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Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 24, 2006 13:29:20 GMT -5
quote author=praying4souls board=news thread=1137518380 post=1144167432]President Bush = friend or foe? I will not criticize Him or any other "leader"! [/quote]
That's really great logic! Just because someone is in a postition of leadership does not mean that they should be excused for criticism. As free-thinking individuals we have not only a right, but an obligation to speak out against injustice and corruption.
Under your scenario, no one should ever criticise any other leader. That means that not only Germans in the 1930s and 1940s had no right to criticise the policies of Hitler or his general character, but neither did Americans (because while Hitler was not their leader, he was a leader.) Leaders are not always elected, although Hitler won the seat for Reichskanzler fair and square. I suppose you think that we shouldn't criticise the leader of a mob, the leader of a terrorist organization.
I'm a leader in several on-campus organizations, does that mean that you cannot criticise what I say or what I do in those positions?
How do you draw the line? How can you?
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Post by bullhornbob on Apr 25, 2006 0:52:08 GMT -5
Heheheh... okay. You want to play this game? Let's play.
First of all, I would just like to say that if you really want to be taken seriously by anyone, you'll stop posting that ridiculously obnoxious "SOUND OFF" tagline and just type your message like a normal person. Now then, on with the game
Morluna, you missed the point. And you call yourself a college student?
The object of the post was to expose your blatant hypocrisy.
You strain at a gnat, while swallowing a camel.
And no, I am not playing games, just trying to stir your thinking (I hope).
So called advocates of "tolerance, peace, and love" are actually very intolerant, violent, and hateful. Why, you even condemn my SOUND OFF as obnoxious, but what about the huge banner at the end of your posts?
You epitomize hypocrisy. Stop crying foul when your breath smells worse than old moldy socks. You have no clue what truth and freedom mean.
You only look to undermine the good and righteous foundations of this country with selfish and sinful lifestyles that you call normal.
Well, the Bible says you are not normal, nor out for the good of the rest of society; but only to please your own greedy, sin-sick soul.
Your only hope is Jesus (or Canada).
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Post by elwing96 on Apr 25, 2006 8:14:28 GMT -5
So much for being nice to each other.
And what's with the whole "college student" thing? Morluna is probably one of the most intellegent and involved college student's I know. Not to mention being an awesome person. I don't know what college you're referring to Bob, but where I go to school, we need more people like her. The world needs more people like her. Morluna thinks for herself and I respect that, even though we do not always agree.
I ask that you show her some respect and not resort to petty insults to "prove" your point.
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Post by elwing96 on Apr 25, 2006 15:49:25 GMT -5
Now I will get back on the subject of the President. In South Carolina, Navy Personel are being given two weeks to train before being shipped to Iraq as GROUND SOLDIERS!!! Don't believe me? www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/14383391.htmYeah. Our President is infallable. We should go back to an absolute monarchy since Divine Right has chosen the Bush family to rule America for the rest of known time.
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Post by tonyholland on Apr 25, 2006 16:02:21 GMT -5
Ok, as a former Sailor, I'll chime in here.
This isn't as unreasonable as it might seem to a civilian. As you read in the article, most of the Sailors in this program are volunteers. I knew many, many Sailors that would jump at the chance to do this.
For the most part, these guys will be in logistic and security roles surrounded by the Army. As short as the "basic training" is for this, you can rest assured they will be doing a lot of practicing and training when they get to Iraq. The Army guys are going to make sure that people who are with them know what they are doing before trusting them with their lives.
Military bearing is something that is pounded into the heads of all people in each branch of the military from the time they go to boot camp. This training is what makes sailors, soldiers, airmen and marines fight instead of flee, it makes them listen to those appointed over them even in the worst of situations, it makes them put their country over their own lives.
I would agree that it would be nice to see a longer training period, but I know that the Sailors of the United States Navy will make our country proud on the ground in Iraq. I pray that the Lord will watch over every member of the Military who are serving their country!
