|
Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 9:41:25 GMT -5
With that in mind, can somebody repost all or some of this article? I'm very, very interested. In part because I'd love to know who thinks of marriage while masturbating and because it would be interesting to see how this magazine approaches it. I can then offer my objective comments.
|
|
|
Post by biblethumper on May 22, 2006 10:26:03 GMT -5
Actually, the Biblical word for adultery, fornication etc etc brings the idea of ANY sexual pleasure outside of marriage as a SIN.
THAT is a Biblical Fact, as the Koine word (porneia) clearly teaches.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on May 22, 2006 10:32:10 GMT -5
shangxin,
The context for the verse about working uncleaness is in Ephesians 4:17-21.
The verse about cutting your hand off if it causes you to sin is in the context of sexual sin. Just before Jesus mentions this He is saying if a man looks at a woman to lust after her he has already committed adultery with her in his heart (Matthew 5:27-30). The context is adultery and sexual sin.
|
|
shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
|
Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 10:45:16 GMT -5
I understand, but Jesus was using the sexual sin as an EXAMPLE of sin altogether. Thus, the hand-cutting was also an example of sin as a whole.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on May 22, 2006 13:16:09 GMT -5
shangxin,
You are correct but both sin as a whole and the specific sin both apply.
|
|
|
Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 15:01:00 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for:
A. The article in question.
B. Jeff's famous proof that masturbation causes teen pregnancy and porn addiction.
C. People to drop the ridiculous "hand causing you to sin" quote because it's not talking about what you think it's talking about, and even if it is, I don't care.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on May 22, 2006 15:18:39 GMT -5
Yes, Val we know, don't bother you with the facts when your mind is already made up.
|
|
|
Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 15:21:26 GMT -5
Yes, Val we know, don't bother you with the facts when your mind is already made up. Don't quote for me what the Bible says about masturbation and I won't quote for you what The Fountainhead says about it. Or Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, for that matter. Jeff's points actually had some merit if he could back them up. By the way, it wasn't just directed at him. Anyone else, feel free to chime in. He supposedly has scientific evidence to indicate that masturbation is physiologically unhealthy. I have scientific evidence to indicate that it reduces the risk of prostate cancer.
|
|
|
Post by biblethumper on May 22, 2006 17:11:35 GMT -5
VAL Said: C. People to drop the ridiculous "hand causing you to sin" quote because it's not talking about what you think it's talking about, and even if it is, I don't care
I have to agree; using that Scripture is NOT speaking of masturbation....it's a general statement use din the Word by Jesus referring to sin, ANY sin, in our lives; not SPECIFICALLY masturbation, though it would INCLUDE it.
That said, people who masturbate are d**ned, because no pervert will enter the Kingdom of God
Why?
Again:
Actually, the Biblical word for adultery, fornication etc etc brings the idea of ANY sexual pleasure outside of marriage as a SIN.
THAT is a Biblical Fact, as the Koine word (porneia) clearly teaches.
|
|
shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
|
Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 17:15:44 GMT -5
Fornication and adultery are not masturbation.
Fornication means sex. Adultery means cheating on a spouse or lover. They are NOT interchangeable with masturbation in any way.
|
|
|
Post by Kerrigan on May 22, 2006 18:20:58 GMT -5
Matthew 5:27-28 says, "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."
The Greek Word for lust is epithumeow and it literally means: to have sexual interest or desire in someone.
Don't think anyone can masturbate without doing that.
The Greek Word for fornicator is: porneia (where we get the English word pornography and it literally means: one who practices sexual immorality. It is a general term for sexual immorality, not just sex before marriage. So, including in fornication is oral sex, anal sex, masturbation, regular sex, or anything else sexual...
|
|
shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
|
Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 18:25:20 GMT -5
But you still have to prove that masturbation is wrong. You can't say this Bible quote proves anything--it only lists sexual sins (fornication and the Greek equivalent). Can you prove masturbation is among those sexual sins?
And yes, people masturbate all the time without lusting for someone or something. They often do it to relieve sexual feelings or just to feel good. They CAN think about things if they want, but it is not a pre-requisite.
