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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 17, 2006 12:19:40 GMT -5
President George W. Bush: Friend or Foe?
I think he's friend. And he is a huge improvement from the adulterer Clinton. At least our current President professes to be a Christian dispite how unpolitically correct it is, and believes in Christian morality.
Your thoughts?
And the war. Do you support it? I think that for the security and saftey of our country, the war was needed. And because of the swift and severe response against terrorism, we haven't been attacked since 911!! That sounds like success to me.
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Post by bebo_kirkwood on Jan 17, 2006 13:29:24 GMT -5
George Bush=friend. George Bush has made some wise decisions so far. It seems like a lot of people have been upset about the government tapping into phone conversations. If it would keep America safe from terrorists, i wouldn't mind at all if he was tapping into my conversations. War=Support it. Even if all the war did was liberate the people in Iraq from that evil evil man I say it was worth it.
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Post by Travis M Chapman on Jan 17, 2006 21:21:27 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder if he reads his bible. Why would he endorse the giving up of the promise land (Gaza)? I personally feel that it is way out of bounds. From my understanding Sharon had planned on giving up more of God's land. How much freedom will we give up to be safe? Is it God that we trust or the US government? I think we need to pray for our president as well as all of our leaders and also use discernment and get more involved instead of sitting back on the sidelines. I feel that if the President was to do something wrong that Christians wouldn't say anything because 'he's one of us' but if it was Kerry or Clinton we wouldn't take it one bit. Let's look at what they do vs. what they say. Friend or Foe?
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Post by josh on Jan 17, 2006 21:36:01 GMT -5
Bush - Foe to Australia Bush - Friend to Australia.
We have it both ways, 1) By the increased military movements the US makes, it creates a unstable region north of us. Because we are an ally it brings increased threat upon us.
2) Friend, with the increased threat, and also when the threat is gone, the US is a strong friend that will assist in defending this nation
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Post by Kerrigan on Jan 18, 2006 8:57:49 GMT -5
I'd say that since he is a Christian and has high moral values, that he is a friend. He is especially a friend to us Open Air Preachers. Just look at the conservative religious men he is putting on the Supreme Court (I say religious, they say they are Christian or Catholic at least). This may finally bring forth the removal of the right to an abortion. Sure, there are some things that he hasn't done that I wish he would do and there are things that he has done that I might not agree with (like calling Islam a religion of peace...being "politically correct"), but he is have done a good job compared to any of the presidents of the 20th century. We must also keep in mind that he is the President, not a theologian...
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Post by Messenger Micah on Jan 18, 2006 15:36:18 GMT -5
The word I have been hearing from many who specialize in anti-abortion is they are not sure of Alito's stance on abortion. They are saying his record supports Roe vs. Wade.
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Post by Steve Noel on Jan 18, 2006 17:59:53 GMT -5
I think we shouldn't criticize our President unless we obey the Scriptures and continually pray for him. I wouldn't want to be in his position. I definitely consider him a friend.
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Post by Messenger Micah on Jan 18, 2006 20:02:51 GMT -5
steve noel,
I am not sure if you are speaking generally or to me but I am not critizing Bush. I voted for him and I would vote for him again. I am just saying I am not sure about Alito's stance on Roe vs. Wade based on what people who know a lot more than I do are saying.
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Post by Steve Noel on Jan 18, 2006 20:44:39 GMT -5
I was only speaking generally. It wasn't provoked by anything I've read on this thread. I feel that there's a widespread disrespect for the OFFICE of the President (And most other authorities, Especially Pastors) in our nation.
Steve
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Post by rickb on Jan 21, 2006 0:36:50 GMT -5
Definitely a job I would not want, pray for him.
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Post by Paula on Jan 29, 2006 1:09:32 GMT -5
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Post by texasvagabond on Feb 11, 2006 19:59:45 GMT -5
Friend or Foe?
I believe he is vastly closer to a friend than a foe.....I do have to disagree with his decision to approve the removal of Israeli families from the Gaza strip though...They won that land in a war...if that's not enough...it was a defensive war..they were attacked first......to me, Israel giving back the Gaza Strip is like the US having to give back the 13 colonies that we won when we went to war with England...my thoughts...
I really actually like President Bush.....and with all this likeness, I must point out that I also believe he's a horrible public speaker....just my thought again... ;D
This War?
I support.....Someone had to do something....
God's Speed,
Josh
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Post by Miles Lewis on Feb 12, 2006 16:27:11 GMT -5
Great to see you here on the boards Josh.
