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Post by valentine on May 25, 2006 21:31:29 GMT -5
Micah, I have an itsy-bitsy question for you.
If I were to have sex with ShangXin, does that make me homosexual?
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Post by HDmatt on May 25, 2006 22:47:12 GMT -5
The ignorance around here is baffling. Do any of you know ANYTHING about sex at ALL? Even if masturbation DID equal sex, having sex with the same gender does not make one homosexual. To be homosexual you have to be attracted to members of the same sex and want to fraternize romantically/sexually with them. DON'T rely on a Bible that says NOTHING about the kind of stuff posted above. Wow, I've read it all.......doing the deed isn't enough to get classification, you have to first desire so in your heart........reminds me of Jesus saying that lust is the same as adultery in the heart, which of course slams immorality & masturbation, it is impossible to masturbate w/o some inclination......what is it part of the job? a goal in life to be attained? nay my friends it is fulfillment of perversion. The Bible I will quote which says SOMETHING about this......1 Cor7:1 it is good for a man not to TOUCH a woman. You would be looney to think God didn't have a high standard for marriage...........next verse, but to avoid fornication (sexual anything before marriage) every man should have his own wife, and every woman should have her own husband. So in recap, God points out we should abstain from anything sexual until marriage, if ya haven't, repent! and trust in Christ...........I have yet to find a topic the Bible doesn't at least have a principal on.
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Post by HDmatt on May 25, 2006 22:54:20 GMT -5
Good response, valentine. What people don't realize is that feeling guilt over masturbation is a SOCIAL conditioning. In one country, children are allowed to touch themselves in public (I forget at the moment but I believe it starts with an "M.") If they don't feel guilt, and people in America do, one can naturally conclude that society dictates values and instills guilt. As someone who knows what she is talking about personally, feeling guilt is not the SAME as being guilty. I have felt guilt for things that I was TAUGHT was wrong, and I look back and marvel at the human ability to produce emotions that have no real cause other than instilled conditioning from superiors. I would love to keep that quote intact because it blends so beautifully..........Let us not forget or in case we didn't know it......AMERICA IS A CHRISTIAN BASED NATION ............George Washington was Methodist, prayed, read his Bible, loved the Lord, the Ten Commandments were held high! Abe Lincoln got the gov't to issue a prayer of repentance in 1863 to the ppl of this country, two days later Stonewall Jackson was accidentally shot by his own men, the tide of the war changed, If we forget God, God may forget us.........We need to humble ourself before God b4 we make Him any madder! You call it social conditioning, I call it some nations were pagan, BUT the United States is still the greatest nation on earth......if ya want to go to a country that has less freedom & less opportunity for peace, truth, Godliness(the American way) then go to sodom, gomorrah, (amsterdam) please feel free.
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Post by cervyy on May 25, 2006 23:30:10 GMT -5
I would love to keep that quote intact because it blends so beautifully..........Let us not forget or in case we didn't know it......AMERICA IS A CHRISTIAN BASED NATION ............George Washington was Methodist, prayed, read his Bible, loved the Lord, the Ten Commandments were held high! Abe Lincoln got the gov't to issue a prayer of repentance in 1863 to the ppl of this country, two days later Stonewall Jackson was accidentally shot by his own men, the tide of the war changed, If we forget God, God may forget us.........We need to humble ourself before God b4 we make Him any madder! You call it social conditioning, I call it some nations were pagan, BUT the United States is still the greatest nation on earth......if ya want to go to a country that has less freedom & less opportunity for peace, truth, Godliness(the American way) then go to sodom, gomorrah, (amsterdam) please feel free. Y'all OA preachers are all hot to trot about the First Amendment when it you don't get it's benefits, well, it applies HERE too. Okay, this country was based on some Christian-ness ... What did those same Bible reading founders put in the first amendment? Freedom of religion, meaning of course for the slow "Christians" is that more then one religion is be held here in the UNITED STATES of this here America. Yer gonna have to get used to other ideas clearly not your own. I REALLY dispise most og y'alls on this board, but I know yer free to be in this country and I think it's great that way. HOWEVER, when you get fundamentalists who want to make this a one religion country, I really wanna go personally go and give each and every one of y'alls a smack on the head. You don't have to like it, but by law, you can NOT declare this a "Christian" country and impose your own beliefs on others. Go humble yourself in someother country then. And sorry, the American way is capitalism bub. Pure and unadultered MONEY LOVING.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 26, 2006 1:02:01 GMT -5
hehe. christians are good capitalists. look at 'left behind'...christian t-shirts, almost copyright infringement to make it appeal to the secular community...gigantic churches with comfortable seating and state-of-the-art electronics.
wow. talk about money loving...
