, the ministration of death is always from the Ten Commandments. All unrighteousness is sin, which is breaking the Ten Commandments. Thus, all death comes from breaking the Ten C's. The laws of Moses are done away with, for the laws of Moses were to teach (the Old Covenant) Israelities how to obey the Ten C's. But the New Covenant Israelities (you and me) are taught the Ten C's by the power of the Holy Spirit.
We see in the promise of the New Covenant that God would write His laws into our mind and hearts. HOW??? Just how does God do this? It is done by the power of the Holy Spirit!
Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: KJV.
The answer is in Acts 5:32!
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. KJV.
If we love Jesus Christ we will do the following:
John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; KJV
If we love Christ, we will obey the Ten C's, also called the moral law, because it tells us not to lie, steal, fornicate, and other moral laws! What does Jesus CHrist promise to send us??? The Comforter, also called the Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth, Holy Ghost, etc... The New Covenant is based on the Ten C's.
Matthew
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 1, 2007 20:36:39 GMT -5
trustandobey and matthew7. If you agree that the 10 commandments are the ministration of death then you agree that it is passed away. Read the text. Please stop trying to jump around to other texts and deal with the two I've presented. (2 cor 3, Gal 3) I'm going to assume you don't understand the texts if you can't explain them. That's ok if you don't, but if you don't understand those texts you have no authority to say that my understanding of them is wrong. 2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. Gal 3:22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Those are the scriptures I would like to discuss with you. If you post doesn't deal with commentating those scriptures, I'm not going to respond. God Bless, Josh
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 1, 2007 20:37:50 GMT -5
Because if your introduction isn't right, then obviously the body of your post isn't.
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Post by brobreaud on Jan 1, 2007 21:29:34 GMT -5
Where is the temptation to NOT keep the Sabbath, even if the commandment was to REMEMBER it?
It is a good principle, not a New testament binding law on Christians. Brobreaud
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 1, 2007 23:12:19 GMT -5
The forth commandment started out with remember, because it was already forgotten. I still haven't found the Scripture that says only keep 9 Commandments, or where Jesus Commanded us to keep Sunday Holy, No Change in the Bible on this change. Please show me the Scripture where Jesus changed the Sabbath, (Saturday to Sunday)
But in 2003 Rome wrote a pamphlet, challenging the Protestants why they keep their day holy (Sunday), When the Bible says Saturday is holy. They say you belong to them, by keeping their day. The Lord says it will be the Mark of the Beast. They even say it is their mark of Authority. I hope you want to check it out
Check out any search engine: Romes Challenge to the Protestants. I have also started a Thread on portions of it for you to see.
The Lords Commandments are not grievous, why do you make them a burden, and say something The Lord did not say or He did not command. The Lord is our Creator, He makes to rules, I am just standing by them by faith and preaching to the World that God's law can be kept, and must be kept by faith, Not to be saved, but to show we are saved, Obedience it the fruit of faith.
TrustandObey
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 1, 2007 23:41:10 GMT -5
Josh, I pray you are not using those text alone to prove that the Law of God is done away with, Because their is a mountain of Scripture evidence which we have explained to you that shows the law of God is still binding. Those Scripture text by themselves, it says the schoolmaster is only need to get saved, and then the law has been done away with. Then by what standard are we to live by, If not by the Lord's then who's law do we obey. We are under somebodys Authority, lets not forget this. It comes down to people do not want to summit to the LORD' will for life.
ARE WE BACK "KEEPING THE LAW", WHEN WE GET SAVED: Lets see what the Bible says:
Jesus healed the man at Bethesda, Jesus said: behold thou art made whole: (healed and forgiven) Sin no more, Lest a worse thing come unto thee. (John 5:14)
Jesus saved him fro the curse of the law, and put him back under the law! (Why) lest a worse thing happen to thee.
Jesus said, Woman, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee? She said: no man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Saved from the curse of the law, and put her back under the law. Do you see what Jesus did, Jesus did not say, you are forgiven, keep your life the same, Jesus said change, if you want to keep your salvation, lest a worse thing come upon thee.
