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Post by Jules on Apr 28, 2006 1:50:34 GMT -5
wkufan: I'm...really not at all sure what that has to do with anything I said here. It's all great advice, to be sure, and advice that I've received many times before and try to follow. But we're discussing differences in treatment on the basis of gender. And I'm not sure where you got the idea that I've acted like a "complainer" on the job. I asked for my paycheck and was told they gave it to Guy X. I really don't see how I was in the wrong by trying to rectify this situation. And yeah, you don't know the specific situation. A summer swim team=/=five million dollar company. My point in bringing it up was that there is a very specific political climate to swim team, which I knew and the boys didn't, therefore it would simply be unreasonable for the blind to lead the one with twenty-twenty vision, so to speak. Also, I don't remember saying that I'm bitter about the experience or that I think I'm the victim of some great social injustice. I wouldn't work for those people anymore because they mistreated me, but I adore coaching, look back on those three years with many wonderful memories and have a great rapport to this day with all but a very few of the board members. That wasn't the point of the thread, though, so I didn't mention it. I guess I'm not sure what you thought I did wrong and where the advice was directed, exactly. Jules: What if you were clearly more knowledgeable about scripture than Jesse and more qualified to share information? Would you withhold it simply because of your biological sex? EDIT: Thought of something else. I edit my friends' writing all the time, many of them being male writers. Should I not "teach" them what I know because I am female? By the way, what exactly is the problem with the "teaching" thing? Why are women viewed as inherently unqualified to do this? Is it because they might believe themselves to be more qualified than a man but this is simply not true because their sex negates any knowledge they might have acquired? Or are they deceiving themselves and others by spreading the notion that they know more than men, when they actually do not? You guys are unbelievers as well. SO that changes things. I am preaching, which women can certainly do, as they are commanded to. Preaching is simply telling the good news, or gospel. I have yet to meet a man, regardless of age or education, that if prompted to lead or teach or preach by the Lord, that God didn't completely ignite into an inferno of Spirit.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 28, 2006 2:04:26 GMT -5
Look, I hate to barge into a wonderful career seminar here, but I think the point of this thread was not how not to piss off your boss/supervisor, but the fact that God is a bigoted, chauvanistic pig who created women to be inherently inferior in their abilities (though not their worth) to men. . You have a lot of unbridled nerve to blaspheme the name of God like that. The same God who gave you life. I hope you reconsider your thoughts and realize that it's not as cute sounding as you may think. It's obvious you fail to see the link of a human supervisory relationship vis a' vis God, so I won't even attempt to quantify nor qualify this. Yes, I do have a lot of unbridled nerve. Apparently I will be sent to hell for making a hearing aid/bifocal joke about God too. According to, I believe, Evanschaible. If Hitler commits genocide, we see him as an evil person. If God ethnically cleanses the entire world population with a flood, we glorify said genocide and tell it to our children as a fairy tale story. When America moved into indian territories (like Northwest Georgia, the nation of the Cherokees), it claimed the land as its own by divine will. As a result, America committed genocide on the native americans. That was despicable. We glorify it when God "tells" us to do it, as God did with the Israelites in the land of Caanan. Even today, our middle eastern policy is shaped by the idea that land could be taken from those who had occupied it for 2000 years so that it could be given to "God's people." If that is how your god operates, then I have no problem standing up in opposition to that. I think you have a lot of nerve to blaspheme the nature of humanity. I believe in the inherent worth of all human beings whether they be male or female, black or white, old or young, Christian or Muslim, sane or crazy. If a woman can do the best job, then by all means she should be allowed to do it. How dare you insult the name of the greatest human being of all time, by comparing his message of love and compassion to one of vengance and whimsical destruction? Sometimes religion is a barrier to spirituality, and sometimes irreverence is the way to find the Spirit. My motive is noble, it is to seek the equality of all people, and if I have to insult your image of God to get you to see the nature of your beliefs, I will. If there is a God, and if this God is a fair and omnicient judge, then God will punish or reward based upon motive, not offense. But it doesn't matter. If I live a good life because I fear punishment or hope for reward, then my motives have been selfish, and my cause tainted.
