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Post by wkufan on May 22, 2006 15:47:44 GMT -5
So now feminism="today's culture as a whole"? Yes, because feminists so believe that women are "pieces of meat." You're not even trying. Just because some people (or even most people, and I'd dispute that) believe a certain thing about women today, that does NOT mean that feminists do. Most people today think you guys on this board need professional help. Will that stop you from doing what you believe is right? And in response to the "women as sex objects" view, and my opinion on it, I point you to the wonderful song/video "Stupid Girls" by Pink. That pretty much sums up how I feel. Though I fear that some of you will watch that and the satire will float right over your heads. I also fear that pacp can't spell "satire." Eh? When did I mention "feminists" thought this? Their orginal platform included the counter of this. I'm saying the majority of today's culture. Just turn on the TV. For someone who purports to be the "queen of comprehension", you sure miss a lot of points. Pink? If it ain't Mozart, it'll never play with me.
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Post by wkufan on May 22, 2006 15:54:23 GMT -5
Not as many as you think. And many of them simply don't realize they ARE objects. That's why feminism is so important, to stop this kind of thinking. Well, I sorta agree. Some points of feminism are worthwhile. But if the culture would embrace those things of God, it would know God views humanity on equal terms, regardless of gender.
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pacp
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Post by pacp on May 22, 2006 16:02:54 GMT -5
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20
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shangxin
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 16:31:24 GMT -5
Not as many as you think. And many of them simply don't realize they ARE objects. That's why feminism is so important, to stop this kind of thinking. Well, I sorta agree. Some points of feminism are worthwhile. But if the culture would embrace those things of God, it would know God views humanity on equal terms, regardless of gender. But according to you guys women aren't supposed to have leadership positions--like becoming president, for one thing (like the man in charge right now is doing so well!). How is that equal? Why should I trust you on things like feminism and equality when a) Some of you don't know what feminism is, b) some of you think that if a man supports feminism he is a "f*g**t" (oh look, a filter! Let's call people things we're too afraid to say!) c) Think feminism is somehow related to Satanism? How can I trust anyone who believes such illogic on the concept of gender equality? Do you guys live in the REAL WORLD? Do you talk to normal people? Or do you only converse lightly with people who believe JUST LIKE YOU or want to believe JUST LIKE YOU?
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Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 16:49:09 GMT -5
But according to you guys women aren't supposed to have leadership positions--like becoming president, for one thing (like the man in charge right now is doing so well!). How is that equal? No, no, Xinny. Don't you get it? Of course women are equal! They're just...different! Meaning that they should submit to their husbands! Slaves were equal to the plantation owners, too; they were just different.
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Post by Jules on May 22, 2006 16:53:27 GMT -5
I saw a short segment with Jim Belushi the other night, apparently he wrote a book called "Real Men Don't Apologize" and he was saying that women wanted to be treated like women so they could actually be feminine. They say they want a man who is sensitive, etc but in reality (according to Belushi) they really want a man who takes charge, makes decisions, and is a MAN. Assertive, aggressive, etc. He said women want this SO much in a relationship that when the man doesn't deliver, then the women "man up".
Anway, thought it was interesting and wondered what you guys thought of it, if you have heard of the book. He's probably making feminists everywhere mad as anything.
I do agree about the "man up" idea. I see it all the time, esp with Christian women (or so called Christian women) and when it happens in the church it is even more disgusting to behold.
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shangxin
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 17:13:16 GMT -5
I would like both, honestly. Why do we have to choose such extreme opposites? I would like a man who apologized when he is wrong, but is aggressive when he needs to be (i.e. if he's defending the rights of someone, for instance). If he yells at me, I want to be able to yell back. If I apologize when I am wrong, he should apologize when he is wrong.