Christians do not keep the law to be saved. But because they are saved, by the Lord who gave up self, became selfless unto death for us, to save us from the curse of the law. You can not be saved by keeping the Law, and you cannot SHOW faith that you are saved unless you keep the Law? The law is a test of Loyalty, are we up for the challenge, and for the Blessings.
TrustandObey
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 1, 2007 23:52:51 GMT -5
Satan represents God's Law of love as a law of selfishness. He declares that it is impossible for us to obey its precepts.
In Heaven itself this law was broken. Sin originated in self-seeking.
The LORD has a Government, the Angels are enforcing His precepts, He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him.
When you do not love the LORD, His ways are burdensome, and binding, come to love the Author of the Bible His Words are life, to those who seek after Righteousness, they will be filled.
TrustandObey
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 2, 2007 0:15:27 GMT -5
Josh,
I see what you are asking now. I was trying to answer the question from the bedrock of the issue, and show the difference between the two laws. This issue can not be understood, if the two laws are not clearly understood. I pray that you forgive me, for my long answer, but I felt it was important to lay the groundwork. Please go back and read that post. I will answer your question.
Praise the LORD,
Matthew
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 2, 2007 0:19:47 GMT -5
If the law could be changed, man might have been saved without the sacrifice of Christ; but the fact that it was necessary for Christ to give His life for the fallen race, proves that the law of God will not release the sinner from its claims upon him. The Cross proves the Law of God is still in effect.
It is demonstrated that the wages of sin is death. When Christ died, the destruction of Satan was made certain. But if the law was abolished at the cross, as many claim, then the agony and eath of God's dear Son were endured only to give to Satan just what he asked;
Then the prince of evil triumphed, his charges against the divine Government were sustained. The very fact that Christ bore the penalty of man;s transgression is a mighty argument to all created intelligences that the law is changeless; that God is rightous, merciful, and self-denying; and that infinite justice and mercy unite in the administration of His government.
TrustandOBey
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 2, 2007 1:03:29 GMT -5
Praise the LORD, PART 2 Law and Grace
2 Cor 3:2-3 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
Okay! Let us look at the text. Here in verse 2 of the text we see Paul is talking about the heart! The epistle written in our heart. What is Paul talking about? What is to be written in the heart?
Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: KJV.
2 Cor 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. KJV.
This is talking about the New Covenant! Look at the distinction, in the last part of the text.
1) "not in tables of stone," This is referring to the Old Covenant and how they tried to keep the Ten Commandments by following the ceremonial laws of Moses! The ceremonial laws were all given (hundreds of them) to detail how to keep the Ten Commandments. All the OT law including the Ten C's the Jews were responsible for. They had to many requirements that were expounded upon in the Law of Moses. All of which was to uphold the Ten C's, the letter of the LAW.
The whole system got so corrupted, because many of the people did not know the Law of Moses, and the ones that did that were in authority added their own rules. The Pharisees came up with a rule to "Strain" the water, because a "gnat" (very small flying insect) mat be in the water, and if you drink it you will be eating unclean food. This rule was not in the Law of Moses. The apostate Pharisees, added it for thier own recognition, and self exaltation. Jesus CHrist rebuked this!
Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. KJV.
Jesus was not even attacking Moses' law, because this Law of the "gnat" was not part of Moses' law. It was added by man! To add to the Word of God is the death penalty! But these religious leaders did not care, they were controlled by demons.
Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. KJV
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for adding to the Word! If the Law of Moses would have been followed, it would have been easy, and good for them. But it got so corrupted, and the Pharisees added hundreds of extra laws! Too many to even count, "hand washing" and other nonsence! Anyway the system was old and decaying due to the ruin of it by man!