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Post by wkufan on Apr 28, 2006 12:23:50 GMT -5
Your argument is not in the spirit or intent of this thread, is it? I was advised it was on Feminism.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 28, 2006 15:17:54 GMT -5
Your argument is not in the spirit or intent of this thread, is it? I was advised it was on Feminism. Yes, it is in the spirit of this thread. The intent of this thread is to call to attention to the fact that either God is a male-chauvanist bigot or you are wrong about God. I merely pointed out more of God's pattern of pathological behavior. Why don't you address my earlier points? Is God chauvanistic, because a human making the arguments you claim in the name of God would be considered so. Since you are new here, I'll let you in on a little secret...very few of these threads maintain their original intent. Case in point, is your career seminar, which had nothing to do with the discussion about feminism. So can we get back on track now?
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Post by wkufan on Apr 28, 2006 19:40:10 GMT -5
Why don't you address my earlier points? Because I not convinced you're interested in an honest dialog. You've had over 160 posts on this board. Probably read triple this, but yet you still insult the holy name of God. Now granted, I can't tell you how many of these posts on here have been Scripturely sound; however, I think you're more into stroking your own ego rather than learning about God or trying to impress us on how enlightened and comical you are. There's nothing I can address to you that you'll consider. You've had ample time to test or discover some of your questions in Scriptures, but yet, you'd rather demonstrate your immaturity and ignorance of the things of God. It does nothing to lend credibility to your "thoughts". I realize this may be somewhat a stinging retort. I can assure you that, eventhough I don't know you, I do have a genuine interest in your well-being and I will pray for you. All I can offer you right now is my sincere plead (begging) that you'll repent, turn away from your sins, and trust Jesus Christ as your Lord so that you may escape the wrath and judgment of God.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 28, 2006 20:06:58 GMT -5
Um, he wasn't really saying God is bigoted. It's called sarcasm. Directed at God's so-called "faithful" followers. Seriously, do you guys live under rocks when you aren't oppresing people?
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Post by wkufan on Apr 28, 2006 21:04:58 GMT -5
Um, he wasn't really saying God is bigoted. It's called sarcasm. Directed at God's so-called "faithful" followers. Seriously, do you guys live under rocks when you aren't oppresing people? You sound very oppressed. I don't mind a spirited debate, but I have learned when no one has a point, they make silly and ridiculous statements.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 28, 2006 23:11:51 GMT -5
Because I not convinced you're interested in an honest dialog. You've had over 160 posts on this board. Probably read triple this, but yet you still insult the holy name of God. Now granted, I can't tell you how many of these posts on here have been Scripturely sound; however, I think you're more into stroking your own ego rather than learning about God or trying to impress us on how enlightened and comical you are. If I wasn't interested in an honest diaglogue, I wouldn't be here. I most certainly am not here to have a dishonest dialogue. And as I said in an earlier post, sometimes irreverence puts one closer to God than does dogma. As Morluna said, I'm not insulting God (since I have no proof that God exists, I have no motivation to do so), I am insulting your image of God. Have you actually considered the point I made? If God is really like you say God is, does that not mean that God holds attitudes which we would consider bigoted were God human? I personally have never been into stroking my own ego. Right now I couldn't do it if I wanted to because I have a sprained hand and I can barely type, let alone stroke anything. As for being comical, I do my best. Laughter is the best medicine. If I can make you laugh, then perhaps I can make you think about your beliefs in a new light. Of course I wasn't trying to cause laughter, I was being satirical. Yes, there are things which you can address to me. You can address logical arguements and empirical evidence. Repeating the word 'repent', as Thumper is wont to do, will not sway me. As to my ignorance of God, I think that can be explained in the fact that I believe that if there is a God, then God is infinite, and humans cannot hope to understand the infinite. Therefore, I don't claim to know God's will or anything like that. Well, if you want to be a part of said repentance, you are going to have to do something besides refuse to speak with me.