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Post by Morluna on Apr 25, 2006 21:40:59 GMT -5
Heheheh... okay. You want to play this game? Let's play.
First of all, I would just like to say that if you really want to be taken seriously by anyone, you'll stop posting that ridiculously obnoxious "SOUND OFF" tagline and just type your message like a normal person. Now then, on with the gameMorluna, you missed the point. And you call yourself a college student? The object of the post was to expose your blatant hypocrisy. You strain at a gnat, while swallowing a camel. And no, I am not playing games, just trying to stir your thinking (I hope). So called advocates of "tolerance, peace, and love" are actually very intolerant, violent, and hateful. Why, you even condemn my SOUND OFF as obnoxious, but what about the huge banner at the end of your posts? You epitomize hypocrisy. Stop crying foul when your breath smells worse than old moldy socks. You have no clue what truth and freedom mean. You only look to undermine the good and righteous foundations of this country with selfish and sinful lifestyles that you call normal. Well, the Bible says you are not normal, nor out for the good of the rest of society; but only to please your own greedy, sin-sick soul. Your only hope is Jesus (or Canada). Sigh... I'm not sure I want to continue this discussion if all you're going to do is hurl insults concerning my personal character. You don't know me. You didn't address the issue at all in that post... could you please comment on these points? Now then, as to the issue of putting my conscience at ease by moving to Canada... let's think about this for a moment. Is Canada really any less guilty than America? Well... I would say yes... quite a lot less... but just the same, no country... NO COUNTRY in the industrialized Western world is without blame concerning the many many instances of oppresion, imperialism, and suffering around the globe. And besides... Canada is helping the US in the war in Iraq, so really your suggestion that I go there to escape fueling the war makes little sense at all. But that's not all. I ask you this: Do you support child labor and cruel treatment of workers? How do you feel about 4 year old children being forced to operate machinery and work long hours in factories? How do you feel about pregnant women in third world countries being forced to work 14 hour shifts up to term, and then forced to give birth at the assembly line, dropping their baby and then going right back to work? Do you think that's fair and just? No? Well, where do you buy most of your clothing? Clothing retailers like Old Navy, the Gap, Belk... or Wal-Mart, Khols... what have you... Ever shopped at any of those or equivilent stores? Yes? If so, your monies are directly supporting the oppresion of workers at home and abroad. Unless all of your clothing comes from free trade, no sweatshop, and union clothiers, you are directly supporting this kind of cruelty on the part of clothing manufacturers. Like Coke? With every Coca Cola product you purchase, you support the unfair working conditions of employees in countries like Colombia and India. For decades, the Coca Cola Company has been working with the corrupt government officials inside Colombia to prevent unionization of Coke's factories there. Union leaders have been harassed, tortured, and even murdered on the direct orders of higher ups in the Coke Company's administration. Don't believe me? Go here for information on specific court cases going on right now to prosecute the Coca Cola Company for its unjust practices in Colombia. Similar cases are also being pursued in India. Killer Coke dot org. I could go on and on, but the short version is just this: If you live in rich, industrialized Western civilization, you support multiple forms of oppresion against the rest of the world. End of story. The only way to avoid hurting other people with the spending of your money and participation in Western ways of life is simply to lock yourself off and never spend any money or take part in any Western ways of living. Our mere presence here is an abomination. Look what was done to the Native Americans of this continent. The industrialized Western world is the elite society of the global hierarchy, and the rest of the world are our slaves. Simple as that. So... Could you comment on this please? PS: Is my banner really that big? I have a really tiny resolution on my computer so it doesn't look that big to me. Is it bothering anyone's ability to read the page easily? If so please let me know and I'll reduce the size or change it. I didn't realize it was a problem.
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Post by dmclayton on May 4, 2006 8:52:39 GMT -5
sorry. i am of the mindset that my government is a foe, period. the country demands that 'patriots' fight our battles, and they end up being the poorest souls of america. how many senators', congressman's, etc. children and grandchildren do you see in the military?
none (or very few).
plus, any president that used a note from his daddy to get out of the guard thirty years ago is no man in my book.