2) "but in fleshy tables of the heart"
Again this is where the New Covenant, Ten Commandment law is to be written. In the heart, not on stone! Meaning the principles of the Ten Commandment law are to be part of our character, just like Jesus Christ. This is talking about complete restoration from the "fall of Adam." In the Garden of Eden, there were not big stone tablets saying OBEY! Rather, they had the law in thier "hearts" by the Power of the Holy Spirit. That is all the entire Bible talks about. Putting the Law of God back in our hearts, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Then we will be like Adam in character before the fall, just not in a glorified body. When Adam sinned, the Holy Spirit left, and took the Law with HIM. SIn seperates. Man sinned, the Holy Spirit left! We need it back!
Note that we are to be restored to character perfection now (matthew 5:48) and when we do this we are partakers of the New Covenant.
3) "written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God" Again this is how the Law of God is to be put back in mankind's heart. By the power of God called grace (acts 4:33, 2cor12:9, Eph 3:7). We will die if we try to keep the Ten Commandments on our strength. We need the grace (power) of God to do that. If we try on our strength, that is salvation by the works of man, which will never happen, no matter how hard we try! But if the Holy Spirit empowers us to do something, then it is God's works in us, and we get credit! Also, called the imputed, or imparted righteousness of God (Jesus Christ). We get credit for what Christ does in us! God is good! The works of God are to restore the Law. Thus, the New Covenant fulfillment!
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 2, 2007 1:37:24 GMT -5
PART 3 Law and Grace
2 Cor 3:4-84 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: This is what we need to have the New Covenant, "Law in our hearts" fulfilled in us "TRUST." Trust, faith, and belief are all the same! We must have faith! We must trust God can do what He says He will do!
2 Cor 3:4-8 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; This is talking about not trusting to our own works! If we try to keep the Ten Commandments in our own strength, we will be lost and "BURN IN HELL." But if we trust in the creative power of God to write His Law in our mind and heart, we will be saved. Look at this promise. It says to be confident! It is His good works in us! Faith without works is dead, but it is the works of writting the Law in us, and only God can do that, because He is Creator!
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: KJV
2 Cor 3:4-8 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. Look at what God gives us to be able ministers of the New Testament, His Holy Spirit, and that is what writes the Law in our mind and heart!
Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. KJV.
Gift of grace = God's power
God's power = Holy Spirit
Holy Spirit = Write Ten C's in mind and heart.
Look at why the Pharisees could not be saved! Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost : as your fathers did, so do ye. KJV. They would not allow the Holy Spirit to write the Law of God in their heart! Therefore, they rejected the New Covenant! That is why Satan used them to make up hundreds of extra laws, to make it tough on God's people, and to discourage them!
2 Cor 3:4-8 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: Praise God the glory of Moses is done away! We no longer have to keep the ceremonial laws that show us how to obey the Ten C's, but we have the Holy Spirit to do that for us, as we obey and submit to His power and teachings!
Glory of Moses= The Laws that were given to help keep the Ten C's. We are free from our works, but must allow God's works in us by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Letter killeth = self attempting to obey, without God's help!
2 Cor 3:4-8 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? KJV This means we need the ministration of the Holy Spirit to change our characters into a reflection of the perfection of Jesus Christ. His character is the Ten Commandments! See Exodus 34:5-7. Then compare to Galatians 5:22,23.
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 2, 2007 2:43:58 GMT -5
Part 4 Law and Grace:
What was the problem with the "Rich Young Ruler?"
Matthew 19:16-21
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. KJV.
We will do a short study on this issue, but it is important to point out that the "rich young ruler" was not keeping the Ten Commandments of God. He thought he was, but he did not realize that he was covetous! He did not want to sell what he had and give to others. The rich young ruler was living according to the Laws of Moses, which were given to show the Israelities how to obey the Law of God, the Ten Commandments.
That is why Jesus just went to the point! Jesus said "keep the commandments." He was talking about the Ten C's, because he mentioned them. But then he stated the New Covenant standard of the Ten Commandments, which is not to have any sin in the life, and the rich young ruler did not have an experience in serving other. He was selfish and rich, and Jesus called him on his sin. He told him to go sell his stuff. This ment to the rich young ruler to depart from his true god "idols" of money. He was covetous! He loved his money, and position! To be a "RULER" in Israel was a big position, and afforded him with much wealth. The position he had led to pride, and the money led to covetousness. He was unwilling to part with either for eternal life!