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pacp
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Post by pacp on May 22, 2006 17:22:23 GMT -5
Well, I sorta agree. Some points of feminism are worthwhile. But if the culture would embrace those things of God, it would know God views humanity on equal terms, regardless of gender. But according to you guys women aren't supposed to have leadership positions--like becoming president, for one thing (like the man in charge right now is doing so well!). How is that equal? Why should I trust you on things like feminism and equality when a) Some of you don't know what feminism is, b) some of you think that if a man supports feminism he is a "f*g**t" (oh look, a filter! Let's call people things we're too afraid to say!) c) Think feminism is somehow related to Satanism? How can I trust anyone who believes such illogic on the concept of gender equality? Do you guys live in the REAL WORLD? Do you talk to normal people? Or do you only converse lightly with people who believe JUST LIKE YOU or want to believe JUST LIKE YOU? Well here it is...I line everything up in my life up against the Bible. That way I can see things for what they truly are. You wouldn't understand that. I am not "enlightened". The devil told eve in the garden that she could be "enlightened" or decide on her own and use her int elect. It was a lie...we need the Word of God...more than food. Its a light onto our path. It lights the way. Some aspects of Feminism might not be neither here nor there. Or may be "genial" in some way. You could also say that about false religion. But the core belief..of what Feminism really is against God. I challenge you to take the Bible at face value and compare Feminism to what the Bible says. We are warned that there are many false teachers out in the world and that some are wolves in sheep's clothing. You can't make up your mind on who to trust without the Bible. Look at Lennon..he sang about a world without God and thought it was good. He was a fool....
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pacp
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Post by pacp on May 22, 2006 17:29:55 GMT -5
I would like both, honestly. Why do we have to choose such extreme opposites? I would like a man who apologized when he is wrong, but is aggressive when he needs to be (i.e. if he's defending the rights of someone, for instance). If he yells at me, I want to be able to yell back. If I apologize when I am wrong, he should apologize when he is wrong. I would want the same in a woman. My equal...but we have different roles. We complement one and other. The shortest verse in the Bible is: "Jesus wept". Jesus cried..real men dry. But they are in control of their emotions and love isn't just emotion. It is self sacrifice. To die for one and other. There was a barn fire once near here. This old farmer walked into the barn afterward. He saw a black lump on the floor...so he goes over and kicks it. Well it was a mother duck. Its arms opened and out came 6 ducklings. That duck died for its ducklings. It wasn't narvana..or a feeling..so to say. It was to place your, or my , needs last...forever. Its represents God's love for us. Thats the relationship I would want to be in. Not one where a woman was trained to challenge me all the time. One where..we die for one another.....do you follow me??
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Post by rebecca01 on May 22, 2006 17:52:49 GMT -5
Question: If a woman feels like she is called to preach the gosple or any other sort of ministry and her husband says no should she do it anyway? I have been reading about Maria Woodworth-Etter and she says she felt the call of God on her life but her husband said no, and she ended up preaching anyway.The power of God fell and people were saved, was she wrong?
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shangxin
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 18:17:36 GMT -5
I would like both, honestly. Why do we have to choose such extreme opposites? I would like a man who apologized when he is wrong, but is aggressive when he needs to be (i.e. if he's defending the rights of someone, for instance). If he yells at me, I want to be able to yell back. If I apologize when I am wrong, he should apologize when he is wrong. I would want the same in a woman. My equal...but we have different roles. We complement one and other. The shortest verse in the Bible is: "Jesus wept". Jesus cried..real men dry. But they are in control of their emotions and love isn't just emotion. It is self sacrifice. To die for one and other. There was a barn fire once near here. This old farmer walked into the barn afterward. He saw a black lump on the floor...so he goes over and kicks it. Well it was a mother duck. Its arms opened and out came 6 ducklings. That duck died for its ducklings. It wasn't narvana..or a feeling..so to say. It was to place your, or my , needs last...forever. Its represents God's love for us. Thats the relationship I would want to be in. Not one where a woman was trained to challenge me all the time. One where..we die for one another.....do you follow me?? I get what you are saying but once again you have gone off-subject. We aren't talking about love or sacrifice or ducks. It's a great story but it isn't a story that we need to hear in a thread about feminism. Not everything needs to be turned into a sermon about love and sacrifice when we are not talking about love and sacrifice. Once again you are using the Bible when you don't need to. Not everything needs to be answered with a Bible quote or a story about God's love. We all get that part already if we're here, ja? (Whether or not we believe it is another story). As for Jesus crying...that is a little off-topic, as is the men and emotions thing. Are you saying only men can be in control of their emotions, or that only men are expected to be in more control of them than women? And yes, men and women have different roles. Men can't have babies. But what can men do that women can't do? Other than be king, I mean.