Also, how is anal sex a sin?
|
|
|
Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 18:41:26 GMT -5
And yes, people masturbate all the time without lusting for someone or something. They often do it to relieve sexual feelings or just to feel good. They CAN think about things if they want, but it is not a pre-requisite. DING DING DING, tell the woman what she's won! Seriously, guys, if you think that everybody masturbates out of lust, you're wrong. If you think that you can't have an orgasm without lust, you're ignorant. Because it doesn't make babies. Duh. Wow, Thumper, we agreed. I think the world just imploded.
|
|
|
Post by biblethumper on May 22, 2006 18:50:50 GMT -5
That isn't my quote.... it's Shang's
|
|
|
Post by biblethumper on May 22, 2006 18:54:51 GMT -5
Vine's:
Fornication, Fornicator [Noun]
porneia is used
(a) of "illicit sexual intercourse," in John_8:41; Acts_15:20,29; Acts_21:25; 1_Cor_5:1;
1_Cor_6:13,18; 2_Cor_12:21; Gal_5:19; Eph_5:3; Col_3:5; 1_Thess_4:3; Rev_2:21; Rev_9:21; in the plural in 1_Cor_7:2; in Matt_5:32; Matt_19:9 it stands for, or includes, adultery; it is distinguished from it in Matt_15:19; Mark_7:21;
(b) metaphorically, of "the association of pagan idolatry with doctrines of, and professed adherence to, the Christian faith," Rev_14:8; Rev_17:2,4; Rev_18:3; Rev_19:2; some suggest this as the sense in Rev_2:21.
|
|
|
Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 19:17:49 GMT -5
VAL Said: C. People to drop the ridiculous "hand causing you to sin" quote because it's not talking about what you think it's talking about, and even if it is, I don't care I have to agree;[/i][/u] [/quote]
|
|
|
Post by biblethumper on May 22, 2006 20:06:10 GMT -5
Oh, I thought you were talking about the "other" issue.... my bad. Oh, btw Val...chekc the "To All Homosexuals Everywhere" Thread where you accuse me of a copy and paste article. Just thought you should know I wrote the article So, I copied and pasted my own work
|
|
|
Post by HSTN2983 on May 23, 2006 1:51:50 GMT -5
hmm. logic would lead me to conclude that it is the people who do not masturbate are the ones who become rapists, etc.
|
|
|
Post by valentine on May 23, 2006 13:15:40 GMT -5
hmm. logic would lead me to conclude that it is the people who do not masturbate are the ones who become rapists, etc. I highly doubt there's any correlation whatsoever but I haven't researched the matter enough to say. Hey, speaking of research, looks like they couldn't find any.
|
|
|
Post by biblethumper on May 23, 2006 13:53:15 GMT -5
hmm. logic would lead me to conclude that it is the people who do not masturbate are the ones who become rapists, etc. HSTN.... you're defending the sinful act of masturbation with a statement like that? umm.....
|
|
|
Post by Josh Parsley on May 23, 2006 14:06:43 GMT -5
Masturbaters need to pull up thier pants, tighten thier belt, and exercise some self control!
|
|
|
Post by HSTN2983 on May 24, 2006 2:54:44 GMT -5
valentine, i am simply taking the word of a close friend who is in the master of psychology program at university of alabama. he said to take a glimpse at serial killer, rapists, etc. [profiling]
there is, of course, no way to say that chronic masturbators are celebate christian psycho-murderers...that's ridiculous...i was simply stating the obvious.
|
|
|
Post by cervyy on May 24, 2006 13:01:43 GMT -5
I am still waiting on someone to comment on wet dreams which were brought up on page two!!
HMMM??? Wet dreams, orgasms in thine sleep ... unconscious lusting ... WELL??? What the "Christians" got to say about it??
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on May 24, 2006 22:26:48 GMT -5
Masturbaters need to pull up thier pants, tighten thier belt, and exercise some self control! MMm Hmm! Amen! As far as defining anything at all is wrong, Val, by what standard would you use or accept to determine whether something is wrong? If I give any reason at all, you will reason it away. If something causes pain, you will say that is subjective, if it is wrong because God says, you don't care, if it was wrong because society said it was wrong you would rebel. This issue comes all the back to our presuppositions, our starting point for knowing anything. Val, how do you determine whether something, anything, is right or wrong? Could you give me a list of things you think are wrong? (I might not be able to answer responses as I will be out of town for the weekend)
|
|
|
Post by valentine on May 25, 2006 7:58:07 GMT -5
Miles, once again you're avoiding the question. I wasn't the one who purported that masturbation causes porn addiction and teen pregnancy. If you didn't want me to ask you where you got that information, Jeff, you shouldn't have made such a ridiculous statement when you obviously had no proof. You guys accuse me of caring only about science and not about "morality," but think about what you just did. You essentially made something up in order to prove your claim and the other members are treating it as fact. I assume you believe that the scientific world is manifested through god, or something like that. If god makes science possible, then should there not be scientific evidence to support that masturbation is harmful? Trust me--if there was, you would have found it. There is an abundancy of research about this topic; I have only scratched the surface in my reading because I'm not particularly interested in it, but I have only found beneficial results of masturbation. If you really think you can just ignore that and substitute your own contradictory conclusions, you are not worth arguing with because you will just keep making things up, but let this statement stand as witness to how you guys operate.
