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Post by biblethumper on May 18, 2006 15:00:02 GMT -5
I'm a subscriber to Strang Communication magazines....(Strang published Spirit Led Women, New Man, Charisma, etc etc)
Today, I opened this months's New Man Magazine, which I am now holding in front of me as I type this, and to my shock, here is presented, not false doctrine per se, but sexual immorality!
On page 31, in the article "Time To Talk About The M Word", it states concerning a parent speaking with his or her teen about masturbation:
"If their fantasies are of marriage while they are masturbating, and they don't feel guilty, don't impose guilt!"
End quote.
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 18, 2006 15:17:06 GMT -5
Yeah and if while fornicating they fantasize about marriage, and they don't feel guilty, don't impose guilt.... That is trash.
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Post by ejuliot on May 18, 2006 15:18:37 GMT -5
Yeah and if while fornicating they fantasize about marriage, and they don't feel guilty, don't impose guilt.... That is trash. LOL ;D
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Post by biblethumper on May 18, 2006 15:23:58 GMT -5
Amen! Trash is the right word!
Goes to show how the Charisma publishers have stooped down lower then hell itself
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Post by messengermicah on May 18, 2006 15:56:50 GMT -5
Good timing! I just received my last magazine of Charisma on my subscription. I was debating whether or not to renew and was leaning against it. Not at all surprising. More of the TBN easy believism. Trash indeed!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 18, 2006 16:17:03 GMT -5
*sigh* I'm so sick of all the Politically Correct garbage. Trying not to step on anyone's toes, let's make sure everyone FEELS loved, no one should be feeling guilty. Lord, please help us!
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Post by biblethumper on May 18, 2006 16:39:03 GMT -5
I only posted a part of the article... the whole things shows you how to introduce your teens to "proper" masturbation.
Disgusting.
Stephen Strang should be held accountable.
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Post by wkufan on May 18, 2006 17:28:25 GMT -5
Adultry is a sin. Lusting in one's heart is as well. That's what masterbation promotes--a ticket to judgment.
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Post by biblethumper on May 18, 2006 17:37:16 GMT -5
Amen, Wkufan!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 18, 2006 22:16:59 GMT -5
At the risk of sounding vulgar (which, let it be known, is not my intent) allow me to say this;
if they are going to shed this kind of a light on masturbation...they might want to give parents the advice to give to their teens that if they keep it up, if they ever do get married their boys will be on viagra and their girls will be frustrated because their husbands can't live up to their perverse expectations.
Also, it invites all sorts of wickedness and spiritual strongholds into your own home! And if you have the internet, I don't care what kind of 'firewalls' you have your son will find a way to bring pornography under your roof.
Lust always, and without fail, STEALS what it promises to give. A hormonal young man may find momentary pleasure in self-gratification, but as his brain become more and more dependant on that, it becomes no longer gratifying and the desires soon move to pornography, then worse and violent porn, acting out upon his desires (sexual encounters, etc.) and conceivably sexually deviant crimes.
And with a young woman...if she ever gets married...her husband will never live up to her warped expectations. That's IF she ever gets married...without first becoming a victim of some sexual crime, or contracting a deadly or sterilizing STD, or a single teen mom.
In either case, male or female, the young person ends up objectifying themselves and whatever the object of their fantasy is.
I wonder if the magazine that has published this article realizes the extreme gravity of what they are saying!
Hey...By the way...I know that several years ago a Christian magazine came out with a pro-masturbation article...and Ron Luce, director of Teen Mania Ministries, rallied several other pastors and preachers and collectively wrote an article opposing what they said and rebuking the magazine. The same magazine published the rebuttal!!!
So...There's no reason we couldn't raise our voices against it if there are people who are willing to contact some leaders and collectively put something together!
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Post by josh on May 19, 2006 0:39:25 GMT -5
I think its time for a good dose of holiness preaching.