Matthew 19:20 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
This was another fatal deception! The rich young ruler stated "all these things have I kept" The ruler thought he could keep the Commandments of God on his own strength. This is salvation by works. The gospel was proclaimed, and all were expected to repent and believe. The time was over for the Old Covenant. They had to be "BORN AGAIN" by the power of the Holy Spirit! This is a total makeover in a person's character, and only God, by His creative power can do that!
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. KJV.
So the rich young ruler asked what he lacked. Why did he ask this question? Was he convicted of some sin? He knew something was just not right! When he asked, he got the question answered with pin point accuracy! The answer from Jesus, caused him to make a choice! Follow Christ and depart from the things of the world, or keep his sin and be lost. The choice was made! He went away sad!
But let us get to the heart of the matter. The rich young ruler thought he was keeping the Commandments of God. But we will see this is a falsehood, because no person that is fallen and in sin can keep a "holy" law! The law is good! In Matthew 19:17 Jesus called God good! So if only God is good and the Law is good, than how is a sinner to keep the law? Where does the goodness come from? It is not in the sinner! It is only in God! So only God can help us to keep the law! That is why we need the Holy Spirit to obey!
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. KJV.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. KJV.
So we see that the works of the law are to be done by God! This was what the rich young ruler did not understand, or else he would never have said "All these things have I kept" the "I" part disqualified him, because he sought to obey on his own strength.
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith , but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; KJV.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. KJV.
This is a true saying! It is eternal truth! No man by his strength can keep the law, or have the works of the law! The keeping of the Ten Commandments is eternal life! Jesus Christ said so! But if a man seeks to do it on his own, he will not be justified! Why? Why will he not be justified? There are plenty of scriptures that say to keep the Ten Commandment, so how do we resolve the issue and bring the scriptures into harmony?
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. KJV Acts 5:32 is a wonderful text to bring this apparent contradiction to terms with eternal truth. It is the Holy Spirit that is to write the Ten Commandment Law of God in our minds and hearts. We can not do this ourselves! We need the Creator God, which only is good, to put His good law in us! It is the works that He does in us, and the fact that we submit to the Holy Spirit in our lives, we are justified, until the work is complete, which at that time we are sealed! Sealed like Christ was!
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. KJV.
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. KJV.
So we see what all of heaven is waiting for! A group of people that are so willing to consecrate themselves to the in working of the Holy Spirit, so that they can be perfect (Matthew 5:48) and not have sin in the flesh. Not in their power, but according to the New Covenant promises. We are to be claiming the promises by faith to give us victory over sin, or character faults in our life. When we do this we will have the "DIVINE NATURE." The nature that Adam had before he chose to sin, but we know the results of sin, and will never have the desire to be back under the law. For the Law of God will be in us!
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. KJV.
The promises of God are promises of power to overcome sin! That is all they are, and there are many promises for us to claim in order to have the character of Christ restored in "fallen man." THis is the Law, Gospel, Grace, Faith, Redemption, and at the end GLORIFICATION.
Praise the LORD!
Matthew
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 2, 2007 11:38:36 GMT -5
Sure. I agree.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 2, 2007 11:43:46 GMT -5
It's a shame you ignored the phrase "written and engraven in stones."
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 2, 2007 11:45:55 GMT -5
This may be shocking... HE DIDN"T! He brought about a whole new covenant!
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 2, 2007 14:04:36 GMT -5
What new covenant changed the Sabbath to Sunday???. Where did Jesus say keep Sunday Holy in the New covenant??? " The Scripture verses Please" If Jesus made a New Covenant what are we to keep???. Where are the New 10 Commandments of the New Covenant???
WHAT IS THE NEW COVENANT???
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (not a new covenant with the Gentiles) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: Which my covenant THEY BRAKE, although I was an husband (married) unto them saith the Lord:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; (not the Gentiles)(Who is not from the house of Israel has no part of the New Covenant) ; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall by my people.