To answer your question, because unlike some members here I do not avoid valid points, you'll notice that I have yet to make a comment in this thread claiming masturbation as "wrong" or "right." Whether masturbation is morally "wrong/right" for you is a question that you must answer. I can help you but the ultimate decision is yours. Besides, feeling intense guilt from any activity because they see it as "wrong" will probably outweigh the benefits of said activity. I do not know every board member's personal answer to this question and I do not care. The fact of the matter, and the point that I will dispute, is that masturbation is not physiologically harmful. Now can it be psychologically harmful if addressed in unhealthy ways, as some of you board members have done? Certainly. Telling a child they will go to hell for doing something that feels good will definitely cause them problems. But masturbation, in and of itself, has no ill effects. If you choose to believe there is something morally wrong with it, that is your choice, but that's not what I'm arguing for.
I will never change your personal feelings about an issue. I will expose your ignorant misconceptions about said issue. Masturbation does not cause teenage pregnancy. If there was any correlation whatsoever, nearly every teenage girl in this world would currently be pregnant. You can have orgasms without thought/will/lust/whatever. Need I bring up rape, especially male rape? Or is the idea that a straight man can be forced to orgasm by another man just a bit too disturbing for you all? These are the issues that I am seeking to get you guys to let go of--if you wish to believe in your narrow minded worldview, by all means continue to do so, but do so with full knowledge of the facts.
I've already answered how I determine if something is right or wrong, as well as given you a comprehensive list of all the things I believe to be wrong, but I will do so again for those with short memories. Something is wrong if it violates the rights of another. Meaning, if it occurs without informed consent of all parties involved. I consider anything that falls under that category morally unacceptable.
|
|
shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
|
Post by shangxin on May 25, 2006 11:52:39 GMT -5
Good response, valentine. What people don't realize is that feeling guilt over masturbation is a SOCIAL conditioning. In one country, children are allowed to touch themselves in public (I forget at the moment but I believe it starts with an "M.") If they don't feel guilt, and people in America do, one can naturally conclude that society dictates values and instills guilt. As someone who knows what she is talking about personally, feeling guilt is not the SAME as being guilty. I have felt guilt for things that I was TAUGHT was wrong, and I look back and marvel at the human ability to produce emotions that have no real cause other than instilled conditioning from superiors.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on May 25, 2006 13:27:31 GMT -5
A masturbator today is a homosexual tomorrow.
That is how Ted Bundy got his start too. All you masturbators and porn addicts may be the future Ted Bundy's of America. Isn't that great?
|
|
|
Post by valentine on May 25, 2006 13:35:47 GMT -5
A masturbator today is a homosexual tomorrow. Dear god, please save me from your followers. Seriously, will this ignorance ever end? Masturbation does not make you homosexual any more than it makes you heterosexual. Sources, please. Evidence. You can start by backing up Jeff's claims on page one that have yet to be backed up, and get ignored every time I bring them up. Again, to all reading this: pay attention to who backs up their arguments and who makes outlandish statements and ignores factual evidence. Take a good, long look and decide if you really want to trust people who say such asinine things.
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on May 25, 2006 15:11:14 GMT -5
It is a fact. When a person masturbates they are having sex with themselves. That is having sex with a member of the same sex.
I never read Jeff's post carefully nor did I agree to back up his claims.
|
|
shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
|
Post by shangxin on May 25, 2006 21:27:31 GMT -5
Having sex is by definition engaging in sexual activities with ANOTHER PERSON. The ignorance around here is baffling. Do any of you know ANYTHING about sex at ALL?
Even if masturbation DID equal sex, having sex with the same gender does not make one homosexual. To be homosexual you have to be attracted to members of the same sex and want to fraternize romantically/sexually with them. Please, guys, open a book, go to a reputable webiste, but DON'T rely on a Bible that says NOTHING about the kind of stuff posted above.
|
|