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pacp
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Post by pacp on May 22, 2006 18:31:15 GMT -5
I would want the same in a woman. My equal...but we have different roles. We complement one and other. The shortest verse in the Bible is: "Jesus wept". Jesus cried..real men dry. But they are in control of their emotions and love isn't just emotion. It is self sacrifice. To die for one and other. There was a barn fire once near here. This old farmer walked into the barn afterward. He saw a black lump on the floor...so he goes over and kicks it. Well it was a mother duck. Its arms opened and out came 6 ducklings. That duck died for its ducklings. It wasn't narvana..or a feeling..so to say. It was to place your, or my , needs last...forever. Its represents God's love for us. Thats the relationship I would want to be in. Not one where a woman was trained to challenge me all the time. One where..we die for one another.....do you follow me?? I get what you are saying but once again you have gone off-subject. We aren't talking about love or sacrifice or ducks. It's a great story but it isn't a story that we need to hear in a thread about feminism. Not everything needs to be turned into a sermon about love and sacrifice when we are not talking about love and sacrifice. Once again you are using the Bible when you don't need to. Not everything needs to be answered with a Bible quote or a story about God's love. We all get that part already if we're here, ja? (Whether or not we believe it is another story). As for Jesus crying...that is a little off-topic, as is the men and emotions thing. Are you saying only men can be in control of their emotions, or that only men are expected to be in more control of them than women? And yes, men and women have different roles. Men can't have babies. But what can men do that women can't do? Other than be king, I mean. Well first off the Bible says the woman is the weaker vessel. So, no she can't control her emotions like a man. Look I love you guys but you never get it. All my stories....its about the outward working of the heart. No only do you believe in God. But do you trust Him. Would you follow Him even if your emotions and your intellect told you not to. The just will live not by sight but by faith. Are you saved, if you were to die tonight would you go to heaven. You must seek after the kingdom of heaven first and then all these things will follow.
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Post by rebecca01 on May 22, 2006 18:59:06 GMT -5
OOOOOOOOOOOKKK!!! You don't have to answer that.You preachers can just stick to talking to women about masterbation, THAT-A-WAY!!! I can figure this one out for myself, I just thought I would throw it out there. Ive been thinking of talking to this godly preacher I know of anyway and getting some sound advice...BUT PLEASE CARRY ON!!!
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Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 19:03:37 GMT -5
Lots to reply to. Wkufan: You were asked how the belief that people are "running around like dogs in heat" had anything to do with equality of the sexes. You prefaced your statement with "has a lot to do with it." I assumed you were making those statements as a commentary on feminism. If not, I apologize for the misunderstanding; you were simply being incongruous again. Jules: Oh, Jules. Where to begin. First of all, let me thank you. I just got back from the gym and as I was on my mat doing crunches, I thought about you, this board, and all the members here who think I am the "weaker vessel" and must submit to the men in my life. And I cranked out 100 more crunches than I thought I could have ever done. That right there, Jules? That was for you. Shame I didn't see pacp's latest post before I left. I could have done a thousand. I have heard of this book, though I have not read it, and unlike certain members here I will not make sweeping generalizations about a book without having read it myself (*cough*Biblethumper calling The Da Vinci Code "trash" without reading it *coughhack*). I can tell you that, based on your summary, it seems to be vastly incorrect in my life. I've dated men who are similar to both the extremes that you described, and who fall somewhere in between. (Yes, contrary to what pacp says, I have had successful relationships with men and am a feminist.) I can tell you which ones I hated. The so called "manly men." In fact, I remember one guy who lied to me about his views on roles of men and women to get me to date him. I found out quickly. Kicked him to the curb. I still laugh about him. What an idiot. As Xinny said, I would also like an equal who treats me as such--but I don't think that's what that book is advocating. It's like the guys who get huffy at women's history classes. Their definition of equality has been skewed by society, and is synonymous with "equality except I have the power." No. When we say "equality," oh hey, we actually meant equality. Personally, I hate the notion that women should be "feminine" and men should be "MANLY MEN." It's actually been proven that the most successful, well adjusted people possess traits typically associated with the traditional male AND female (i.e. androgynous). I have big, big problems with an unequal balance of power in any relationship--either way! I wouldn't want to boss a guy (or hell, a girl, if one comes along) around and keep him on a leash any more than I would want to be treated in such a way. You usually see me speaking out against inequity towards women because that's where it happens, nine times out of ten. But I am utterly opposed to the idea that men should "submit" to their girlfriends/wives/etc, too. Let's try this one more time, the readers' digest version: no one should be "submitting" to anyone! That is how I feel. I do not understand why many members here keep taking that to mean "women should rule over men." pacp: We don't care about your ducks. Also, stop double posting, please, it's really annoying. rebecca: You probably won't listen to me given my opinions on other issues, but I saw your post on the Pointers & Tips board. I'd just like to say that, from the little I know about the situation, I don't think it's right for your husband to tell you that you can't preach. This is a very serious issue so I do not want to say anything that will hit a nerve or cause you trouble, but I support your wishes. In my opinion, it's not a husband's place to tell his wife what she can and cannot do with her free time as long as it is not hurting anyone or illegal (vice versa is also true). Good luck with resolving this. I do not pray but I will be thinking about you. EDIT: It's okay, I'm sure that pacp just didn't see your question. No need to get upset. I personally don't think you need to listen to somebody who can't spell, anyway. Xinny: Ohh man, I can go off on the showing of the emotions thing. The world would be a much better place if more men believed that this was acceptable. Though I'm sure psychologists would have less work. Which I'm not sure if I'd support.
