|
Post by Kerrigan on Sept 1, 2007 12:38:12 GMT -5
I am sure that most of you have heard about this already. As well as about the Juanita Bynum and "Bishop" Weeks divorce. These people are just revealing their true colors. Here is a link to an article with more details about the Whites: www.sptimes.com/2007/08/24/Hillsborough/Megachurch_founding_p.shtmlAnyway, I was talking to Micah about this on the phone the other day and he mentioned seeing Randy White while he and some people were preaching one night. Micah said that Randy White was laughing at homosexuals doing things in front of the preaching. You can see Micah confronting Randy at the end of the video. Here is the YouTube video of it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ngQ0fq6PI&mode=related&search=
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Sept 1, 2007 12:55:48 GMT -5
I regret not being sure if that was him or not for much of the night. I did not preach that night because I was trying to save my strength for the coming campus preaching.
I am glad I did rebuke him privately to his face. This was before I knew about his divorce.
Thanks for posting this.
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 1, 2007 15:49:05 GMT -5
"The couple, who have both been married and divorced before, did not say what caused their breakup. They also did not detail if they had filed for divorce. They have grown children from previous relationships but none together."
This is from the article. I had no idea they have both been divorced and remarried in the past. They are not qualified to be pastors at all, besides Paula being a woman.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
I wonder if their reason for splitting is to get out of the adulterous relationship they were in. This is what Kathryn Kuhlman did and then lived single the rest of her life.
This is awful.
Miles
|
|
|
Post by rebecca on Sept 1, 2007 17:02:42 GMT -5
Randy has a 29 year old daughter that has an inoperable brain tumor. I haven't given up hope on them. Ive been to thier church and they are decieved and just need prayer.
|
|
|
Post by rebecca on Sept 1, 2007 17:25:00 GMT -5
Actually more like salvation! She's always been an entrepreneur. His family was in the holiness movement and he always jokes about it. It's always just been a business to them.
|
|
luvofchrist
Full Member
"Gibson" the wonder pup
Posts: 233
|
Post by luvofchrist on Sept 2, 2007 16:18:41 GMT -5
Miles,
Could you please clarify this statement for me? Are you saying: a) that they are not qualified to be pastors because they've been divorced? b) not qualified to be pastors because of some false teaching? or c) other?
|
|
|
Post by rebecca on Sept 2, 2007 22:48:44 GMT -5
I don't know if you ever saw this or not so I thought I would post it again.It's an article about Joe Redner, Randy White gave up the pulpit for him to speak in his church.I have a very hard time believing Randy and Paula were ever saved looking at the fruit of thier lives. As the scripture says, by thier fruits you shall know them. sptimes.com/2006/07/17/Tampabay/Strip_club_king_goes_.shtml
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 3, 2007 14:56:29 GMT -5
Miles, Could you please clarify this statement for me? Are you saying: a) that they are not qualified to be pastors because they've been divorced? b) not qualified to be pastors because of some false teaching? or c) other? The scripture (1 Tim 3:2) says that a bishop must be blameless; the husband of one wife... I mean first of all, Paula is not the "husband of one wife" but that is a whole other issue (women pastors I mean...). But being the husband of one wife means that you are not divorced and remarried. Could it also be talking of polygamy? Yeah, it could include that but it is talking about divorce and remarriage. Just look at the early church's view on it. When I get home from Alaska maybe I will post some of their quotes as well. A pastor or bishop who still has a living wife and yet is married to another is not qualified to be a pastor. That is what I mean by that. Sorry for the confusion. Blessings, Miles
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Sept 3, 2007 17:16:08 GMT -5
I am not sure one can even be saved while living in a double marriage situation. According to the Bible it is living in a state of adultery.