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Post by cervyy on May 4, 2006 9:42:53 GMT -5
the solution to Bush? OPRAH FOR PRESIDENT!!
I'm serious when I say this, I really think she could do a helluva better job then Bush. Just think, she declares her book of the month and EVERYONE reads it. Anyone who could bring the country together over a good book has my vote.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 4, 2006 13:43:07 GMT -5
hah, not me, i can't stand oprah. she is a wealthy billionaire who has lost touch with most people. she tries to do good thruogh hre show, but what most people don't realize is that her 'gifts' to the audience all have prize tax. people that cannot afford hummers are not going to be able to afford the prize tax either...
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Post by cervyy on May 4, 2006 13:50:20 GMT -5
Ugh, I detest Hummers. If they could afford the taxes, the gas will get them.
I think she has mad potential to bring some much needed chance (I alwways say she could get rid of illiteracy)
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 4, 2006 15:20:23 GMT -5
haha. i love reading, but i do not think that most people who have literacy problems will be watching hre show or listenting to her politics to begin with...kinda futile. however, i will agree that she would make a better president than bush. a brick would make a better president than bush..it listens!
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 5, 2006 0:27:29 GMT -5
Shirley Franklin (Mayor of Atlanta) for President!
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 5, 2006 7:14:03 GMT -5
who!? presidential hopeful, step one, be nationally known. if i do not know who she is, the she isnt going to be president. haha.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 5, 2006 11:09:18 GMT -5
who!? presidential hopeful, step one, be nationally known. if i do not know who she is, the she isnt going to be president. haha. She has really cleaned up Atlanta, but you're right, she won't be president. She has already claimed that she wasn't interested, but I'd rather see her than see Oprah!
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 6, 2006 10:53:13 GMT -5
i will keep an eye out for her.
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Post by tomah on May 7, 2006 19:41:49 GMT -5
I don't believe in critisizing the higher powers because i believe we ought to be subject to the higher powers that are ordained of God (Rom 13). However, check out www.jesus-is-savior.com and look up some of the articles on Bush and america. I am not saying that everything is concrete true but I do think it's worth considering and pondering. Remember much of your knowledge of the man is only as good as the media and considering the media are government controlled I'd be careful about what message they portray of any politian. Our media seeks to make some of the men of God we have in government, look like enemies. The link posted has some material which is definately good, but if one goes to that site and stays for more than 5 minutes, I'd be surprised. The sense of darkness is all over that "ministry" you posted. Something very evil about that "you better believe us or you're not saved" mentality. I'd encourage you to pray about what ministries you allow into your heart, as subjecting ourselves to darkness can only cause pain and confusion in the long run. I agree that that site has some serious issues, but at the end of the day, there are very few sites that each one of us agree with 100%. You make a pretty strong assumption that I have allowed the ministry of that site into my heart just because I posted a link to an article on it. However, it's no big deal. I'm sure you don't think I am daft enough to swallow everything from a man (David Stewart from JesusIsSavior) that seems to think he has more light on the scriptures than almost every great man of God that has existed over the years. On the subject again...Bush MUST go! Just like Tony Blair. You would find it difficult to think of someone like Bush that so blatantly and obviously is driven by money, with no consideration for his own nation and it's future, or any other nation! The debt that America is in to China and other nations is crazy and as far as I can see, the future for Americans is looking bleak. America needs a revival that will reach into it's high powers and all those in political office.
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Post by biblethumper on May 7, 2006 21:27:34 GMT -5
Bush, through no fault of his own, was placed in position by God, as all authority is.
It's GOOD and RIGHT to speka of the good and bad politics of the leader of your nation.
Just make sure you prayed and fasted for the man first, before shooting off at the mouth with opinion, even fact....
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Post by cervyy on May 7, 2006 21:30:19 GMT -5
Do you pray and fast before the stuff I've seen you post against people during your discussions on this message board?