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Post by wkufan on Apr 29, 2006 0:18:40 GMT -5
Ok, ok...Please know that my "understanding" of God requires us to respect Him, not be the subject of jokes or satire. It's an issue of respect. I don't have an image of God. I have an understanding of some of His will. This comes from studying and reviewing Scriptures. This is the only way to do it. I don't claim to know the mind of God, because this is impossible to know Him or judge Him. God reveals Himself to those who seek Him. No man has the authority to judge God as bigoted or not. God's judgment and motivation are just and righteous. I can not presume (no one, for that matter) to understand or know the mind of God only to trust Him to do what is righteous and just.
All I can tell you about God is what is revealed in the heart and the Scriptures. I dare not add anything to this understanding. Some people may gain a strong knowledge over night, others require close study. Seek and it shall be answered. But we only know what He reveals to us and the Scriptures tell us we have everything we need in the Word.
What I understand about God is that He hates sin. We can not receive everlasting life without Christ, who covered our sins through His sacrifice. Jesus makes us righteous and acceptable to God as a result of this sacrifice. Christ died for our sins specifically so each one of would be saved from the judgment of God--this is what is meant that "God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son. God allowed His only Son to take the wrath we deserve. That's pretty incredible. Ask any loving parent how easy it would be to do this to their own child. You are not saved by being "good", giving money away, or anything--only through the blood of Jesus Christ and that requires repenting, turning from sin and trust Jesus to do what's right--which He will. This will save the person from eternal d**nation.
I'm not going to provide an argument other than discuss the truth that's revealed in the Scriptures. It's not a matter of debate, rather a matter of faith. Can I empirically prove God's existence? No. No one can. However, no one can empirically disprove God either. With that said, the Bible is full of scientific proof of physical, natural laws, etc, that were disclosed or described many centuries prior to Man's discovery. From my perspective, that's all the empircal evidence I personally need.
In other words, creation, life, the heavens is testimony of the existence and glory of God.
I agree with your statement " I believe that if there is a God, then God is infinite, and humans cannot hope to understand the infinite. " It's a good point and it's valid. Man cannot comprehend the mind or will of God other than what He has revealed to us in Scriptures. For example, I've cautioned people recently about assuming that Katrina was a judgment of God. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't. In the days before Christ, they had prophets which revealed the judgment of God. I can't tell you that any event is a judgment of God and no one else can either.
With that said, I do know what happens to nations that forget God as it's disclosed in Psalm 9:17: (King James Version) 17The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Because of the sin of Adam, you can expect disasters as Adam's sin has cursed the world. So from that perspective, I guess you could claim it's indirect judgment. But other than that, it's pure conjecture.
Honestly, I can't lead you to repentence. Only God can change your heart. This is something you have to do in faith in Christ. God is our Father. He wants us to be with Him forever. If you were a father, wouldn't you want to be with your children forever? But He wants you to love Him by your free choice. Only Jesus can lead you to this salvation. His sacrifice on the cross was to atone for our sins so we would be deemed righteous and worthy before God and escape His wrath and judgment of sin. Hell was not intended for Man. But we choose this path by rejecting God and Christ. You can only rely on the Word of God, not on what Man tells you--and this is the truth as revealed to us by God. God tells us His wisdom will come from reading His word--His truth, our salvation.
I hope this helps.
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Post by Jules on May 1, 2006 19:31:51 GMT -5
wanderingtrekker - we have NOTHING to do with your repentance, salvation, or anything else. All we are called to do is speak the truth to you. We get no "credit" for any of it. The Bible says that no man comes to the Father except by Christ, and that no ones comes to Christ unless the Father Himself draws Him. So what role do we as Christians play in all this? We simply preach the gospel, or good news, which is only GOOD NEWS because the BAD NEWS is that you are a sinner still under the wrath of God. The good news (gospel) is good becuse you are going to be judged. We speak the gospel, which includes repentance FIRST, then, it is out of our hands so to speak. For whatever reason, God decided that redemption would be made known through the Word (faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God - Romans 10:17) this Word is spoken through his prophets, judges, apostles, and disciples throughout history.
