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Post by Rodgers on Feb 23, 2006 11:58:46 GMT -5
As a student of american history and a person who loves this country for it's economic and republic style of government; I am truly saddened by the way the country is continually run into the ground. The popular slogan, "God Bless America" which is said and song every Fourth of July is an outright LIE. God will not bless this country if we continue in our gross sin. In an age when the diverse rate is over 50%, pornography is at the fingertips of even the smallest children and the utter lasciviousness and debauchery of our so called education system is the ultimate cause of our downfall. FDR said that America was going to go to war against the Japanese and Nazis because we were righteous, and because of our righteousness God would give us victory over the unloving and unmerciful tyranny of the two fanatical governments. FDR was right and the Lord did give us victory. After the war FDR suggested that the American people do an entire reading of the Bible from Thanksgiving until Christmas. He thought that in view of the victory God had given us we could at least read the scriptures and learn more about our heavenly Father. We will never hear a president make such a suggestion again. This is very sobering indeed. We will never know if people took his suggestion seriously. In fact, it seems that we did not. The 60's came and went with all of its rebellion, drug using and sex. The children of the sixties were the product of parents who did not fear the Lord and raise there children the right way. Those same parents who let their children run wild were the same people who fought against Japan. These men and women gave their service to our country physically but spirtually destroyed our country in the years after the war.. They obviously did not see the loving and merciful hand of God or they would have taken Pearl Harbor as the warning it was to Fear God and follow after his statutes and judgments. So here we are over sixty years later with about as messed up society as you can get. 2 Timothy 3 "But, mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them." Jesus Christ offers everyone who will come to him with a humble heart power and victory over sin. Sin is what ultimately destroys society and households. A person may go to church on Sunday, say their prayers and then come home the next day and look a porn on the internet. They are only deceiving themselves if they think God will not deal with them because of their hypocrisy. That person has a form of godliness, they claim to be a Christian, they go to church, but they have no power, they are a slave to their lust. The same is true of our country. America is over 90% Christian, yet we are slaves to our lust, greed and way of life. Our sons are drunks filled with sexual lust, our daughters are whores with their tattoos, belly button rings and birth control pills. Are men are lazy, beer drinking, football watching bums. And our women have been robbed of everything that makes them female by the self proclaimed feminists. What is so feminine about taking some pill, aborting your baby, bottle feeding, and dropping your kids off at day care so you can go work just to pay the day care bill? Nothing! America is done if we do not return to our roots as a righteous nation that Fears God and does what is right. The Arabs and Chinese are going to steal our precious little pensions and investments right from under our feet. And we will have nothing but our sin. Repent America!
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Post by Robert Matheny on Feb 23, 2006 12:32:05 GMT -5
Good post, it's very true...
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 4, 2006 12:04:01 GMT -5
hmm. i have no desire for an american theocracy. sorry.
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Post by cervyy on May 4, 2006 13:24:26 GMT -5
And our women have been robbed of everything that makes them female by the self proclaimed feminists. What is so feminine about taking some pill, aborting your baby, bottle feeding, and dropping your kids off at day care so you can go work just to pay the day care bill? So are you saying women need to stay inside the home, give birth and raise the babies?? And if a women has the choice to have a job she deserves it's because "self proclaimed feminsts" fought to give her that chance. They didn't force her to take the job, they made it an option.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 4, 2006 13:46:01 GMT -5
my wife works, and she detests most feminists.
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Post by cervyy on May 4, 2006 13:48:25 GMT -5
Well, some people do what they do because they like to complain.
I myself consider myself a feminist even if I am a dude.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 4, 2006 15:01:30 GMT -5
there is nothing wrong with feminism, it's just that my wife and i see a few of their ideologies as extreme. believe me, there is nothing i want more than equality for men, women and people of all colors, creeds and what have you, but to try and make oneself better than everyone else is a little much.
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Post by cervyy on May 4, 2006 15:16:59 GMT -5
mhm, i agree wholeheartedly (sp)
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Post by justaman on May 5, 2006 1:08:51 GMT -5
FDR also said "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"
The very thing you people are trying to instill to make this country "Under God devisible"
Also, do not think of us, but think of the Nazis... how did they form? A charismatic man said this. "We lost the first World War I because of all the Jews we harbor", just as you're saying our country is falling apart because of the sinners we harbor...
That growning accepted attitude will cause us to fall, not our sinners. Doubt is a tool of the devil, and he's making you doubt so much that we are starting to become the monster we faught so long ago.