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Post by rebecca01 on May 22, 2006 19:10:01 GMT -5
Thanks Valentine! That's some of the best advice Ive had on this board.
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Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 19:16:00 GMT -5
^ I smell the Fundies coming to tell you how much you shouldn't listen to me and how I will teach you to walk the path of Satan, or something but, despite the rumors, I do occasionally have some sense. If you ever need any help, you can PM me, email me, or AIM me.
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pacp
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Post by pacp on May 22, 2006 19:49:02 GMT -5
^ I smell the Fundies coming to tell you how much you shouldn't listen to me and how I will teach you to walk the path of Satan, or something but, despite the rumors, I do occasionally have some sense. If you ever need any help, you can PM me, email me, or AIM me. "You all" may not be the kind that would ever participate in the sin of witchcraft. But the Bible says that the sin of unbelief is to the sin of witchcraft. Aleister Crowley's sin was unbelief....like many others. Once I had to rush a young girl to the hospital. She explained to me that she was a "cutter". She had slit her writs and was in need of immediate medical attention. Didn't want to wait while the blood spurted out of her very thin wrist so I drove her myself. (funny she didn't ask me how to spell wrist) Anyway, being stupefied as to how a young pretty college student could mutilate herself I asked, "why". She explained that she liked to make herself bleed so she could let the pain out and to make up for all the bad things she did. I told her that Christians believe that its the blood of Christ...that makes one free...covers up the bad things. She thanked me and I never saw her again. Some people take anti-depressants..others go into false religion....the Bible says all have gone a stray. Its always been a: 1) understanding, 2) repentance and 3) a DEPENDENCE in Jesus that saves. If God loves you more than the ducks and the kid with pausley and desires you to be set free. Why..why would you turn away and not trust Him. Today is the day of salvation..we don't know what tomorrow holds.
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Post by wkufan on May 22, 2006 20:02:00 GMT -5
Lots to reply to. Wkufan: If not, I apologize for the misunderstanding; you were simply being incongruous again.[) LOL! There you go again! No sweat
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shangxin
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 20:18:14 GMT -5
I get what you are saying but once again you have gone off-subject. We aren't talking about love or sacrifice or ducks. It's a great story but it isn't a story that we need to hear in a thread about feminism. Not everything needs to be turned into a sermon about love and sacrifice when we are not talking about love and sacrifice. Once again you are using the Bible when you don't need to. Not everything needs to be answered with a Bible quote or a story about God's love. We all get that part already if we're here, ja? (Whether or not we believe it is another story). As for Jesus crying...that is a little off-topic, as is the men and emotions thing. Are you saying only men can be in control of their emotions, or that only men are expected to be in more control of them than women? And yes, men and women have different roles. Men can't have babies. But what can men do that women can't do? Other than be king, I mean. Well first off the Bible says the woman is the weaker vessel. So, no she can't control her emotions like a man. Look I love you guys but you never get it. All my stories....its about the outward working of the heart. No only do you believe in God. But do you trust Him. Would you follow Him even if your emotions and your intellect told you not to. The just will live not by sight but by faith. --Good that you love me, but you guys sure tell us that a lot. Why do you need to keep saying it? --As for your stories...heart or no heart, it doesn't help THIS discussion. When I am with my friends and we are talking about animation I don't tell them about ducks. There is a time and a place. --I hope so, that I would trust Him without those other things. --Men hold in their emotions better because society tells them to. The end. In actuality, there is a theory that because men do not express themselves as well it results in the "men die before women" phenomenon that is a commonly known fact in most, of not all, countries around the world. As for women being the weaker vessel...look what I said above. Who dies first in virtually ever culture? Who is more apt to fight? Who is more apt to commit suicide? Who is more apt to rape? Men are more apt to do ALL of these things before women. How are women weaker?