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Post by biblethumper on May 7, 2006 22:00:38 GMT -5
If you answer mine I'll answer your's :-)
Oh yeah... God specifically tells us to pray for specific people, and on the top 10 list we're called to pray for LEADERS; it's called a Bible Command :-)
And lastly, when i feel something I write is not appropriate i usually delete it before it is read.... I'll stand up for pretty much anything I write here and elsewhere; you may not LIKE it, but you're just going to have to deal with it :-)
Now, mind if you answer mine as I did your's?
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Post by cervyy on May 7, 2006 22:08:54 GMT -5
If you answer mine I'll answer your's :-) Oh yeah... God specifically tells us to pray for specific people, and on the top 10 list we're called to pray for LEADERS; it's called a Bible Command :-) And lastly, when i feel something I write is not appropriate i usually delete it before it is read.... I'll stand up for pretty much anything I write here and elsewhere; you may not LIKE it, but you're just going to have to deal with it :-) Now, mind if you answer mine as I did your's? Ok, I see better now. I would answer ... but what's the question??
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 8, 2006 2:42:59 GMT -5
i do not have to pray for a leader to determine whether or not he is a good leader. i suppose you would want me to spend several days praying to see if hitler is a genocidal maniac. no, the blitzkreig isn't enough evidence, let us join hands and...
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Post by tomah on May 8, 2006 11:39:04 GMT -5
Bush, through no fault of his own, was placed in position by God, as all authority is. I'm not saying that what I heard is 100% correct, but from what I gather Bush cheated his way into the position he's in and so God has permitted him that position, but it wouldn't be God's perfect will if that is the case. If God did place him there, he still is responsible for his actions. However, having said that he is probably the best of a bad bunch which is why I said America needs a nationwide revival. Bush is not a direct leader to me or my country and I am not confronted with him and his actions every day so I do not pray for him on a regular basis.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 8, 2006 11:40:50 GMT -5
we need a miracle like assassination...
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Post by tomah on May 8, 2006 11:46:01 GMT -5
You don't like him then??
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Post by rsmportland on May 8, 2006 16:14:27 GMT -5
we need a miracle like assassination... That's a federal offense friend. (FBI.gov) (Click.)
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Post by tomah on May 8, 2006 17:23:12 GMT -5
Apparently so. My grandfather was telling me that if you say anything against the President you could be put on CIA files or something.
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Post by cervyy on May 8, 2006 18:02:03 GMT -5
They must waste a lot of computer space/paper on files then.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 8, 2006 20:00:56 GMT -5
Bush, through no fault of his own, was placed in position by God, as all authority is. May I remind you that Hitler was elected by the German people. That's ok, though, because all postions of authority are ordained by God. What about Bull Conor? Perhaps you Canadians aren't aware of him. He was the police chief of the city of Birmingham, Alabama during the early 1960s. He was made (in)famous by nationally televised footage of him ordering police dogs on peaceful civil rights protesters. The Birmingham Fire Department also used their water hoses on peaceful protesters under his orders. Exactly how much praying is necessary before you can say that this authority (which was given by God via the Mayor's Office and City Council, who in turn recieved their authority from God via the votes of whites since, under the authority of God via the legislature's Jim Crow Laws, blacks were disenfranchised)? How much praying did you do before you criticized PRESIDENT (God's pick for 8 years) Bill Clinton after he got a blow job (oral sex)?
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Post by biblethumper on May 8, 2006 21:43:49 GMT -5
The Bible tell sme in the Book of Revelation that God will stir up the kings of the earth and use them like puppets do accomplish His Will.
You can bring up all of the Clinton's and perverts you want; that doesn't change the fact that God IS the One who placed Clinton in office.... why would He? Clinton was the mirror used by God to reveal to the American people who they, as a nation, were.
Perverts.
Liars.
Adulterers.
God sets man up and tears man down.
Your opinion doesn't matter in the Cout of Heaven.
Only God's Truth, Justice and Mercy will reign on that Day.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 9, 2006 7:25:11 GMT -5
my fbi file is thicker than your bible.
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