If God truly wished for us to only harbor his most devote followers then we would have lost the fight against the British in the Revolutionary war... because He would not have approved of the first ammendment's "Freedom of Religion" prospect.
Yes sir... there is a history before 1900.
So why is God turning his back on us? Are not all the wars we lost of late Imperialistic in nature. WWII, our last great victory, was a war against a great evil in this world, and noone will disagree we should take action against Hitler. Lately our wars have been made under the 'assumption' that the one we fight is evil... but it turns out that we were the ones with the agenda...
We have turned our back as fighter of justice... and that is why God has turned his back on us... blaming the sinners is easy, asking for forgivance of our behavior is not...
God Bless America... God Bless the World.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 6, 2006 11:02:11 GMT -5
actually, we did not win the revolutionary war. britain was not interested in the colonies anymore. for one second, put aside your american ideologies and ethnocentrism and consider this: compare the population of the colonies versus the entire british empire. britain only invested less than a third of its army, and yes they did try to win the battle with what soldier's they had, but when the king discovered that the cost of america was going to be greater than the cost of the colonies itself, they retreated. this was not a military defeat.
this was britain saying, "here, you can have it."
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 6, 2006 11:04:59 GMT -5
basicially, i am just trying to get across to all you patriots out there that america is not as powerful as we think we are. we do not have a tenth of the manpower as does a nation like china, japan or even russia. however, we do have more resources, and othre countries do not have capabilities to produce weapons. however, this does not mean we are not invincible...look at september eleventh. you do not need a soldier with a machine gun, a tank, or a jet, or even a bomb to destroy a country.
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Post by justaman on May 6, 2006 14:15:19 GMT -5
Yes, but if He didn't want us to exist then we would have been easily been handled... yet by some miracle we were able to make this country. And we must be aware of enemies that threaten to disorient us. Osama knew by flying those planes into those towers into the buildings we'd question Muslims much more in this country.
Now a group comes up, taking advantage of the problems we're having now and saying "It's the sinners fault." We won't be the British who underestimated them.
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Post by wkufan on May 6, 2006 17:33:55 GMT -5
actually, we did not win the revolutionary war. britain was not interested in the colonies anymore. Eh? Yeah, the USA won it's independence. It wasn't totally on the battlefield, but the goal was achieved regardless. I would say it's safe to say we lost more battles than won. Britian was interested in the colonies--not sure where you got that--but eventually it had bigger fish to fry, namely an expanding war with France. They needed their resources concentrating on the French, not us. The US just wanted independence, the French wanted to destroy Britian. Makes all the difference in the world. Basically I'm in agreement with some of your thought on this. However, I have to question your logic about Japan. I'm guessing they would need a couple of decades to build a reasonable threat to the US--or to anyone else for that matter. They essentially have no Army or Navy to speak of. If we were to go head to head with China and Russia, I don't see any way out of not using tactical and strategic nukes. China could field an Army of around 200 million if it needed. What I find concerning about our defensive doctrine is we rely too much on complicated technology. It takes too long to replace. It takes about 10 years to build a nuclear sub or carrier, almost a year to build a fighter jet. We don't even have the ability to replace downed B-52s since they haven't been produced since the early 70's. This suggests to me, if the balloon ever goes up--as they used to say during the cold war--there won't be a hesistation to use nukes. I'm assuming because the conflict will be over in minutes--thus, there's not an issue about worrying about quick replacement of military material--in US theory. Consider the Soviet Union's and Red Chinese military doctrine. In WW2, the Germans wanted to focus on "super weapons"--weapons that took alot of time with research and replacement. Complicated to maintain. The Russians took note of this. Yeah, the Tiger tank was a good one, but there were only so many T-34 Russian tanks it could shoot. The Germans were overwhelmed by numbers--you couldn't shoot them fast enough to stop them. Russia and China both practices the "horde" method of attack. China in Korea, just like Russia in WW2, sent thousands of unarmed men in frontal assualts. Those who had rifles and were killed, the next unarmed man was expected to pick up the weapon and continue with the charge. There's just so many you can kill before your weapon melts. The loses aren't material, only that the attack presses on. Both Russia and China still believe in this military doctrine of overwhelming force. I think our military clearly knows this and will use, without regard, at least, tactical nukes. But if this doesn't work, we have no real capacity of replacement. So be prepared to take your Model 94 Winchester into battle with you.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 6, 2006 22:28:02 GMT -5
yeah...but i don't know if would be fighting for the u.s. for example, what if the world were fighting a war against the united states for moral reasons? what if we (our political powers) did something wrong........?
have you ever considered standing against your own nation FOR god? i would stand against america, not neccesarily for the same reasons, but because i am a conscience human being.
i think my place in 'war' would be determined on the cause. i examine the right/wrong on the issue and for what i believe in.
i do not fight for the sake of a flag.