Now the time is for you. You have been told the truth, given the gospel, and if there is faith to come, now is the time. Now is the day of salvation. You all (unbelievers) seem to fit into the category of thinking the message of the cross is foolishness - if so, then I weep for you. Because if it is foolishness to you, it is because you are perishing. Please repent, and be saved. This isn't about "us" against "you" or our beliefs vs. yours...it is really about the dangerous state you are in. We care about you - but there will come a time, if you continue to reject the gospel, that it will no longer be preached to you. You will have indicated by your rejection that you are hardened in your heart, and have exchanged the truth for a lie.
Have you read the Bible today? I'll make a deal with you. Read the Bible, the gospel of John for starters, and then come back with questions. I'll read something you want me to read as well. Consider it a "contest" of convictions. See who changes their minds. They have to be comparable in length though. I won't read an entire book in exchange for you reading a book of the Bible, because it would generally be much shorter. Sound fair?
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Post by valentine on May 1, 2006 20:06:13 GMT -5
Point: this has nothing to do with feminism. Kind of like the impromptu business ethics lecture. Have you read the Bible today? I'd have to say "no." That was a few years ago, last time I did that. I've been researching topology all day. Heehee. I volunteer. I just need to find a copy. Have not needed one in awhile. My book for you: Anthem by Ayn Rand. Enjoy. ;D EDIT: Actually, if Anthem is too difficult for you, might I suggest The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton. This is, I believe, the ballad of teen tolerance (yes, I know you do not like tolerance, but hear me out), and if you have not read this book, you should. I think the world would be a much nicer place if everybody were required to read this. It's an extremely short, simple story written by a sixteen-year-old. Not directly about any of the issues we frequently discuss here--it's actually about gangs--but I think it's hands-down the best plea for understanding and acceptance of the "other side" that I have ever read. Ever.
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Post by Morluna on May 1, 2006 20:11:46 GMT -5
Ooo Oo!!! I wanna do this too!!!
I LOVE BOOK CLUB!!! *dons dorky librarian glasses* Sigh... I'm never getting laid... XD
My book for you: 1984 by George Orwell. ^_^
What selection should I read?
PS: Valentine, you can borrow one of mine. I have like, 3 of them.
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Post by wkufan on May 1, 2006 22:59:56 GMT -5
Point: this has nothing to do with feminism. Kind of like the impromptu business ethics lecture. Have you read the Bible today? I'd have to say "no." That was a few years ago, last time I did that. I've been researching topology all day. Just wondering what your response has to do with the thread "feminism"? You purport and like to think of yourself to be intellectually antagonistic, but yet your attempts and method are immature. The aforementioned is a perfect example. I'm not trying to personally insult you, but when you complain about an issue and violate those same tenents of your complaint, then you really need to reconsider your means of logical conclusion.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 1, 2006 23:05:38 GMT -5
No, but I read some yesterday, does that count?
Umm...hold on, *goes to shelf, peruses.*
"Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity" Bruce Bawer, Three Rivers Press, New York, 1997.
That's a really good one. It's not anti-christian, it just talks about the differences between fundamentalism and mainstream Christianity.
If that's not available, I also like
"Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" (Bishop) John Shelby Spong, HarperSanFranciso, 1991.
"Jesus Against Christianity: Reclaiming the Missing Jesus" Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer, Trinity Press International, Harrisburg, PA, 2001. Also very good.
You might find the next one really good too. It talks about how our interpretation of what are essentially Jewish scriptures came to be. "Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible with Jewish Eyes" (Bishop) John Shelby Spong, HarperSanFranciso, 1996.
On the topic of separating sin from being, "Love the Sin: Sexual Regulation and the Limits of Religious Tolerance" Janet R. Jakobsen and Ann Pellegrini, Beacon Press, Boston, 2003.