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Post by valentine on May 19, 2006 10:14:13 GMT -5
if they are going to shed this kind of a light on masturbation...they might want to give parents the advice to give to their teens that if they keep it up, if they ever do get married their boys will be on viagra and their girls will be frustrated because their husbands can't live up to their perverse expectations. A hormonal young man may find momentary pleasure in self-gratification, but as his brain become more and more dependant on that, it becomes no longer gratifying and the desires soon move to pornography, then worse and violent porn, acting out upon his desires (sexual encounters, etc.) and conceivably sexually deviant crimes. And with a young woman...if she ever gets married...her husband will never live up to her warped expectations. That's IF she ever gets married...without first becoming a victim of some sexual crime, or contracting a deadly or sterilizing STD, or a single teen mom. Umm...want to explain where you got that data? Besides out of your head? Because I have never seen any evidence to indicate that masturbation causes these things. I guess if they say it on OAO, IT MUST BE TRUE!!! I apologize for raining on your preaching parade but somebody had to come in here and interrupt your, "I agree!" "Oh, yes, I agree, too!" "Wow, I completely agree!" If only for a change of pace, really.
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Post by messengermicah on May 19, 2006 11:22:54 GMT -5
The point of the thread was to point how hypocritical for a supposed Christian, bible believing magazine to condone the practice of masturbation. That was what the "preaching parade" was about.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 19, 2006 12:56:06 GMT -5
The point of the thread was to point how hypocritical for a supposed Christian, bible believing magazine to condone the practice of masturbation. That was what the "preaching parade" was about. Good way of dodging the bullet Micah. I concur Val. Of course they aren't going to address your points, that would break up their concurring "arguement".
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Post by messengermicah on May 19, 2006 13:48:02 GMT -5
I guess you are pretty much an expert on dodging bullets. You did a great job of dodging mine in the urban poverty thread. You only responded to one of the many issues I brought up.
Anyway, I did not read carefully through Jeff's thread, and besides how would I know where he got that information from?
Then again, most of it is pretty common sense, but most of the debates with "unchristians" on here revolve around things like trying to prove how do we know a straight line is actually straight.
It really was not much of a "bullet", just asking Jeff where he got his information from.
Masturbation is a sin according to the bible so shame on a Christian magazine for condoning it.
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Post by Morluna on May 20, 2006 8:02:30 GMT -5
No it is not. I would love to hear the verse for that. And don't give me the old "if your hand causes you to sin" line, because honestly... if he were talking about that specific ACTION involving your hand... wouldn't he just say that? You have no biblical evidence. Admit it.
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Post by biblethumper on May 20, 2006 9:26:01 GMT -5
The Bible does not say say the word "Trinity", yet we believe in the Trinity because of the pattern of the doctrine as found in Scripture.
In the same way, the absence of a particular word does not negate a particular pattern of thought as expressed in the Scripture.
Thus, you are correct in saying the word "masturbation" is not specifically penned in Scripture, yet the pattern to abstain is found in Scripture.
If you'd like, how about you list the Scriptures which show a pattern that it is OK and I will list the Scriptures which condemn it.
Take the challenge?
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Post by valentine on May 20, 2006 12:04:31 GMT -5
Then again, most of it is pretty common sense, but most of the debates with "unchristians" on here revolve around things like trying to prove how do we know a straight line is actually straight. Oh, excuse me! How dare I ask Jeff to back up his claim that masturbation causes teen pregnancy and porn addiction?? I mean, that's just common sense! I'd better repent. Profusely. Which he's yet to do. And if the Bible told you that eating ice cream was a sin, would you believe that, too?
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Post by messengermicah on May 20, 2006 13:13:19 GMT -5
The verse where Jesus talks about cutting your hand off if it causes you to sin comes right after He says if a man looks at a woman to lust after her he has already commited adultery with her in his heart (Matthew 5:27-30), so sorry heathens but the context is dealing with sexual sin. I know this generation of sinners is pretty wicked but you don't think this generation is the first to commit that sin do you?
Jesus also said that an evil eye (lustful eye-Matthew 5:28), evil thoughts, adulteries, and fornications come from the heart (Mark 7:21-22). What exactly do you think people are thinking about when they masturbate?
You do not know the bible nor the heart of God.
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Post by biblethumper on May 20, 2006 19:30:33 GMT -5
Anyone, secular or ot, who claims you can have an orgasm without any thinking involved is not deceived; they are, plainly, liars
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 20, 2006 19:38:43 GMT -5
Hold on, hold on guys. I'll cite some sources from you. I don't spend alot of time on the boards...please be patient.