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Post by wkufan on May 7, 2006 0:14:14 GMT -5
yeah...but i don't know if would be fighting for the u.s. for example, what if the world were fighting a war against the united states for moral reasons? what if we (our political powers) did something wrong........? have you ever considered standing against your own nation FOR god? i would stand against america, not neccesarily for the same reasons, but because i am a conscience human being. i think my place in 'war' would be determined on the cause. i examine the right/wrong on the issue and for what i believe in. i do not fight for the sake of a flag. I not sure how any country defines "moral issues". I'm not sure there's been a case of any country going to war for a "moral cause"--although there's been plenty to tout this in propaganda after it starts. I think you go to war for commerce reasons, territory expansion, perceived or real threat, an attack/declaration or survival-- forced to fight in order to survive. I can't really think of a war we've been involved in based on "moral" elements. Before you cite the Civil War and slavery, slavery was part of that, but not as much as the fact states seceded on the issue of states' rights. If slavery were the predominate issue, then you'd have to wonder why the "Proclaimation of Emancipation" only freed slaves in those states in rebellion. The states considered border states and did not officially secede, like Missouri, Kentucky and Maryland, slavery was perfectly legal until the end of the war--hence, they were exempt from this proclamation. This country stands for more than any politician--right or wrong. It stands primiarily for Liberty as defined under the tenents of equal protection under our laws and our legal tradition. I can tell you I'll choose God over any country, but taking arms against my country is not an option. It'd have to be something really threatening to even consider. This country has violated my personal moral code for sometime, like condoning the murdering of innocent children. We'll be judged (if not being so already) by God for this horrible transgression. Our system of government is designed to be addressed in a legal forum, not battlefield. I'm not sure God has given us authority to violently address this. Vengeance belongs to God, not man. Being a "conscience human being" is not really worth that much--in my opinion. How many conscience human beings were watching their Jewish neighbors hauled off in Nazi Germany? Surely there are conscience human beings in Cambodia when the Kahmer Rouge were chopping hundreds of thousands to pieces. The 20 million Stalin had executed and the 80 million Mao Tse Tung killed, you have to wonder where the conscience humans were? In terms of history, the USA is nowhere near this point. And it's a country worthy of our personal sacrifice.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 7, 2006 3:01:32 GMT -5
well, like you said, it depends on what you mean by national, 'moral' issues. personally, i see america as a nation on the slippery slope to theocracy, and that is more dangerous than any holocaust. also, i strongly, strongly, strongly disagree that wars are not fought in the name of religion. i agree that most current wars have been fought over social issues, economics, and expansion...but in the long run, over history, most wars were decared on others' in the name of god. you should agree with me, actually, especially if you see the bible as inerrantly true. after all, the bible is filled to the brim with wars in the name of religion. hundreds, or more....
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Post by wkufan on May 7, 2006 13:33:50 GMT -5
well, like you said, it depends on what you mean by national, 'moral' issues. personally, i see america as a nation on the slippery slope to theocracy, and that is more dangerous than any holocaust. also, i strongly, strongly, strongly disagree that wars are not fought in the name of religion. i agree that most current wars have been fought over social issues, economics, and expansion...but in the long run, over history, most wars were decared on others' in the name of god. you should agree with me, actually, especially if you see the bible as inerrantly true. after all, the bible is filled to the brim with wars in the name of religion. hundreds, or more.... I can't think of that many wars created in the name of God, religion--yes, but God no. With the exception of those marked in the Old Testament, any war over the last couple of thousand years, that I recall, never involved the idea of God. The idea of "fighting for God" was an after thought, a point made latter. Not as the rationale for going to war. The Crusades had nothing to do with God--it was about the Roman Catholic church wanting to expand it's political and economic clout. It used God later as an excuse to justify their means. Even the Germans in WW2 used the motto "God is with us". But they didn't use that as a means of invading every country surrounding them. Their ruse was "living space". Had the German country actually known God and was for God and God for them, they would have never gone to war in the first place. I'm not any where near being fearful of the US being a "theocracy". The US is and never was any where near this. It's political and cultural background is based on morals predicated on Judeo-Christian ethic (in other words, an individual as the liberty to chose without government interference), but it's never been and won't be a theocracy. I really don't care how or what a person worships--I do from the stand point that those who are enemies of God will perish. But that's what freedom of religion is about. That's the right of an individual. I don't see where anyone has an inherent right to demand a person worship any particular "god". However, this country was based on Judeo-Christian moralistic laws and that's where I take exception. But I would gladly take up arms for any loyal American--Muslim, Buddist, atheist, what have you--for their right to worship. In the same token, I reserve the right (and command by my Lord) to share the truth to these persons. I won't ask them to accept this truth by the muzzle of a rifle, but with compassion and love for the lost. Just don't ask me to betray our political and cultural tradition laid out by our founding fathers.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 7, 2006 14:12:17 GMT -5
a very intelligent reply, wkufan, and i doubt you care but you've earned my respect. i only disagree with one minor thing, and i think its because you may be a protestant. you said that the crusades never involved god, but the roman catholic church only tried to expand its theocratic boundaries. however, what do you make of the war on islam? the roman catholic church seized jerusalem, a holy city of jews and christians alike, from the muslims.