The New Covenant is to write the first covenant in the Heart, and not by our strength to do so:
(Hebrews 8:9) This covenant is repeated, that the first covenant was written on stone, the new covenant will be written on the Heart. (Same first Covenant "all 10 Commandments")
For finding fault with them he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (Hebrews 8:9)
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant (why), which was established upon better promises. (Heb 8:6)
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (Hebrews 9:14-15)
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. (Hebrews 9:12)
Sums down to this, The Lord Jesus Christ through His sacrifice through His Blood, redeem us, and then gave us the power to obey the first covenant, which they broke.
This may be shocking... HE DIDN"T! He brought about a whole new covenant!
Josh He did not change the Covenant, but gave you the strength to obey what you said "He Didn't Change". The Sabbath Still stands, and all the 10 commandments are still binding "we are able to Keep the Law by trusting in Jesus to Do so. Wow, what promises we do have.
TrustandObey
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 2, 2007 17:46:23 GMT -5
Josh,
WHAT LAW IS THE NEW COVENANT TALKING ABOUT THAN???
Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: KJV.
When did Jesus confirm the New Covenant, or New Testament for mankind? It was on the cross of Calvary! Agreed! Nothing can be changed after the cross, PAUL did not add a thing, he just clarified what Jesus Christ did and taught! Nothing is new from what Jesus said! Sunday worship did not come into the New Testament Churchs until the 300's AD... No one on PLANET EARTH CAN ARGUE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOBODY!!!! SUNDAY WORSHIP WAS AN ADDITION, from what Jesus Christ taught! Jesus Confirmed the Sabbath with His blood on the cross of Calvary! Look at the following texts!
Galatians 3:15
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. KJV.
Matthew 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. KJV
1 Cor 11:25
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood : this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. KJV
Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. KJV
Galatians 3:15
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. KJV.
Sunday worship was added by man. THe Roman Catholic Church, which is The Antichrist, did this! All the history books agree, the Bible agrees, the Catholic Church will even tell you! God's remnant church will tell you. All sources of information agree! Just a few people love their traditions, and will not humble thier hearts to listen, or even read the witness others are bearing!!! It is sad, but it has happened before when Christ came the first time, and it is happening again.
I love you brother, If you are confused on what I am saying, please just ask me to clarify!
Matthew
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 2, 2007 21:36:46 GMT -5
Try again! Huge changes happened. One being the resurrection! Two being the outpouring of the Spirit! One plus Two Equals the beginning of the new covenant.
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 2, 2007 21:44:11 GMT -5
SORRY JOSH, WE GO BY THE BIBLE AND ITS INTERPRETATION.
QUESTION? WHEN WAS THE OLD COVENANT INSTITUTED. It was started at Mt. Sinai
QUESTION? HOW WAS IT RATIFIED? By the sprinkling of the blood of an ox.
QUESTION? HOW WAS THE NEW COVENANT RATIFIED? By the blood of Jesus on the cross.
Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Galatians 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, Yet if it be confirmed, no man dis-annulled, or addeth thereto. ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE YOU CAN NOT ADD TO A TESTAMENT AFTER THE DEATH OF THE TESTAROR.
So the New Covenant did not go into effect until after Christ died, and nothing can be added or taken away after He ratified it on the cross, According to the Scripture (Heb 9:16) (Gal 3:15).
Now we must answer two more questions? #1 When did Sunday-keeping begin? When and why do you think people began keeping Sunday?
The answer if people are honest is "We keep Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus."
The Last question is then? How could Sunday keeping be a part of the New Covenant? Because scripture states that nothing could be added after the death of Christ. He died of Friday and was resurrected on Sunday. If Sunday was added after Jesus died, it could never be a part of the New Covenant, could it?
The fact is that Sunday keeping, even if it had started on the day of the resurrection, would have been three days too late to get into the New Covenant. Both Bible and history prove that Sunday was never observed by the apostolic church. It was added much, much later as a result of the gradual apostasy which developed in the early centuries of the church and which culminate in the pagan accommodation of Constantine in 330 A.D.
TrustandObey
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