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Post by tomah on Feb 12, 2006 17:49:30 GMT -5
I don't believe in critisizing the higher powers because i believe we ought to be subject to the higher powers that are ordained of God (Rom 13). However, check out www.jesus-is-savior.com and look up some of the articles on Bush and america. I am not saying that everything is concrete true but I do think it's worth considering and pondering. Remember much of your knowledge of the man is only as good as the media and considering the media are government controlled I'd be careful about what message they portray of any politian. Our media seeks to make some of the men of God we have in government, look like enemies.
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Post by praying4souls on Apr 4, 2006 11:17:12 GMT -5
President Bush = friend or foe?
I am American and have lived here for 30 years, I would consider any born American a friend because we share a national heritage! You are a foe if you do not repent and turn to Jesus Christ!
I will not criticize Him or any other "leader"!
I've been currently reading a book about our national (American) birth, and I can see from the past that our national leaders presidents, Congressman, governors, etc. have been mighty men and women of God who were not ashamed to share their faith publicly in a political office and suffer reproach for doing so!
The devil knows the Bible better than we do! The demons know about the birth, life, crucifixion, and resurrection of our Lord! Jesus makes it very plain if we love him will obey all that he has commanded us to do! If our national leaders or anybody else does not stand for righteousness it is obvious to see that they stand for unrighteousness you can not be lukewarm in the kingdom of God! I encourage anybody who is reading this to buy a book entitled "The Rebirth of America" it is great book about our National Heritage and where we are at as a nation and where we're going , if our nation or any nation that does not "fear" God or does not repent and turn to God!
The Bible says that if we deny him he would deny us, that we should not be ashamed of him or his sayings", it is more than just publicly speaking of Christ but actions as well! Any person "President" can say they read the Bible, but practicing and obeying is more important than just mere reading! Every body in hell prays and wants to read the Bible! Satanists read the Satanic Bible and pray to Lucifer!
About the war! The Bible says that our war is not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual powers! If America or any nation is a Christian nation they will pray and seek spiritual advancement(repentance) of another nation or people before they will fight and shed man's blood! I love what a.w tozer said "No man has any moral right to go before the people who has not first been long before the Lord. No man has any right to speak to men about God who has not first spoken to God about men. And the prophet of God should spend more time in the secret place praying than he spends in the public place preaching...." same with going to war against a country!
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Post by tonyholland on Apr 6, 2006 11:45:56 GMT -5
I would say more friend than foe....As a American I support him, because that is what we are called to do. Did I vote for him? Well, thats another story. Two serious issues that I have are these
1) President Bush said that we and Muslims pray to the same God
2) I question the reasoning of the war with Iraq pretty frequently. Saudi Arabian terrorists (most of them) acting in cooperation with their terrorist leader (also from Saudi Arabia) attack our country....the natural response of course is to attack Iraq. But of course, it was important to take out those caches of weapons of mass dest.....of wait, those werent there either. I also question the reasonableness of trying to make little Americas in the middle east. Finally, the good people of Palenstine have the right to vote...a free and democratic election. First thing they do? Put Hezbolla (sp) into power. Great....good thing they now have a democratic process.
Ok, I'll cut it out....I was ranting a bit there.
This was fun....I just tied my own noose, hung it on the tree and now wait for you guys to hang me with it. ;D
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Post by Morluna on Apr 7, 2006 21:47:45 GMT -5
So, Bush is better than Clinton because he's a Christian and isn't an adulterer (as far as public knowledge goes) .... and everyone is okay with the unprovoked war he has entangled us in, the active genocide being actively practiced by his administration every day?
Essentially what I'm hearing is:
Clinton: Cheated on his wife -1 Bush: Faithful to wife (as far as we know): +1
Clinton: Generally kept the peace, and did not involve us in pointless wars based on economics (oil) 0 Bush: Takin' out them durn TERRORISTS!!! +36
BUSH WINS WITH SUBVERSION OF ALL OPPOSING WORLD POWERS! YAY!!!!
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 7, 2006 22:27:12 GMT -5
Are you sure about this? Keeping the peace in Bosnia?
Not going to say how much I support or don't support Bush though.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 8, 2006 14:25:11 GMT -5
Are you sure about this? Keeping the peace in Bosnia? Not going to say how much I support or don't support Bush though. Oh don't get me wrong, I think Clinton was an behind too. Most politicians offend me, honestly. Particularly those falling into the two main political parties in our country. As a democratic socialist, that kind of goes with the territiory... haha. I do, however, think Clinton did a much better job of maintaining the peace than Bush has. Worlds better. You're right, Bosnia is a perfect example of where he failed. Truthfully I don't know as much about his policies as I do about Bush, because I was so young then and not very politically motivated yet. Bush has dragged us kicking and screaming into a war based on economics that neither side wants. He's forcing American "democratic" values on the Middle East, and they don't want us there. We (and by "we" I mean America collectively) want their oil and to dictate how they will live. We're scared of them because they are different from us. Simple as that. This is a phenomenon that has been seen repeatedly throughout history. Ever hear of the Crusades?