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 17:25:38 GMT -5
I am not sure one can even be saved while living in a double marriage situation. According to the Bible it is living in a state of adultery. Guess I'm not saved then. I was married in my VERY young years due to a "prophecy" from a "prophet" in our WOF church. We divorced. Many years later, after becoming established in Doctrine and Discipleship, I was remarried and now have a home, a wife and a daughter. My ex wife left church, remarried, separated with her husband and is now shacked up and still isn't in church or serving God. Amazing! All this time, I didn't realize I wasn't Born Again! Thanks for the eye opener, brother Side note: The woman at the well had five HUSBANDS, acording to Jesus.... I see Him recognizing her marriages. Nonetheless, since I'm not saved, the Gospel must be, "repent, Believe and tell your second wife Jesus doesn't recognize the marriage." (I'm saying this with a smile, Bro; I'm long past debating the remarriage issue)
|
|
|
Post by messengermicah on Sept 3, 2007 17:49:47 GMT -5
Sorry but I am not trying to debate anyone. I just do not see it anywhere in the Bible where it is ok if it was done before the person was a Christian.
I know many people who seem to be model Christians that are in this situation. Still I would never have a clear conscience about condoning this situation. I would not want to be in their shoes on judgment day. If I am wrong then I am wrong but I would rather error on this side that the other because that is how I see it in the Word of God.
I don't want to debate either because I do not get on line much anymore, but I don't believe Jesus is at all recognizing those other marriages.
The verses that get me are John rebuking Herod for having his brother's wife because it was not lawful for him to have her. Herod was not a Christian. He was a sinner.
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 3, 2007 18:40:42 GMT -5
Sorry but I am not trying to debate anyone. I just do not see it anywhere in the Bible where it is ok if it was done before the person was a Christian. I know many people who seem to be model Christians that are in this situation. Still I would never have a clear conscience about condoning this situation. I would not want to be in their shoes on judgment day. If I am wrong then I am wrong but I would rather error on this side that the other because that is how I see it in the Word of God. I don't want to debate either because I do not get on line much anymore, but I don't believe Jesus is at all recognizing those other marriages. The verses that get me are John rebuking Herod for having his brother's wife because it was not lawful for him to have her. Herod was not a Christian. He was a sinner. Yes, Micah, I am with you. It is for sure one of the most difficult things I have wrestled with but the scripture cannot be much more clear. Also the tradition of the early church on the issue. I have not come to the clearest conclusion on what to tell someone yet who is in the situation but I know I always advise and warn those who are divorced to not remarry unless they reconcile with their wife. I believe what Jesus says: Mark 10 5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. 11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. The only way I know to repent is to actually stop doing something. In Ezra 10 they put away their wives that were unlawful for them to have. If John the Baptist expected Herod to leave his brother's wife (who Herod had married while his brother was still alive, therefore being unlawful) I can only expect one in the situation must do the same. Leave the woman he is living in adultery with yet still support and take care of her and any children. Miles
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 18:45:10 GMT -5
Sorry but I am not trying to debate anyone. I just do not see it anywhere in the Bible where it is ok if it was done before the person was a Christian. I know many people who seem to be model Christians that are in this situation. Still I would never have a clear conscience about condoning this situation. I would not want to be in their shoes on judgment day. If I am wrong then I am wrong but I would rather error on this side that the other because that is how I see it in the Word of God. I don't want to debate either because I do not get on line much anymore, but I don't believe Jesus is at all recognizing those other marriages. The verses that get me are John rebuking Herod for having his brother's wife because it was not lawful for him to have her. Herod was not a Christian. He was a sinner. Yes, Micah, I am with you. It is for sure one of the most difficult things I have wrestled with but the scripture cannot be much more clear. Also the tradition of the early church on the issue. I have not come to the clearest conclusion on what to tell someone yet who is in the situation but I know I always advise and warn those who are divorced to not remarry unless they reconcile with their wife. I believe what Jesus says: 5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. 11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. The only way I know to repent is to actually stop doing something. In Ezra 10 they put away their wives that were unlawful for them to have. If John the Baptist expected Herod to leave his brother's wife (who Herod had married while his brother was still alive, therefore being unlawful) I can only expect one in the situation must do the same. Leave the woman he is living in adultery with yet still support and take care of her and any children. Miles How can one reconcile when my wife left me for another man and married him and left the Church? The Bibel says I am not under bondage in such a case. Nonetheless, are you claiming I'm not saved, guys? Just want to be on the clear side of your thoughts
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 3, 2007 18:50:26 GMT -5
You know, the more I think about it the more I tremble at what Judgment Day will be like. I envision many many souls who might say, "But Lord, NO ONE told me that divorce and remarriage was living in adultery!" Maybe it is time to be willing to lose our heads like John the Baptist and be a voice of one crying in the wilderness. The anabaptists have been bold about the issue for years. Fifty to a hundred years ago in this country it was understood by the overwhelming majority that divorce and remarriage was wrong and shameful. Maybe it is time to be just as bold as we are about homosexuality and fornication and drunkenness. I already see what is happening with other sins; there are so so many people involved in the sin that as Christians it becomes difficult to speak boldly about it. I think this has happened with divorce and remarriage. I think everyone can think of more than Christian they know who seems to be solid and yet is divorced and remarried. Are you willing to be the John the Baptist in their life?