I found the next short (133 pages) book, to be rather enlightening. "What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" Daniel A. Helminiak, Ph.D., Alamo Square Press, New Mexico, 1994.
If you'd like additional suggestions, I can provide them. These are good books to read, whether or not you can get us to do tit-for-tat. The Bible is also a good book to read. Did you have a particular section in mind?
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Post by Morluna on May 2, 2006 0:43:00 GMT -5
Ooooo *adds all of Trekker's suggestions to her reading list*
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Post by valentine on May 2, 2006 1:14:38 GMT -5
Just wondering what your response has to do with the thread "feminism"? You purport and like to think of yourself to be intellectually antagonistic, but yet your attempts and method are immature. The aforementioned is a perfect example. She asked a question, I answered it, but pointed out that it was off-topic. As I did to you when you did the same thing. Twice. You want an example of immaturity, please enjoy THIS. Kinda cute, isn't it? Well, yeah, you kind of are, actually. Your posts are amusing, wkufan: over and over I have seen you preface things with "Now I don't mean to insult you," and then you insult me. Hey there, Pot? I'm Kettle. Nice to meet ya.
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Post by wkufan on May 2, 2006 1:26:59 GMT -5
"She" didn't state anything. You made an issue with it. I merely am pointing out your immature hypocrisy. You're the only one complaining about being "off topic", but yet you insist on continuing about the same. That's all I'll say about it because it's obviously a sensitive issue with you. But if you're going to play tennis, expect the ball to be hit back at you.
Would you feel better if I truly slammed you? No, I'm not trying to insult you. But be prepared to have it "called back to you" when you complain about an issue and you do the same.
If I weren't concerned about you, I would hardly care what you did. But please heed this, if you don't repent and trust in Jesus to reconcile you to God, then you'll be lost forever. That's the most important thing for you to do. God will give you wisdom if you seek it. You'll forget all about childish retort.
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Post by valentine on May 2, 2006 10:47:27 GMT -5
Made an issue? Jules asked us a question and proposed a bargain. We responded in kind. Nowhere in my post did I say she "stated" something.
Slam away: luckily, I don't really care what a fundamentalist stranger thinks of me, and though I find it difficult to believe that insulting me would be a good use of your time, I would find it most entertaining.
I'll attempt to wade through my great puddle of hypocrisy and return to the topic: everyone, why do you suppose that wkufan has yet to answer the questions stated here, and instead resorts to business lectures and pops in periodically to fling accusations? I for one would be extremely interested to hear his views on feminism if he is so inclined.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 2, 2006 11:58:29 GMT -5
Made an issue? Jules asked us a question and proposed a bargain. We responded in kind. Nowhere in my post did I say she "stated" something. Slam away: luckily, I don't really care what a fundamentalist stranger thinks of me, and though I find it difficult to believe that insulting me would be a good use of your time, I would find it most entertaining. I'll attempt to wade through my great puddle of hypocrisy and return to the topic: everyone, why do you suppose that wkufan has yet to answer the questions stated here, and instead resorts to business lectures and pops in periodically to fling accusations? I for one would be extremely interested to hear his views on feminism if he is so inclined. Val, everybody knows this thread isn't about feminism. Why are you off topic? REPENT!
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Post by valentine on May 2, 2006 12:15:01 GMT -5
Oh RIGHT, "Treky"! It's about REPENTING. Whoopsiedoodle!
Right then, so without further ado...
Repent, wkufan. REPENT.