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Post by messengermicah on May 26, 2006 14:16:55 GMT -5
Amen guys! That's right America is a capitalist nation due to it's Christian roots. America is a capitalist country just like Jesus was a capitalist.
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Post by messengermicah on May 26, 2006 14:18:53 GMT -5
valentine,
If shangxin is a female and you had sex with her that would make you a homosexual. You would be having same (homo) sex.
I don't base my definition of homosexuality off of some politically correct definition that has to be constantly changed to make it fit the laws.
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Post by valentine on May 26, 2006 16:07:00 GMT -5
Micah, you are ignorant. If Wanderingtrekker had sex with me, would that make him a heterosexual?
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 27, 2006 7:31:20 GMT -5
jesus was a capitalist...?
i suppose that jesus was also a white american.
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Post by cervyy on May 27, 2006 12:52:11 GMT -5
I actually liked the two Left Behind movies (I own them in fact) ... didn't have time to read the books, there's like LOTS of them!
I'd like to note about them though, by whatever reason intentional, after the Rapture in the movies/books, we never really see any gays or lesbians around!! Could it be they were saved anyways?! Hehe, just wanted to point that out.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 27, 2006 14:34:06 GMT -5
valentine, If shangxin is a female and you had sex with her that would make you a homosexual. You would be having same (homo) sex. I don't base my definition of homosexuality off of some politically correct definition that has to be constantly changed to make it fit the laws. What does being politcially correct have to do with it? The Bible does not say "men who have sex with men are automatically homosexuals." The closest we get is "if a man lies with a man the way he lies with a woman, it is an abomination," which refers to either homosexuality as a whole or MODERN sodomy specifically--not that it matters, because that is not the REAL quote from the Hebrew texts. The real quote should go something like this: "If a man lies with a man in a woman's bed, it is an abomination." This stems from the fact that even if you are not lying with a woman in her bed, her bed was so culturally important that it didn't matter if you weren't having sex with her, it was still wrong to touch her bed in any way with anyone.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 28, 2006 11:14:54 GMT -5
shangxin, unfortunately, the bible does not have to write it in red all over walls for it to be a decree. people, christians and non-christians alike, share the misconception that if the bible does not speak about it then it is not condemned.
however, i have studied biblical texts for ten years--i am agnostic, let me remind you--and i know for a fact that the bible references all actions of culture, i.e. abortion, homosexuality, rape, incest, beastiality, murder, war, and all forms of criminality, etc. the list goes on. however, as you and i both know, just because a text forbids something...does not mean it is right.
let me add one last thing. half of the laws drawn up in the old testament are culture specific, and even generation (time) specific. short hair on women is forbidden by the bible, so does this mean seventy-five percent of christian women are going to hell? doubtul, even according to christian dogma. i believe it was also forbidden for a man to shave his beard. in this day and time, professionalism is marked by a suit, tie, and shaved face. piercings are forbidden in the bible, as well as tattoos, but you don't see a lot of christians [anymore] protesting these actions.
funny enough, tattoos and piercings have dwindled out as a social taboo within our lifetime. i can remember christians preaching that everyone with tattoos and piercings were hellbound. i rarely hear it mentioned anymore.
some things take time. homosexuality and abortion will be legal soon enough.
after all, it was a majority of christians who were the ones who opposed equal rights to women and african americans.
christians oppose social progress. period. they want the simple life, where they can justify killing adulterers and people like me--blasphemers.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 28, 2006 16:51:40 GMT -5
Well, I don't really agree with abortion, but I agree with you on the homosexuality thing.
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Post by newsong on May 28, 2006 17:35:51 GMT -5
No we do not fear man or your word. So in your estimation of knowing much you are wrong on that count. The bible says if you rememeber? We are to fear God and not man. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. If you dont fear God you have no wisdom at all. Wake up you truly are asleep even when awake.
Job 28:20 Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding? 21 Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air. 22 Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears. 23 God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof. 24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven; 25 To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure. 26 When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder: 27 Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out. 28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 28, 2006 20:47:48 GMT -5
What does fearing God have to do with anything though? I am saying that a lot of the sexual "knowlegde" stuff you guys claim isn't even FOUND in the Bible--you're own fanaticism is responsible for it. You claim that homosexuality is defined by sodomy, but the Bible doesn't even ADRESS that AT ALL, so where are you getting your PROOF to have the gall to claim that SCIENCE is wrong?
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Post by Miles Lewis on May 29, 2006 1:42:50 GMT -5
Shanxin said:
Ok, I'm going to do like Valentine said and take note of who has evidence to back up their claims. I am curious about this claim here. How did you come to this conclusion?