Sobering, is about all I can really say.
Miles
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 18:54:09 GMT -5
I agree that one is divorced and remarried is not qualified for Pastoral leadership.
I also believe that many divorces and remarriages are done unBiblically.
There are, however, cases where divorce and remarriage is warranted, as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 7.
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 3, 2007 19:00:47 GMT -5
Yes, Micah, I am with you. It is for sure one of the most difficult things I have wrestled with but the scripture cannot be much more clear. Also the tradition of the early church on the issue. I have not come to the clearest conclusion on what to tell someone yet who is in the situation but I know I always advise and warn those who are divorced to not remarry unless they reconcile with their wife. I believe what Jesus says: 5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. 11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. The only way I know to repent is to actually stop doing something. In Ezra 10 they put away their wives that were unlawful for them to have. If John the Baptist expected Herod to leave his brother's wife (who Herod had married while his brother was still alive, therefore being unlawful) I can only expect one in the situation must do the same. Leave the woman he is living in adultery with yet still support and take care of her and any children. Miles How can one reconcile when my wife left me for another man and married him and left the Church? The Bibel says I am not under bondage in such a case. Nonetheless, are you claiming I'm not saved, guys? Just want to be on the clear side of your thoughts Since you and her have been remarried there is no possibility to reconcile unless perhaps all other spouses were to die. 1 Cor. 7 10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. Marriage is till death do you part. If there has not been death there is no separation. Romans 7 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. There is a book I recommend called "Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage" available online that I will post a link to. Also a sermon that if I find it online I will make available. If I can't find it I will load it online. Blessings, Miles
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 3, 2007 19:02:57 GMT -5
1 Cor 7 gives grounds for divorce, not for remarriage. Divorce and remarriage are two separate issues. I think if we can realize that they are not the same the easier it will be to rightly divide the word of God.
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 19:02:59 GMT -5
1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
Shall I then leave my present wife and child and desert them, and seek to reconcile with my exwife who left me, turned from God, became a fornicator, drunkard and wicked person, filed for divorce, remarried and is presently shacked up?
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 3, 2007 19:05:31 GMT -5
The believer is not in bondage to stay in the relationship. Nowhere does it say it is ok to remarry another but rather what any Christian should tell any other Christian:
1 Cor. 7 10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 19:07:00 GMT -5
The believer is not in bondage to stay in the relationship. Nowhere does it say it is ok to remarry another but rather what any Christian should tell any other Christian: 1 Cor. 7 10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. Can you show me where it doesn;t say you can remarry in the 1 Cor 7:15 verse? My Bibel tells me I am not under bondage; what bondage do you suppose Paul is speaking of?
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 19:07:53 GMT -5
The verse you just quoted does not apply when the wife went and remarried first, thus nullifying the "llet her be reconciled".
It's simply not possible, as the situationj of remarrying has placed me out of that bondage as no reconiliation is even possible.