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Post by wkufan on May 2, 2006 12:49:07 GMT -5
Made an issue? Jules asked us a question and proposed a bargain. We responded in kind. Nowhere in my post did I say she "stated" something. Slam away: luckily, I don't really care what a fundamentalist stranger thinks of me, and though I find it difficult to believe that insulting me would be a good use of your time, I would find it most entertaining. I'll attempt to wade through my great puddle of hypocrisy and return to the topic: everyone, why do you suppose that wkufan has yet to answer the questions stated here, and instead resorts to business lectures and pops in periodically to fling accusations? I for one would be extremely interested to hear his views on feminism if he is so inclined. You've had the truth of the Scriptures conveyed to you. And out of wanderingtrekker's mouth, in an attempt to be comical he unknowlingly speaks the wisdom of the Scriptures. A better question is why do you embrace death, and subject yourself to the judgement and the wrath of God? Because you can't stand the idea that you'll be judged. You think of yourself higher than God, that you have greater moral standards than God, that you know better than God--don't feel alone, many others are just as ignorant and will suffer the same penalty. You need to know your environment. But you can't see the forest for the trees. You live in perilous and violent times. This is a world you love. There's no guarantee you'll even be alive tomorrow, the next week, the next year. This world is at war. You could be confronted with a terrorist attack, an out of control car or some murderer. But you're gambling on a bet that you can't win. Your life will expire. By some fashion or manner, your life will end. And I can assure you with each beat of your heart announces the coming of your impending death--it's like a drum at a funeral procession. Each beat is like an unwinding clock--it will run down and stop. When? Only God knows. What people on here that run this site is trying to tell you is how you can escape death and eternal d**nation. You reject this and whine about immaterial issues, like thread topic. What is material is that you get right with God. Again, you are blind to your environment. You fail to see where you're standing. Over the last thousands of years of civilization, only in the last 70 years has Man had the capacity to destroy the world. The world you so love and it's sinful nature is quickly coming to an end. These and other truths are disclosed in the Book of Revelation. You'll reject this, because you pridely refuse to recognize the environment you live--you'll reject the truth for a lie. If you fail to recognize this, you can't blame anyone but yourself when judgement from God presents itself. The world/man has become incredibly sinful, hateful and murderous. The change even in this country is self evident. Wake up and see where you are. Today choose you whom you will serve. You are not going to have an excuse when you stand before God at the day of judgement. You know in your heart right from wrong. It's been inscribed in your heart because we all are created in His image. That's your conscience. You know when you've done "wrong". You feel guilty. And the day you don't, you've been surrendered to sin; you're a slave to sin-- and you're lost. Please repent from your sins, honor God who gave you life and trust Jesus for your salvation and guidance. This is the only hope you or I have.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 2, 2006 13:16:59 GMT -5
You reject this and whine about immaterial issues, like thread topic. But you're the one whining about thread topic... Case in point: On April 28: On May 1: Valentine only responded to your criticisms about thread tangents.
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Post by wkufan on May 2, 2006 15:26:55 GMT -5
You reject this and whine about immaterial issues, like thread topic. But you're the one whining about thread topic... Case in point: On April 28: On May 1: Valentine only responded to your criticisms about thread tangents. Nice try, but no cigar.
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Post by Jules on May 2, 2006 19:42:36 GMT -5
Valentine said: "Heehee. I volunteer. I just need to find a copy. Have not needed one in awhile. My book for you: Anthem by Ayn Rand. Enjoy. ;D EDIT: Actually, if Anthem is too difficult for you, might I suggest The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton. This is, I believe, the ballad of teen tolerance (yes, I know you do not like tolerance, but hear me out), and if you have not read this book, you should. I think the world would be a much nicer place if everybody were required to read this. It's an extremely short, simple story written by a sixteen-year-old. Not directly about any of the issues we frequently discuss here--it's actually about gangs--but I think it's hands-down the best plea for understanding and acceptance of the "other side" that I have ever read. Ever." I've already read the Outsiders, more than once. What part did you want to discuss? I will get a copy of Anthem...I dislike AYn Rand, but will read this one. Have read some of her work in my "heathen days" and for college. And, I expect you to find a Bible and read the gospel of John, then we'll move on to a prophet book if you can handle it. I don't know how long the book you want me to read is, so I'll find out. IN the meantime, draft some questions for me to make sure I am reading it if you like. Then I will do the same for you to "check" to make sure you are reading as well. Deal? I know, this is off topic. But if you guys are gonna understand where we're coming from, and not just making this stuff up, you have to read the Word yourself. We can recite verses all day. I am confident God's Word speaks for itself just fine. This is the reason I am willing to read a book you suggest in turn, to make it equal, so to speak.