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Post by Miles Lewis on May 29, 2006 1:48:07 GMT -5
Valentine:
You're going to hate me for this, but... How do you know that standard to be true? On what grounds do you stand upon to make such a claim? (other than that "you like the standard")
(I'm not saying the standard is no good, I just want to know on what grounds you stand upon to say that.)
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Post by Miles Lewis on May 29, 2006 2:41:50 GMT -5
Here is Jeff's original comment: At the risk of sounding vulgar (which, let it be known, is not my intent) allow me to say this; if they are going to shed this kind of a light on masturbation...they might want to give parents the advice to give to their teens that if they keep it up, if they ever do get married their boys will be on viagra and their girls will be frustrated because their husbands can't live up to their perverse expectations. Also, it invites all sorts of wickedness and spiritual strongholds into your own home! And if you have the internet, I don't care what kind of 'firewalls' you have your son will find a way to bring pornography under your roof. Lust always, and without fail, STEALS what it promises to give. A hormonal young man may find momentary pleasure in self-gratification, but as his brain become more and more dependant on that, it becomes no longer gratifying and the desires soon move to pornography, then worse and violent porn, acting out upon his desires (sexual encounters, etc.) and conceivably sexually deviant crimes. And with a young woman...if she ever gets married...her husband will never live up to her warped expectations. That's IF she ever gets married...without first becoming a victim of some sexual crime, or contracting a deadly or sterilizing STD, or a single teen mom. In either case, male or female, the young person ends up objectifying themselves and whatever the object of their fantasy is. I wonder if the magazine that has published this article realizes the extreme gravity of what they are saying! Hey...By the way...I know that several years ago a Christian magazine came out with a pro-masturbation article...and Ron Luce, director of Teen Mania Ministries, rallied several other pastors and preachers and collectively wrote an article opposing what they said and rebuking the magazine. The same magazine published the rebuttal!!! So...There's no reason we couldn't raise our voices against it if there are people who are willing to contact some leaders and collectively put something together! I think if we look at Jeff's comments in context, he directly associated maturbation and porn. Because HE did that (rightly so) we need to judge his post in that context. Lust was the issue, not just the physical act of masturbation. Valentine asked where certain things could actually be backed up with some evidence. Val quotes Jeff and then says: (Red comments are mine)if they are going to shed this kind of a light on masturbation...they might want to give parents the advice to give to their teens that if they keep it up, if they ever do get married their boys will be on viagra and their girls will be frustrated because their husbands can't live up to their perverse expectations. A hormonal young man may find momentary pleasure in self-gratification, but as his brain become more and more dependant on that, it becomes no longer gratifying and the desires soon move to pornography, then worse and violent porn, acting out upon his desires (sexual encounters, etc.) and conceivably sexually deviant crimes. I think the article in the next post will cover thisAnd with a young woman...if she ever gets married...her husband will never live up to her warped expectations. That's IF she ever gets married...without first becoming a victim of some sexual crime, or contracting a deadly or sterilizing STD, or a single teen mom. I think Jeff here was saying that when you feed lust you desire more and desire more intensity and perversion, thereby leading to other things beside porn. ie. acting out fantasies. As far as being a victim of a crime, when you start living out these fantasies you put yourself in increasingly dangerous situations. I might be going out on limb here, but if you frequent drunken orgies, it should not surprise anyone if when someone decides to say "NO", the other party keeps on saying "YES", and then becomes the victim of rape or some sexual crime. Umm...want to explain where you got that data? Besides out of your head? Because I have never seen any evidence to indicate that masturbation causes these things. I guess if they say it on OAO, IT MUST BE TRUE!!! I apologize for raining on your preaching parade but somebody had to come in here and interrupt your, "I agree!" "Oh, yes, I agree, too!" "Wow, I completely agree!" If only for a change of pace, really.
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Post by Miles Lewis on May 29, 2006 3:03:46 GMT -5
I finally decided to do a little google search on the topic. I may not agree with everything this guy stands for, but I read most of the article and I thought it was pretty good. Even though masturbation is the topic, I think porn and masturbation are directly related. I only copied the "About the Author" part of the article, just follow the link to read the whole thing. For the article go to: www.obscenitycrimes.org/clineart.cfmI find it interesting that in his studies he concluded it was a progression. FIRST STEP - ADDICTION SECOND STEP - ESCALATION THIRD PHASE - DESENSITIZATION FOURTH PHASE - ACTING OUT SEXUALLY
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 29, 2006 7:19:24 GMT -5
the fourth phase can also be tied to repression of sexuality.