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 3, 2007 19:08:30 GMT -5
I'm not saying you should reconcile with your wife because she has already been remarried and so have you. I do think you have the responsibility to take care of you wife and kids.
Do you want me to tell you what you want to hear or what I believe God has for you to hear?
You know my heart and my love for you Dan. If God says something different I wish it were so, but what God says is what God says.
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 19:09:51 GMT -5
I'm not saying you should reconcile with your wife because she has already been remarried and so have you. I do think you have the responsibility to take care of you wife and kids. Do you want me to tell you what you want to hear or what I believe God has for you to hear? You know my heart and my love for you Dan. If God says something different I wish it were so, but what God says is what God says. Yes, I have that responsibility, Amen. I don;t want to hear what I "want" to hear, but I do believe that you're using Scripture wrongly in this instance, when it can be applied only to a spuse who has not already remarried. Mine did. There was nothing I could do.
|
|
|
Post by Miles Lewis on Sept 3, 2007 19:10:35 GMT -5
Ezra chapter 10 gives an example of what they were supposed to do. I will have to look up the verse about not reconciling with your wife if she has remarried another. It says something about the land being defiled.
I have to go to the fair right now but I will try to respond more later.
Blessings,
Miles
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 19:16:17 GMT -5
Ezra chapter 10 gives an example of what they were supposed to do. I will have to look up the verse about not reconciling with your wife if she has remarried another. It says something about the land being defiled. I have to go to the fair right now but I will try to respond more later. Blessings, Miles "The land is defiled"verse is in Deuteronomy. Nonetheless, the 1 Cor 7 verse cannot logically apoply to one who cannot reconcile, so you cannot apply the verse as a blanket statement, as it's simply not possible. You can't reconcile when the spouse has refused, left God, remarried, divorced again, and is now shacked up. To apply the verse where it cannot be applied should not be done, as the verse speaks to a specific group, ie, those who are separated, not separated and remarried. Nonetheless, I'll never leave my wife due to a Forum discussion where verses are applied and used where they cannot be applied and used, as she's the greatest thing that has happened to me in many years. She's my best friend, prayer partner, and has served God without "backsliding" since her Conversion. A true Woman of God who prays for me, lays hands on me adn supports me in the Ministry with all of her heart. 1 Corinthians 7:15 says certain Believers are not under bondage. Amen. God bless you, brother. Chat soon.
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 19:20:35 GMT -5
Since this discussion has leaned towards the 100% condemnation of remarrige, I'm going to remove myself from thsi thread, as it's simply not worth the debating.
Prayer will do much more than writing back and forth on why or why not a Believer can remarry.
God bless.
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 19:25:08 GMT -5
I'm going to conclude with a small note from Pastor David Wilkerson, which I find so much Grace in:
Divorce and remarriage is not the true plan of God, and only those who are innocent victims find a measure of happiness in another union. There are occasions where a person could not avoid divorce and remarried in the will of God. But, even then, both partners have to work and pray extra hard to maintain their love and joy. But, they are exceptions to the rule. (http://www.worldchallenge.org/pulpit_series/archive/ps77_0900.html)
|
|
|
Post by Josh Parsley on Sept 3, 2007 19:33:15 GMT -5
This is a scary topic. Pro 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. No one wants to be wrong on this topic! Which ever side it right, the other side would fall into the above scripture since this is a heaven/hell issue. I would agree with Brother Britt Williams on this topic. www.consumingfirefellowship.org/Divorce%20And%20Remarriage.htm
|
|
|
Post by pentecostalpower on Sept 3, 2007 19:35:46 GMT -5
Thank you for being Biblical and gracious in your spirit, on thsi issue Josh. The article hits the nail on the head, so to speak.
|
|
|
Post by rebecca on Sept 3, 2007 19:51:36 GMT -5
Good article, I concur. It's a gift to remain unmarried. If you were forced to remain unmarried it would cause you to fall into temptation.
|
|