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Post by Jules on May 2, 2006 19:44:24 GMT -5
Ooo Oo!!! I wanna do this too!!! I LOVE BOOK CLUB!!! *dons dorky librarian glasses* Sigh... I'm never getting laid... XD My book for you: 1984 by George Orwell. ^_^ What selection should I read? PS: Valentine, you can borrow one of mine. I have like, 3 of them. Morluna...your book is the book of Isaiah. I will get 1984, although I have read it too, it has been a while. So I will refresh by reading it again.
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Post by Jules on May 2, 2006 19:48:30 GMT -5
No, but I read some yesterday, does that count? If you'd like additional suggestions, I can provide them. These are good books to read, whether or not you can get us to do tit-for-tat. The Bible is also a good book to read. Did you have a particular section in mind? too many selections..which one is not too long, than would compare in length to reading a book of the Bible?? Let me know, I'll read it. And you can start by reading the book of Jeremiah. It is one of the longer major prophet books.
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Post by Morluna on May 2, 2006 20:22:16 GMT -5
Ooo Oo!!! I wanna do this too!!! I LOVE BOOK CLUB!!! *dons dorky librarian glasses* Sigh... I'm never getting laid... XD My book for you: 1984 by George Orwell. ^_^ What selection should I read? PS: Valentine, you can borrow one of mine. I have like, 3 of them. Morluna...your book is the book of Isaiah. I will get 1984, although I have read it too, it has been a while. So I will refresh by reading it again. Yay! I'll get right to it. Haven't read Isaiah in a couple of years. ^_^ I'll have to refresh on 1984 too... I haven't read it in... about 4 weeks. XDDDDD Hahahaha... I love that book soooo much...
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 3, 2006 0:26:44 GMT -5
too many selections..which one is not too long, than would compare in length to reading a book of the Bible?? Let me know, I'll read it. And you can start by reading the book of Jeremiah. It is one of the longer major prophet books. [/quote] All of the books I listed are very good. For your benefit, I have included the number of pages with each one. Personally, I think the first one is a good one to start with. "Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity" Bruce Bawer, Three Rivers Press, New York, 1997. 327 Pages "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" (Bishop) John Shelby Spong, HarperSanFranciso, 1991. 249 Pages "Jesus Against Christianity: Reclaiming the Missing Jesus" Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer, Trinity Press International, Harrisburg, PA, 2001. 353 Pages "Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible with Jewish Eyes" (Bishop) John Shelby Spong, HarperSanFranciso, 1996. 335 Pages "Love the Sin: Sexual Regulation and the Limits of Religious Tolerance" Janet R. Jakobsen and Ann Pellegrini, Beacon Press, Boston, 2003. 151 Pages "What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" Daniel A. Helminiak, Ph.D., Alamo Square Press, New Mexico, 1994. 133 Pages I'll get right on Jeremiah.
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 11:45:33 GMT -5
too many selections..which one is not too long, than would compare in length to reading a book of the Bible?? Let me know, I'll read it. And you can start by reading the book of Jeremiah. It is one of the longer major prophet books. "Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible with Jewish Eyes" (Bishop) John Shelby Spong, HarperSanFranciso, 1996. 335 Pages I'll get right on Jeremiah.[/quote] hmm..this one is rather long, but sounds interesting, I think I will try to find it at the library. I'll have to add a book to your list, is that OK? Jeremiah is no where near as long as this one. Please add: "God doesn't believe in atheists" by Ray Comfort. It is 190 pages. I'll pray about what other books of the Bible to add as well and get back to you in a PM instead of open forum. As I said to Valentine and Morluna, I doubt anyone else is interested in this side bar, we got way off topic and I apologize to everyone else. So we'll follow up our discussions in PMs if that is OK with you.
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Post by dmclayton on May 4, 2006 0:19:39 GMT -5
ray comfort is a hoot when you need some comic relief.
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