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 9, 2006 0:08:53 GMT -5
The Crusades were wrong.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 9, 2006 10:48:40 GMT -5
So, how do you feel about the War on Terror, as they're calling it? Do you think going to war with Iraq and Afghanistan was justified?
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 9, 2006 13:21:23 GMT -5
So, how do you feel about the War on Terror, as they're calling it? Do you think going to war with Iraq and Afghanistan was justified? No comment.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 9, 2006 15:07:57 GMT -5
So, how do you feel about the War on Terror, as they're calling it? Do you think going to war with Iraq and Afghanistan was justified? No comment. 8-) Why no comment? Your silence disappoints me. This is not like you at all. ;D The current war is being fought on the basis of America's (and largely Christians') inability to understand and accept the different worldview and everyday system of life set up in the non-Western, non-Judeo Christian world. Further, this is a way for the US to create an "us and them" situation to unite ignorant Americans to combat "the terrorists." The people who are our supposed enemies live halfway around the world, so that we cannot actually see with our own eyes how they live, but must instead rely on politically driven, propagandist media to tell us what and how to think. This is no different from the methods used during the Middle Ages in Europe to portray the Islamic world as the satanic enemy who must be slain. If our concerns are all pointed toward an enemy on the other side of the planet, we miss the problems taking place here at home. That's the idea see? Hurricane Katrina? Oh, sorry New Orleans... we were over there fighting the terrorists, otherwise we'd have helped you out... I believe the verse, "before instructing your brother to remove the splinter from his eye, first remove the plank from your own" addresses this situation perfectly. The war going on in Iraq and Afghanistan is nothing more than a modern day continuation of the Crusades. End of story.
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 23, 2006 8:56:59 GMT -5
I don't believe in critisizing the higher powers because i believe we ought to be subject to the higher powers that are ordained of God (Rom 13). However, check out www.jesus-is-savior.com and look up some of the articles on Bush and america. I am not saying that everything is concrete true but I do think it's worth considering and pondering. Remember much of your knowledge of the man is only as good as the media and considering the media are government controlled I'd be careful about what message they portray of any politian. Our media seeks to make some of the men of God we have in government, look like enemies. The link posted has some material which is definately good, but if one goes to that site and stays for more than 5 minutes, I'd be surprised. The sense of darkness is all over that "ministry" you posted. Something very evil about that "you better believe us or you're not saved" mentality. I'd encourage you to pray about what ministries you allow into your heart, as subjecting ourselves to darkness can only cause pain and confusion in the long run.
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Post by tonyholland on Apr 23, 2006 16:15:23 GMT -5
Agreed on the "Jesus is Savior" website. For every one good thing, there seems to be 20 bad things.
Rule of thumb for me......If the website that you are looking at links to Alex Jones' site, run, run far away ;D Sorry infowars fans.
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Post by bullhornbob on Apr 23, 2006 23:15:18 GMT -5
So, how do you feel about the War on Terror, as they're calling it? Do you think going to war with Iraq and Afghanistan was justified? Well Morluna, I see that you vehemently oppose this war. It is truly a terrible thing when a young student sticks her foot in her mouth . You see, as an american, you support the war, like it or not. You pay your taxes, you support your government, and you help fund the war. That would make you an accomplice to W's murderous rampage.......guilty by association. I suggest one of two things: #1 - Immediately form a protest/signature campaign to stop all federal income taxes from supporting the war on terrorism. You had better move quickly, though. Every penny deducted from your paycheck or spent as sales tax, etc., spills more innocent blood. #2 - Pack all your stuff, move to Canada, and renounce your allegiance to America, and you can sleep with a clear conscience. Also, judging by most of your posts, I think you would fit in quite snugly with all the liberals north of the border. Oh, and take your foot out of your mouth....it is quite unbecoming and ghastly uncomfortable . SOUND OFF
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Post by Morluna on Apr 24, 2006 0:36:32 GMT -5
So, how do you feel about the War on Terror, as they're calling it? Do you think going to war with Iraq and Afghanistan was justified? Well Morluna, I see that you vehemently oppose this war. It is truly a terrible thing when a young student sticks her foot in her mouth . You see, as an american, you support the war, like it or not. You pay your taxes, you support your government, and you help fund the war. That would make you an accomplice to W's murderous rampage.......guilty by association. I suggest one of two things: #1 - Immediately form a protest/signature campaign to stop all federal income taxes from supporting the war on terrorism. You had better move quickly, though. Every penny deducted from your paycheck or spent as sales tax, etc., spills more innocent blood. #2 - Pack all your stuff, move to Canada, and renounce your allegiance to America, and you can sleep with a clear conscience. Also, judging by most of your posts, I think you would