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Post by HDmatt on May 29, 2006 19:51:03 GMT -5
shang, the fear of God has to do with everything, if you tie up creation(u me trees, cows, etc. and say we are independent, it is against reason, the Bible states we must fear God because we are dependant on Him. He is INDEPENDENT of us. I just read this verse today I can't remember where it is! It is sweeeet, it says that God was before creation, and is upholding creation as we speak. Here is just one miniscule example{in scrimp(mississippi talk) their is a little placebo deal that eats away at the bacteria inside of the stomach in the shrimp. Shrimp can't survive, w/o that organism, organism likewise can't live outside shrimp. Who figured that out? Romans 1:17 says the righteousness(need it on the day of judgement) of God is revealed from faith to faith. SHANG YA GOTTA HAVE FAITH IN GOD! Please consider creation and how dependent we are(i can't even stop and start my heart at my convenience.....why would i want to lol) but consider how much fear(reverence,honor, glory) GOD DESERVES!!
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Post by biblethumper on May 29, 2006 20:32:40 GMT -5
Not sure who said it (too tired to check) but the masturbaters are also homosexuals is perfectly TRUE; I now use it to declare that those who masturbate are also guilty of homosexuality
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 30, 2006 3:11:59 GMT -5
i masturbate and am married [to a woman]. sheesh. who knew...i was a homosexual. i love men. i want to roll around in their feces too. heck, if you will, bring a few animals down so i can rape them too. i molest children as well. mmm. children.
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Post by biblethumper on May 30, 2006 9:38:17 GMT -5
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks; thus, I believe you completely, as you have just admitted to being a vile pervert (yeah, i know; you'll claim you weren't serious, but I believe that what you speak is either how you live consistently or what you would do sporadically, as from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks)
Hence, by your own admission, you're a vile pervert at heart, and the Bible says if you THINK IT you're guilty of it.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 31, 2006 1:00:08 GMT -5
biblethumper, if your thoughts are as guilty as sins, then you are all going to hell. why? you will sin without knowing it on your death bed before you can utter repentance. the above was sarcasm in response to an ignorant post, but i do not expect you to know and/or believe me....because you don't know me. the people who do know me, intimately, love me as i love them. they know the real me...the one you damn to hell in your heart and prayers.
i scoff at the idea that you, or any christian, seriously prays for strangers.
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Post by messengermicah on May 31, 2006 8:29:37 GMT -5
Dusty,
Where do you get the idea you can walk around sinning all the time without even knowing it?
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Post by biblethumper on May 31, 2006 8:54:24 GMT -5
biblethumper, if your thoughts are as guilty as sins, then you are all going to hell. why? you will sin without knowing it on your death bed before you can utter repentance. the above was sarcasm in response to an ignorant post, but i do not expect you to know and/or believe me....because you don't know me. the people who do know me, intimately, love me as i love them. they know the real me...the one you d**n to hell in your heart and prayers. i scoff at the idea that you, or any christian, seriously prays for strangers. Ahhh....So, then you must concede that YOU also do not us and how WE are known by those around US, right? Just giving you a taste of your own, HSTN
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 31, 2006 12:21:20 GMT -5
umm...no...i have seen jesse in action. i know your types, they are case studies by psychologists--and religious scholars.
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Post by Morluna on Jun 3, 2006 23:47:34 GMT -5
valentine, If shangxin is a female and you had sex with her that would make you a homosexual. You would be having same (homo) sex. I don't base my definition of homosexuality off of some politically correct definition that has to be constantly changed to make it fit the laws. What does being politcially correct have to do with it? The Bible does not say "men who have sex with men are automatically homosexuals." The closest we get is "if a man lies with a man the way he lies with a woman, it is an abomination," which refers to either homosexuality as a whole or MODERN sodomy specifically--not that it matters, because that is not the REAL quote from the Hebrew texts. The real quote should go something like this: "If a man lies with a man in a woman's bed, it is an abomination." This stems from the fact that even if you are not lying with a woman in her bed, her bed was so culturally important that it didn't matter if you weren't having sex with her, it was still wrong to touch her bed in any way with anyone. Oh wow, I've never seen that exact translation. I would be very interested to know more about this cultural importance of the woman's bed. Can you tell me more? That's awesome, and makes so much more sense.
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 4, 2006 9:52:38 GMT -5
also, did you know that it was western 'religious' civilization that started a woman's period (sorry, i would put the appropriate word, but i do not know how to spell it and i am too lazy to look it up, and thus contradicted myself by typing all this out. haha.), defecation, and sex as 'morally wrong?'
sex, defecation, and other natural acts used to be practiced in public...........
we [all] cringe at the very thought. its dirty, nasty, whatever...
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