my question is, if this never happened, what do you think the 'middle east' would be like today? surely, all the wars and battles were done so in the name of god. otherwise, i see no point in claiming jerusalem.
i think its a sticky situation, and we are all entitled to our views...i just wanted you to know you defended yourself well.
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Post by wkufan on May 7, 2006 19:23:47 GMT -5
a very intelligent reply, wkufan, and i doubt you care but you've earned my respect. i only disagree with one minor thing, and i think its because you may be a protestant. you said that the crusades never involved god, but the roman catholic church only tried to expand its theocratic boundaries. however, what do you make of the war on islam? the roman catholic church seized jerusalem, a holy city of jews and christians alike, from the muslims. my question is, if this never happened, what do you think the 'middle east' would be like today? surely, all the wars and battles were done so in the name of god. otherwise, i see no point in claiming jerusalem. i think its a sticky situation, and we are all entitled to our views...i just wanted you to know you defended yourself well. I wasn't implying that the Crusaders never used "God" as a rallying point, only this wasn't the main consideration initially--at least in my opinion. Alot of it had to do with territory expansion, and as a means to consolidate and distract waring French and English factions within the "empire" over land grants in Europe. It's true, one reason to "rally the troops" by Pope Urban II was "because Christian folk in the middle east were being killed by the Turks", but I don't think that was the true motivation--it was just the excuse. While it's true they seized Jerusalem, I think it had more to do with ego, religious relics, and booty rather than a higher calling of "freeing" Jerusalem. That was the key military thought in those days, capturing cities and capitals. I'm assuming you mean if the Crusades never happened. That's a tough one. That's pretty hard to say. Islam was founded about 400 years before the Crusades. Do you mean in today's terms? If that's what you mean, I don't think we're at war with Islam. If we were, just about everyone would be drafted into the military. There's 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Right now, our standing combatant Army is relatively small. If you mean in "Crusade" terms and days, I don't think invading countries based on religion is prudent nor moral. This is something better left up to God, rather than man--because the issue is always clouded with the greedy motivations of men. I've enjoyed our exchange and dialog. It's obvious you've had these items in consideration for a long time and you've had some very interesting observations.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 8, 2006 2:49:38 GMT -5
ditto. i see we share a differene in opinion, but that is what makes this country--and life in general--so great. anyway, i am not sure where you got the date for islam, unless you are making reference to mohammed. however, when i compare the history of islam with that of the bible, i only see a plausible date of three thousand years--a little more or less, but slightly younger than judaism. christianity is infant, in comparison, to the other two sister, western religions.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 20, 2006 16:04:20 GMT -5
We have turned our back as fighter of justice... and that is why God has turned his back on us... blaming the sinners is easy, asking for forgivance of our behavior is not... Didn't the Bible say, "I will never leave you nor forsake you"?
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Post by wkufan on May 20, 2006 16:45:55 GMT -5
ditto. i see we share a differene in opinion, but that is what makes this country--and life in general--so great. anyway, i am not sure where you got the date for islam, unless you are making reference to mohammed. however, when i compare the history of islam with that of the bible, i only see a plausible date of three thousand years--a little more or less, but slightly younger than judaism. christianity is infant, in comparison, to the other two sister, western religions. Oops, sorry I missed this. But when I was saying "400" years, I was referencing that Islam was in existence about that long before the Crusades ever began. I believe Islam started about 600 AD--thereabouts.