fit in quite snugly with all the liberals north of the border. Oh, and take your foot out of your mouth....it is quite unbecoming and ghastly uncomfortable . SOUND OFFHeheheh... okay. You want to play this game? Let's play. First of all, I would just like to say that if you really want to be taken seriously by anyone, you'll stop posting that ridiculously obnoxious "SOUND OFF" tagline and just type your message like a normal person. Now then, on with the game. "You see, as an american, you support the war, like it or not. You pay your taxes, you support your government, and you help fund the war. That would make you an accomplice to W's murderous rampage.......guilty by association." You see, as a citizen of this country, I am forced to follow certain laws and participate in certain governmental systems in order to live in our society. Do I make the decision whether or not to do so? No. My only input concerning what is done in this country is my power of the vote, and my right to protest and write letters to congressmen and other legislators. Just so you know, I am very politically active and I do do these things. For the record, I did not vote for Bush, but even if I had, I am not responsible for the things he has chosen to do with his place of power over the last 6 years. As to the petition idea, I don't personally have a whole lot of faith in our current government, very little at all in fact, and I highly doubt the Bush administration will listen to any number of petitions. Taking signatures works for some issues, and I've actually had success with them on some small scale changes in the past, but for something like this... the odds are slim to zero that it would work. Besides, if the problem were that George simply isn't aware that millions of Americans hate what he's doing, all he has to do is look out his window in the oval office at the continuous stream of protestors in front of the white house with their picket signs... all he has to do is turn on the news... all he has to do is look at his approval ratings rocking out at around 29%. As stupid as he appears sometimes... Bush is not an idiot. He knows exactly what he's doing and he's known from day one of this war what he was doing. To be honest, I'm not sure that he knows it is wrong. I like to think that no one would take part in such acts in full knowledge of the magnitude of their cruelty, but I guess I could be wrong. I really think that even Hitler fully believed what he was doing was right. But anyway, this isn't about Hitler. Back to Bush. We don't need to politely inform him with a letter. Experience has shown he's not going to listen to that. We need to tear down the iron gates in front of the white house and pound on his front door until he hears our cries of "GIVE PEACE A CHANCE!" Better than that, impeach the bastard. He's certainly more deserving of it than Clinton was. Now then, as to the issue of putting my conscience at ease by moving to Canada... let's think about this for a moment. Is Canada really any less guilty than America? Well... I would say yes... quite a lot less... but just the same, no country... NO COUNTRY in the industrialized Western world is without blame concerning the many many instances of oppresion, imperialism, and suffering around the globe. And besides... Canada is helping the US in the war in Iraq, so really your suggestion that I go there to escape fueling the war makes little sense at all. But that's not all. I ask you this: Do you support child labor and cruel treatment of workers? How do you feel about 4 year old children being forced to operate machinery and work long hours in factories? How do you feel about pregnant women in third world countries being forced to work 14 hour shifts up to term, and then forced to give birth at the assembly line, dropping their baby and then going right back to work? Do you think that's fair and just? No? Well, where do you buy most of your clothing? Clothing retailers like Old Navy, the Gap, Belk... or Wal-Mart, Khols... what have you... Ever shopped at any of those or equivilent stores? Yes? If so, your monies are directly supporting the oppresion of workers at home and abroad. Unless all of your clothing comes from free trade, no sweatshop, and union clothiers, you are directly supporting this kind of cruelty on the part of clothing manufacturers. Like Coke? With every Coca Cola product you purchase, you support the unfair working conditions of employees in countries like Colombia and India. For decades, the Coca Cola Company has been working with the corrupt government officials inside Colombia to prevent unionization of Coke's factories there. Union leaders have been harassed, tortured, and even murdered on the direct orders of higher ups in the Coke Company's administration. Don't believe me? Go here for information on specific court cases going on right now to prosecute the Coca Cola Company for its unjust practices in Colombia. Similar cases are also being pursued in India. Killer Coke dot org. I could go on and on, but the short version is just this: If you live in rich, industrialized Western civilization, you support multiple forms of oppresion against the rest of the world. End of story. The only way to avoid hurting other people with the spending of your money and participation in Western ways of life is simply to lock yourself off and never spend any money or take part in any Western ways of living. Our mere presence here is an abomination. Look what was done to the Native Americans of this continent. The industrialized Western world is the elite society of the global hierarchy, and the rest of the world are our slaves. Simple as that.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 24, 2006 2:51:01 GMT -5
While we're on the subject, I would like to quote Jonathan Kozol, who has done volumuous research on the inequities between urban and non-urban schools.