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pacp
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Post by pacp on May 22, 2006 20:25:22 GMT -5
Zephaniah 2:10 This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified themselves against the people of the LORD of hosts.
Proverbs 21:4-4 4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.
Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Yep..thats what it is... pride, to proud to bow the heart to Christ.
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pacp
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Post by pacp on May 22, 2006 20:28:06 GMT -5
shangxin, I think God is tuging at yor heart. Pray that He shows you the right way to go. I enjoy talking to you .....and Valentine.....till tomorrow. -Peace...
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Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 20:28:21 GMT -5
See, Becca, I called it. Now, I think you're a smart woman, and I think you're capable of reasoning intelligently. Can you look over the last few replies and tell me who stayed on topic/addressed the issues presented...and who spouted nonsense?
Wkufan, umm, well....you said it.
Pacp, every time you mention I-Don't-Care Crowley, god kills a kitten. EDIT: AND THE 'MODIFY' BUTTON IS THERE FOR A REASON. STOP DOUBLE POSTING.
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shangxin
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 20:28:58 GMT -5
We are not talking about pride, pacp! I am not being proud. I am just saying that as a woman I do NOT like to be told that I am weaker, or that I am not as "good" at holding in my emotions.
And I give to you the evidence above to prove that men aren't as "strong willed" or "emotionaly capable" as you guys seem to think.
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Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 20:30:33 GMT -5
And I assert that "holding in your emotions" is NOT something to be proud of. That is weakness.
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shangxin
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 20:32:39 GMT -5
Indeed. What do men gain by holding in emotions? Other than manufacturing the appearance of strength I mean.
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Post by rebecca01 on May 22, 2006 22:25:49 GMT -5
Men, huh! That's why they have meetings like "Promise Keepers", to get back to ground "0".
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Post by valentine on May 23, 2006 9:27:48 GMT -5
Men, huh! That's why they have meetings like "Promise Keepers", to get back to ground "0". I had to do some research about PK awhile back when I was very concerned about a friend's safety. I didn't like what I found. It seems like a thinly-veiled attempt to abuse women, from what I read. I really hope you're not having trouble with that.
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pacp
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Post by pacp on May 23, 2006 15:59:53 GMT -5
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Post by rebecca01 on May 23, 2006 19:19:26 GMT -5
I have been reading alot about Maria Woodworth-Etter.She began her ministry in 1885.She had 6 kids but 5 died and her husband was deranged.She was discouraged because he did not have the desire for ministry to the point she became ill.He told her she couldn't preach but God gave her a vision of her preaching and sheaves falling over, so she preached and the power of God fell.
You will never hear about these women unless you literally search it out for yourself.I couldn't believe it when I read her story because I have 5 kids and my husband has no heart for ministry at all yet I have the desire to serve the Lord.Just like Moses though I told the Lord if you don't come with me Im not going.I really don't care if I just work in a soup kitchen.
God gave me Psalm 18, and I can see things happening at my work that it's hard to explain.It says in psalm 18 "that the strangers shall submit themselves to you".I am a really hard worker and I stand out above the rest-not being proud.I figure if Im not allowed to serve the Lord the way I want than Im going to work my way to the top at my place of employment,but I give God all of the glory and I share my faith at work.Now Im being promoted and whenever I see that something needs to be done a certain way everyone listens to me.My husband has an associates degree and has tried for fifteen years to get promoted and hasn't been able to.All I have is a high school diploma and I have all of the executives listening to me, but it's all the Lord.
When the power of God is working in your life no one can stop you even if they throw you in a prison like Joseph.
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shangxin
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Post by shangxin on May 23, 2006 21:57:28 GMT -5
Great story, rebecca. No one should stop anyone from their desires to help others or do good. Good knows no gender. And I researched PK with valentine. Sounds like one of those awful religious cults that abuse women to me too. We were very displeased.
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