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Post by wkufan on May 20, 2006 16:48:11 GMT -5
We have turned our back as fighter of justice... and that is why God has turned his back on us... blaming the sinners is easy, asking for forgivance of our behavior is not... Didn't the Bible say, "I will never leave you nor forsake you"? In what context?
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 20, 2006 16:55:56 GMT -5
Jesus said it. And I take that to mean that he will never turn his back on us, no matter what.
Besides, feminism and homosexuality is not what is poisoning America. The lack of tolerance and the corruption in the government are doing that.
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Post by wkufan on May 20, 2006 17:04:48 GMT -5
Jesus said it. And I take that to mean that he will never turn his back on us, no matter what. Besides, feminism and homosexuality is not what is poisoning America. The lack of tolerance and the corruption in the government are doing that. But what was Jesus talking about in relationship to what? Can you cite the passage, please? I'm assuming you mean in the context of an individual repenting, being born again and making Jesus their Lord. Yes, that's correct. Once a person is truly born again, their heart changes, the desires of the old self fall away. I'd say what is poisioning us is the complete surrender to sin in this nation coupled with the forsaking of God. Psalm 9:17 (King James Version) 17The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.If there's an issue of government, it's merely a reflection on society in general. Israel is a prime example of what happens when a country "forgets" God. The Scriptures are replete with descriptions of what happened when they sinned against God--He punished them. When they repented, He blessed them. This has happened over and over. Israel never seemed to learn--just like our country.
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shangxin
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"Who is this lady?"
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Post by shangxin on May 20, 2006 19:11:36 GMT -5
Perhaps this verse more aptly describes what I am trying to say:
Genesis 18:31-31
31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for the twenty's sake.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for the ten's sake.
What I am trying to say is that God isn't going to turn away from us even when we do bad things--he's still going to be there for us.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 21, 2006 20:47:03 GMT -5
shangxin, apparently only christians with the 'spirit of god' residing in them have the ability to interpret scriptures in the right context...haha...this is their way out of being proven wrong.
also, wkufan, islam is actually older than christianity, in this order are western religions oldest to youngest: judaism, islam, christianity. islam was much like a 'myth' to the extent that the religion was verbalized from generation to generation. now, before you rebuttle, myths are not neccesarily false...just verbal versus written.
this is also practiced in judeo-christianity, more so in ancient judaism. if i am not mistaken, pharisees were verbal keepers of god's law while saducees were keepers of the written word. both appear in the bible.
this is why jesus condemned the pharisees so, because they spoke the law, but did not always practice what they preached.
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Post by wkufan on May 22, 2006 12:54:27 GMT -5
also, wkufan, islam is actually older than christianity, in this order are western religions oldest to youngest: judaism, islam, christianity. islam was much like a 'myth' to the extent that the religion was verbalized from generation to generation. now, before you rebuttle, myths are not neccesarily false...just verbal versus written. . Are you sure about this? The Koran directly references Christianity and Christians. Makes reference that Jesus was a "prophet".
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Post by wkufan on May 22, 2006 12:56:09 GMT -5
Perhaps this verse more aptly describes what I am trying to say: Genesis 18:31-31 31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for the twenty's sake. 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for the ten's sake. What I am trying to say is that God isn't going to turn away from us even when we do bad things--he's still going to be there for us. I think from an individual's stand point and that person is saved, He won't turn away. But as a nation, I believe a nation will be punished or judged.
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Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 14:55:17 GMT -5
Perhaps this verse more aptly describes what I am trying to say: Genesis 18:31-31 31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for the twenty's sake. 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for the ten's sake. What I am trying to say is that God isn't going to turn away from us even when we do bad things--he's still going to be there for us. I think from an individual's stand point and that person is saved, He won't turn away. But as a nation, I believe a nation will be punished or judged. In other words, they just want to think that god loves them more because they are "zomg supar special." He won't turn away from you but he'll sure as hell leave everyone else to rot. This honestly sounds like self-preservation at work, which is healthy and normal, of course, but still rather simplistic. Good old "it can't happen to me" syndrome. I know the fundies are fixing to jump all over this, but just to put the question out there: yes, I know you believe you are "saved" but what if you are NOT? I know you think you're doing what god wants but what if you thought WRONG? Don't tell me you're not wrong...what if you ARE?
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