“All white people, I think, are implicated in [racism] so long as we participate in America in a normal way and attempt to go on leading normal lives while any one race is being cheated and tormented.” --Jonathan Kozol
I imagine that you are probably against welfare, social security, and the like. Don't like it? Well you're paying for it, so tough.
I DON'T SUPPORT THE WAR.
"The opposite of war isn't peace--it's creation." -Rent
And don't pull that bullsh1t response about how I pay taxes to support the war. I don't. I'm too poor to pay taxes. (I made $64.37 last year).
Even if I did pay taxes, however, paying taxes does not constitute support for or lack of opposition to a particular policy.
Oh, and one other thing, the money I spend on sales tax does not support the war on terrorism or the federal government at all.
I am happy to have a surcharge of 8% added to my purchases to fund school construction, the sewer rebuilding project, and urban transportation.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 24, 2006 8:22:00 GMT -5
YES Trekker!
I didn't even bring up the topic of white supremacy... but that is a HUGE example.
Every day I wake up white and middle class I am automatically priviledged and taking part in an oppressive system, even if it is against my will. I would love to go into this more, but these term papers are still glaring at me.
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Post by elwing96 on Apr 24, 2006 13:00:53 GMT -5
President Bush = friend or foe? I will not criticize Him or any other "leader"! Why not? Part of being an American is the ability to criticize our leaders. In fact, we are allowed by the constitution the change our leaders, and government, whenever they stop working for us. As a society, we MUST hold our leaders accountable for what they do, as well as criticizing them to make the country better. *International Politics Alert! Please skip if you are Eurocentric or an isolationist* In Kenya there is an ongoing debate over whether or not politicians should be held accountable for illegal activities while they are in office. As of now, politicians have general amnesty, but there is legislation to change that (anti-grafting legislation i believe). The way the Kenyan government is dealing with money needs to change, and the only way for it to is for the people to criticize the leaders. Criticism is the only way to change things. It is our duty as citizens to tell our government when they are messing up. Regardless of religion, race, gender. Those issues are important to understand where a politician stands, but should not be the basis for voting for them, let alone refusing to tell them when they are doing their constituents a disservice. Besides, if the problem were that George simply isn't aware that millions of Americans hate what he's doing, all he has to do is look out his window in the oval office at the continuous stream of protestors in front of the white house with their picket signs... all he has to do is turn on the news... all he has to do is look at his approval ratings rocking out at around 29%. George Bush narrowly won both elections, the results of which are still contested by some people. *International Politics Alert! Please skip if you are Eurocentric or an isolationist* In the most recent Zimbabwean Presidental Elections, Robert Mugabe won. Most of the world conceeds that he doctored the polls so he would win. (Robert Mugabe has been the dictatorial president of Zimbabwe for the past 20 years. He has successfully financially ruined the country as well as promote racist ideals and foster some animosity between the Shona and Ndebele people [the two main ethnolinguistic groups of the region]). I bring up Mugabe to say this: He still thinks the people want him in power. He has been quoted as saying "The people don't know what they want. They really love me" (not a direct quote, but the sentiment was taken from an interview reported by Andrew Meldrum in Where We Have Hope. Bush is expressing the same sentiment in not so many words. There seems to be a disconnect between what the American people have been saying and what the president is hearing. He has some of the worst approval ratings in history, yet will not step down or change his policies. He needs to come to terms with what most of the population wants. I think lying to the country and getting our troops into a war for his own financial gain is atrocious. In my mind, the Watergate Scandal of Nixon's administration is on the same level as what Bush has done. Not to mention the allegations of our own involvement in 9/11 (sorry to bring it up, i know i should be slapped). The racist and anti-semetic comments by Nixon are at least as bad as Bush's responce to Katrina. While I do not agree with how Kanye West said it, I do agee that "President Bush hates Black People." The UN has recieved some pressure from various countries, some from the African Union, to remove Mugabe from power. There are definite parrallels between the two men (Mugabe and Bush, or Bush and Nixon, however you want to take it) and their policies. If there is international pressure to depose a man who is only screwing up his own country, should we not do the same for a man who is meddling all over the globe?
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