Valentine, you're right, I'd better clarify... While masturbation can be a contributing factor to porn addiction, etc. I did not mean to insinuate that every single person who masturbates becomes a porn addict...
however, I still retain that it is an unwise practice and sinful... now please bear with me as I gather my sources...Thanks.
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Post by valentine on May 20, 2006 19:46:00 GMT -5
Valentine, you're right, I'd better clarify... While masturbation can be a contributing factor to porn addiction, etc. I did not mean to insinuate that every single person who masturbates becomes a porn addict... I also hope you weren't insinuating that every female who masturbates becomes pregnant as a teenager. And yes, please get those sources. I would be most interested to see where on earth you got those ideas. Biblethumper, I beg to differ.
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Post by biblethumper on May 20, 2006 20:06:57 GMT -5
Come on, Val... Really...seriously, be real here.
Those who fornicate, mastubate etc etc are THINKING.
THINKING come first; action is a RESULT of the THINKING.
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Post by valentine on May 20, 2006 20:09:03 GMT -5
Come on, Val... Really...seriously, be real here. Those who fornicate, mastubate etc etc are THINKING. THINKING come first; action is a RESULT of the THINKING. People masturbate as toddlers, Thumper. I bet you did, too. You just don't remember it. You be real here.
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Post by biblethumper on May 20, 2006 20:24:23 GMT -5
Yes, i know that toddlers do, because it's something of a law here in NB (Canad) that if a toddler doe sthis in daycare you cannot stop the child or say ANYTHING, even if the child does it in a public setting..sad, really.
Anyhow....
I'm speaking of masturbation as a form of sexual pleasure.
You know exactly what I'm talking about, anyway.
Forget your "toddler's do it, Thumper".
YOU be real.
Stick to the issue.
When a post-todler (like that term?), meaning teen/adult does it, it's not the same.
You know.
I know.
The Pope knows it.
So...
Again.
Masturbation is evil.
Sinful.
Wicked.
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Post by Morluna on May 20, 2006 21:05:00 GMT -5
I just have to get my two cents in here...
Thumper: Toddler's do it for sexual pleasure too. They may not have orgasms, but the pleasure is still there in a lesser, more child-like form. It feels good. Why else would they do it?
Ever hear of a thing called a wet dream? This is a totally and completely unconscious orgasm/sexual experience in general that occurs during sleep. The individual has absolutely no control over it. For males, the first wet dream marks entrance into puberty. Females obviously don't ejaculate or always even orgasm during sexual dreams, but they certainly experience the same kind of dreamstate sexual experiences from time to time. Should one repent after having one of these dreams? I can't see that there is any conscious thought involved, so how could it be a "sin?" Has one committed some kind of unconscious sin in having such a dream? Is there such a THING as an unconscious sin?
PS: I'm going to look up the context of the "cut off your hand" verse and debate you on that.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 21, 2006 20:39:24 GMT -5
masturbation is healthy.
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Post by Miles Lewis on May 21, 2006 23:34:04 GMT -5
I'd like to post more later but where the bible says "working uncleaness" I believe that be speaking of masturbation. As far as masturbation leading to more depravity (as opposed to less I suppose) ... Of course it does, I can speak from personal experience.
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Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 7:46:10 GMT -5
I'd like to post more later but where the bible says "working uncleaness" I believe that be speaking of masturbation. I really don't care what the Bible says about it. If you're speaking to somebody else, fine, but you won't convince me with that argument. For that reason, I'm not even going to attempt to refute this, because I don't care. Every psychological study on the subject that I know of would like a word with you.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 8:57:32 GMT -5
I'd like to post more later but where the bible says "working uncleaness" I believe that be speaking of masturbation. As far as masturbation leading to more depravity (as opposed to less I suppose) ... Of course it does, I can speak from personal experience. Tell me the context. Because "uncleaness" is a very broad term. As for the "if your hand betrays you" line...Jesus spoke in parables, remember, and I don't think his speech was meant to be just about lust. I am not saying masturbation ISN'T bad but you are giving me Bible verses that aren't masturbation-specific, and seem intended to be encompassing more than one sin--whatever those sins may be.
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